Hornady lnl ap powder measure issue

Discussion in 'Ammunition & Reloading' started by Eveskcige28, Aug 9, 2018.

  1. Eveskcige28

    Eveskcige28
    Rochester wa
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    So I recently bought a used lnl ap press from a member on here, and when I started loading 223 a few months back and have had this problem intermittently. If I use any sort of stick powder the powder measure seems to jam and it destroys the mouth of the case. Some throws go effortlessly other are near impossible. Is my powder measure defective? Am I doing something wrong? I found I can relieve the pressure on the case mouth by pushing the arm up. Help me out here guys. Experience or suggestions greatly appreciated! Here's a picture of the outcome.... 20180809_113839.jpg
     
  2. Eveskcige28

    Eveskcige28
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    I'll also add that inside the measure the casting seems low quality and rough 20180809_114956.jpg
     
  3. SKrueger

    SKrueger
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    I am sure you will get plenty of advice from members here. I know @Dyjital and a bunch of others load all the time. I'm just getting into reloading so looking forward to seeing the outcome.
     
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  4. Ura-Ki

    Ura-Ki
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    Havn't run into the problem your having, so I'm no help there! As to the insides of your measure, I wouldn't be too worried about it unless your throwing a high volume of charges, then a tap on the measure with your hand is usually enough to loosen the powder from the body and get it flowing! You could take a sanding roll on a dremel tool and follow it up with some finer sand paper, but unless you see obvious signs of powder "Hanging Up" I wouldn't bother! Conversely, you could spray the rough area with a coat or two of engine paint and use a heat gun to cure it! Good Luck, I'm curious to hear what the causes are here that your having!
     
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  5. P7id10T

    P7id10T
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    There are several things that can affect this:
    1. There are several funnels for the cases. You need one with the smaller diameter (223) that is not an aggressive funnel (i.e. more flat and less of an inside cone).
    2. The return spring can be too herky. I'm sitting in an airport, otherwise I'd get a photo to you.
      Looking at the press, when you run the ram up with a case in the powder station, you will see the lever arm on the dispenser rise up. The spring that is attached to that is pretty beefy, and you can get by with much less. Ran into a problem with it and all I had were postal office rubber bands (the ones they sometimes stick around your mail). Used two, and it worked GREAT. Not long after, found a good, lighter spring in my junk bin and have never changed it out.
    3. Your feeder is set too low. Back it out by unscrewing it from the mount socket. You want full the swing arm to be it's full travel ONLY at full ram extension.
    4. Check your feed. With stick powder, I get the "stuckage" when a kernel tries to prevent the rotation of the dispenser arm, but it's never enough to make a problem. If your powder has high static, you could be having a bunch of kernels sticking together.
    Funny you think that. In food processing feed applications, we deliberately used rough surfaces to minimize product sticking to the surfaces and static effect. Gunk slides off a rough surface easier than a smooth one, especially when it's been sitting in a hopper.

    Only one thing that has stopped me on the LnL - loading 308, got a case stuck. Gave the ram a hard push to "unstick" the case and snapped the investment cast indexing head. Called Hornady, they mailed me a replacement free, had it in my hands two days later. Maybe not as stout as a 650, certainly not as complicated, and if you treat it right, it will purr for you.
     
  6. Dyjital

    Dyjital
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    Well then...

    You’ve got yourself quite a mess.

    First issue I tend to see is what appears that you are trying to put crimp and seat the bullet at the same time.

    I’d suggest turning off your seating die so it’s not touching the case mouth.

    Second is that it sounds like your powder measure is not aligned properly for being fully opened when the case actuated it.

    Not ALL powders should be thrown in a volume powder measure. Stick for example can cause the crushing of the case mouth but.... I still think there can be some adjustment to the tool behind the lever. If the case doesn’t go up smooth, don’t force it.

    I have a habit of running my case up into my powder measure and if resistance is felt before I know it’s fully inserted, I’ll lower it down ¼”, jiggle the handle and then run it up again.

    You aren’t dealing with an infaliable piece of equipment. I wouldn’t worry about smoothing out the inside of the hopper. If the dispenser drops consistent volumes, leave it alone.


    $.02
     
  7. P7id10T

    P7id10T
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    Dang dude, I didn't look at the photos.
    upload_2018-8-9_16-35-6.png
     
  8. ageingstudent

    ageingstudent
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    Are you positive the powder measure station is causing this? I agree with @P7id10T it looks like a seating issue. Are you getting a good chamfer on the inside of the case neck to get a good, straight start for the base of the bullet? Plain base or boat-tail? Also like @Dyjital suggested, back off the crimp while seating. I've never had a powder measure station wreck a case like that. Can you run one round at a time on the lnl to focus on each station looking for the issue? I have no experience with that machine.
     
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  9. scrandall01215

    scrandall01215
    Yacolt, WA
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    I would say you don’t have it set up properly. I used to have different little things go wrong with mine until I found this guy 76 Highboy ( mine runs great now)he goes thru the set up of the LnL from top to bottom there is a video on the powder measure that should solve your problems. I think there is six different videos
    It looks like a seating issue too me as well!!!

    Hornady LNL AP Press Set Up Hints and Tricks, Complete Video Series

    Stacy
     
  10. gmerkt

    gmerkt
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    My first look at those crushed cases has me wondering how this can possibly be an issue with powder metering. Maybe I've missed something. Those crushed and folded case necks look like an issue with chamfer inside the case mouth. Or lack of it, so the heels of the bullets can't transition into the case. Instead they catch on the sharp edge of the case and force it downward.

    The picture of the interior of the powder meter (measure) casting, that is perfectly normal.
     
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  11. Eveskcige28

    Eveskcige28
    Rochester wa
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    I appreciate all the replies. I should have mentioned my throw of the measure is all set correctly and it isn't the crimp. I crimp separately from seating. And I do have a good even chamfer. I am however using flat hand bullets so that doesn't help me any. The 2 cases on the left in the picture happened when charging, the rotation of the drum binds. I will do what dyjital says and jiggle the 1/4" of the ram, and try to use a little more finesse. I was hoping somebody would have a magical fix. Although I will try to see if a lighter spring may help.
     
  12. Dyjital

    Dyjital
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    What’s the diameter of your expander ball? Have you measured it?

    Take expander out of die, size neck only.

    What’s the inside diameter of your case mouth? Curious how far down it’s sizing your brass and if the expander isn’t opening it back up enough. ?????? :eek:

    What’s diameter of case mouth after sized and ran through expander?

    I’ve had some expander balls shrink to where my bullet seating was doing the same thing. RCBS replaced it and never had another issue. It called for .222” and mine was .218”. No more crushed case mouths.

    We’re all here to