HORNADY Lock & load Progressive Ammo factory

[Rammit]

I was wary of the hornady, I went dillon myself, I just find accessories more readily available especially used. This is the first time ive really heard of major issues with the lock and load

 

[Kevatc]

I've been an LnL guy now for 7-8 years. Overall I like it pretty well. My only other experience was with a Lee progressive and it did receive the sledgehammer treatment after awhile. It was such a pile 'o junk I actually smiled tossing it into the local landfill. I like the Hornady customer service, dies, bushings, and the ease in changing calibers. I am frustrated with the case retaining springs going kinky on me. I keep several around so its not a big deal to replace them. I also get frustrated with the priming system. Like mjbskwim I have had my fair share of powder spills due to primers not getting put into the primer slide. I hand prime my brass. In doing so I am able to crank out rounds at a pretty good clip. I had the original shell ejection wire setup. When Hornady came out with the modification now in use on their newer presses I sent my press and shell plates in for the modification. The new shell ejection system is much better. It ejects 223 and 45 smoothly and reliably but for some reason every single 40 case gets hung up. No matter how much I've tried to finesse 40's they just won't eject properly.

With my reloading methods I can crank out several hundred rounds in a 2 hour reloading session.

One thing I would advise for any new LnL user is to follow the Hornday advice and clean all the dies and the powder system with the Hornday dry lube spray. It will make things run smoothly and save some frustration. Every 1000 rounds or so take the powder system apart and clean it real good.

 

[speedtriple]

Can someone post a photo of how/where these hubs are breaking? It is hard for me to imagine how they are breaking with purely vertical force. I never lube my .40. 9, 45 acp, or .380. I just use carbide dies with well cleaned brass. I do of course lube my .223 and the very few .308 win. I have come close to sticking a few pistol and rifle cases, but they always have pulled out with a bit of armstrong force.

On another topic, how often does everyone lube the grease points on the L&L AP ?

 

[mjbskwim]

Man I forgot about this thread.
I have been doing so many other things I haven't put my powder measure back together yet!
Tell ya what kevatc,Imma gunna take the emery cloth to the primer slide and a few other parts,before I start up again.
I have about 3k round of brass just waiting to be loaded,so I need to start "the plant" (har,har) up again

 

[asorum]

Can someone post a photo of how/where these hubs are breaking? It is hard for me to imagine how they are breaking with purely vertical force.

The hub is made of two parts, a casting and a machined insert. The insert is pressed into the casting to a depth of about half of its height. The casting split across the casting at this half way point. Mine broke on the very first .223 case that I tried to resize. I will try to post a picture of it after work.

When I bought this press, I also bought a new set of Hornady dies for .223. I put the Hornady die on my Rockchucker press and noticed is that the die's expander plug has a lot more friction coming out of the case neck after resizing compared to my RCBS die. I may need to look at lubing the necks of the brass.

 

[MarkAd]

rifle cases need lubing. Unlike pistol dies rifle dies are not carbide. And this reminds mew I need to order some metering inserts.

 

[asorum]

rifle cases need lubing. Unlike pistol dies rifle dies are not carbide.

Thanks for the hint. What I was talking about was lubing the inside of the neck. Have never had to do that before, the hub broke with an externally lubed case.

 

[deadshot2]

Thanks for the hint. What I was talking about was lubing the inside of the neck. Have never had to do that before, the hub broke with an externally lubed case.

Most rifle sizing dies need some form of lube on the inside of the neck to reduce the "pull out" force. Lee, and some others have made progress on expanders of a longer taper that are easier than the old ball type to pull out but even they can "squeak". Depending on whether I'm going to immediately load the case or put into the cleaning process, I'll either use ground mica or just a dab of Unique case lube on the inside of the neck. If one doesn't use any lube, and the expander sticks, it's possible to distort the case you just sized. Exception to all that is the Lee Collet Die which merely reforms the neck against a mandrel.

 

[motoman98]

The REAL solution here, is to buy dies or the retro kit; that deletes the steel expander 'ball'. Redding, and RCBS, Dillon and others make such. That steel expander ball is and has been a bad idea and a carbide expander ball solves the problem.

 

[OreShooter]

Interesting thread alright.

+1 to what speedtriple has advised. If you keep powder build up out of the primer ram area with a quick blast of air it should feed primers just fine.

Now if your pawls aren't adjusted right, then you will have what you seem to have experienced, that is about every third or fourth primer won't feed right, or will feed with a kerchunk sound, and you will find that it will not feed primers reliably. Study the manual. I had to go at it a couple times to make sure I understood the mechanics, but once I got it I haven't changed it since. (3500 rounds ago?)

I agree with coyoteman5 about the priming. Until you figure out the primer thing here is a suggestion; It is what I do for my cast bullet loads. I decap and size, then I clean the brass and prime. In your case use a Lee Auto Prime or the single stage press variety, the Auto Prime II. Since my primers go in just fine with the LNL, I then run them through and prime them on the LNL.

OK, somebody's going nuts out there already at all this work, but honestly it doesn't take long at all. And if you're one of those well-heeled LNL owners with a case feeder it's really cake. There's a reason for this madness. I prefer to use a universal case expanding die (Lee) and a powder cop die (RCBS). I put the powder measure in station 1, 2 gets the powder cop, 3 gets the case expander, 4 gets the seat die (no crimp) and 5 gets factory crimp die (Lee).

Now if you're loading jacketed bullets then you are one station simpler that's all.

Using this setup I can load 3 grains of bullseye and have the assurance of the powder cop die.

Regarding your cleaning of the primer tubes and primers falling down them, I can't imagine what is going on there. I have only cleaned mine with the dry lube spray. Gravity works for me on a regular basis. I think you are more likely experiencing a failure to feed at the bottom of the primer tube and primer slide. Do as speedtriple suggested. I even went a step further and filed down the overall thickness of the slide with a file a couple of thou, then I polished it up with steel wool like MarkAd suggested. Be sure and round over the edges on the bottom just so they aren't "sharp" and can't "catch" on anything, (as if there is something there to catch on). Slips along now like a greased pig. Check for any burrs at the bottom of your primer tube at the mouth. You can take a pocket knife and round over the corners a little to help.

Hope things smooth out for you.

 

[XSubSailor]

OK, somebody's going nuts out there already at all this work, but honestly it doesn't take long at all. And if you're one of those well-heeled LNL owners with a case feeder it's really cake. There's a reason for this madness. I prefer to use a universal case expanding die (Lee) and a powder cop die (RCBS). I put the powder measure in station 1, 2 gets the powder cop, 3 gets the case expander, 4 gets the seat die (no crimp) and 5 gets factory crimp die (Lee).

I guess I'm one of those guys going nuts...

You mention sizing and de-priming prior to case cleaning? If you want to minimize wear and maximize the life of your sizing die, I'd recommend against running dirty brass through any die. What reason is there to size/de-prime prior to tumbling?

You can get rid of the expander die completely by using a powder-thru-expander (PTX) in the same station as your powder measure. This will allow you to use a powder cop (or lockout die) and still have a station available for a separate crimp die.

Station 1: Size/Deprime
Station 2: Expand(w/PTX) and powder drop
Station 3: Powder cop (or lockout die)
Station 4: Seat
Station 5: Crimp

 

[OreShooter]

I guess I'm one of those guys going nuts...

Station 1: Size/Deprime
Station 2: Expand(w/PTX) and powder drop
Station 3: Powder cop (or lockout die)
Station 4: Seat
Station 5: Crimp

Yes you have listed a setup I also have used. And PTX works OK. I have gotten away from using the PTX because I consider it too much to fuss with when I want to rock and roll on a few boxes. (I change back and forth from different calibers and jacketed and cast) With a designated case mouth expander die like the Lee I just pop it into a slot and I am ready to go. Also, with pre-primed brass I have gotten out of the way the only thing that can slow me down.

One of the things I left out is that I use the micrometer rotor on the measure. That is really a sweet tool. Once you know your weight and have it recorded you just dial up the charge for that powder and go. (I of course always check it for a few drops. If I popped open a new can of powder then the setting has to be verified also.)

As far as sizer die wear, I have never seen a die worn out or heard of one. Even if this is possible, I guess my take on it is that Lee would make another $15 off me for a replacement.

 

[mjbskwim]

OrerShooter,this is all good and well,but the LNL says there is no need for this with the ammo manufacturing plant.
I didn't pay 1k to have to do 14 different steps to get it to work.
Not taking away from your advise.Re/handloaders are a very helpful lot.Much appreciated.

That was the point of this thread.To show that the "MP" isn't exactly that.
I just want Hornady and buyers to know what may occur with the LNL press

YMMV

 

[XSubSailor]

OrerShooter,this is all good and well,but the LNL says there is no need for this with the ammo manufacturing plant.
I didn't pay 1k to have to do 14 different steps to get it to work.
Not taking away from your advise.Re/handloaders are a very helpful lot.Much appreciated.

That was the point of this thread.To show that the "MP" isn't exactly that.
I just want Hornady and buyers to know what may occur with the LNL press

YMMV

Just curious, where did you find the terms "ammo factory" or "manufacturing plant?" I've never seen it in any Hornady sales literature. The only press I've seen that could be classified as an "ammo factory" is a fully loaded Dillion 1050

Also, be aware that Dillon, RCBS, Lee or any other progressive presses have their quirks and hiccups too...I have the means to buy any press I want and after a lot of research, I chose the LnL with full knowledge of its various quirks. If you have a good grasp of mechanics, you can fix/overcome any of these without too much frustration IMO. If an individual lacks the knowledge and patience to address these types of issues...purchasing factory ammo is probably more appropriate than involving oneself with reloading.

Just my $.02

 

[mjbskwim]

Again the whole idea of buying this system was to have a progressive press that worked from the factory and didn't need a bunch of tweeking.And I'm not talking adjustment here,I'm talking constant tweeking.Maybe mine was a friday piece?
Something that ran like the ultimate reloader's system .Just and components and you have ammo
But that just me,thinking I could spend $1000+- to have a running press

How silly of to think that.

As far as the term,they were in some video someplace.You can run thru all the hordany videos and find it.Or maybe not.

 

[deadshot2]

Just curious, where did you find the terms "ammo factory" or "manufacturing plant?" I've never seen it in any Hornady sales literature.

Check out this "description" on Midway's site. Lock-N-Load AP Progressive Press Ammo Plant 110 Volt

FWIW, the "copy" is exactly the same as Hornady's on their website showing this "plant".

The Hornady Lock-N-Load Ammo Plant turns any reloading bench into the ultimate reloading factory. This kit combines all of the innovative features found on the Lock-N-Load AP including automatic indexing and 5 die stations with the Hornady automatic bullet feeder and automatic case feeder.

The Lock-N-Load APpress features include; Lock-N-Load quick change technology, fully automatic indexing, 5-station die platform that accepts standard 7/8"-14 threaded dies, and the EZ-ject System that delivers 100% reliable cartridge ejection. This press is capable of loading rifle and handgun cartridges with ease.

Sure sounds like they think it's an Ammo Factory.

BTW, the last line is a little misleading. According to the Hornady website, as of today the rifle bullet feeder is still "coming soon"

NOTE: Bullet Feeder is designed for use with jacketed or plated pistol bullets only. *Rifle adapter coming soon!

This reminds me of back during the "copier wars" when everyone claimed to be "as good as a Xerox" but always came up a little short of the real thing.

No doubt Hornady will get things worked out if they want to. Dillon has had been developing, fine tuning, and improving their presses for many decades now. I guess it all boils down to what one wants, something that has "potential" or something that's already there.

 

[XSubSailor]

Not to get into a Blue v. Red pissing contest, but Dillon doesn't make a bullet feeder for ANY of their presses. Aftermarket Mr. Bullet and GSR feeders for the Dillon 650 cost about $500 and are caliber specific. Hornady's cost about $250 and changing caliber costs about $25 to swap the bullet feeding die.

I'd say that Hornady started innovating where Dillon left off...I've tried both and prefer the Hornady w/ the exception of the case feeder. Dillon definitely has them beat there, but the LnL bushing system, priming system (that only expends a primer when a case is present), the spent primer collection tube, half-position indexing system, shellplate case retaining spring (no brass buttons), etc, are innovations that are "already there" on the LnL and lacking on the Dillon presses after "many decades" of development, fine-tuning and improvement...

just sayin...

 

[deadshot2]

Not to get into a Blue v. Red pissing contest, but Dillon doesn't make a bullet feeder for ANY of their presses. Aftermarket Mr. Bullet and GSR feeders for the Dillon 650 cost about $500 and are caliber specific. Hornady's cost about $250 and changing caliber costs about $25 to swap the bullet feeding die.

You're correct. HOWEVER---Hornady still doesn't have a rifle bullet feeder. The largest volume rifle round and they can't feed bullets for it, the .223.

As for "innovations" perhaps they only "innovate" because another manufacturer has the Patent on the methods that work.

Yes, Dillon is lacking in the primer collection department but one can purchase a simple and inexpensive solution from Unique-Tek.

 

[XSubSailor]

You're correct. HOWEVER---Hornady still doesn't have a rifle bullet feeder. The largest volume rifle round and they can't feed bullets for it, the .223.

As for "innovations" perhaps they only "innovate" because another manufacturer has the Patent on the methods that work.

Yes, Dillon is lacking in the primer collection department but one can purchase a simple and inexpensive solution from Unique-Tek.

RCBS has a rifle bullet feeder, and Hornady will soon...and you'll be able to use it on your Dillon press (which is good because Dillon doesn't offer a bullet feeder...in ANY caliber). As far as patents are concerned, all of Dillon's patents have long since expired...they haven't made anything new in over 20 yrs.

 

[deadshot2]

RCBS has a rifle bullet feeder, and Hornady will soon...and you'll be able to use it on your Dillon press (which is good because Dillon doesn't offer a bullet feeder...in ANY caliber). As far as patents are concerned, all of Dillon's patents have long since expired...they haven't made anything new in over 20 yrs.

Those of us who wanted to use a bullet feeder have for years been using the K.I.S.S. which is now the Mr. Bullet.

As for the Hornady rifle bullet feeder, it's been "Comming Soon" for some time now. Wonder when they'll change their info to "Now Here"?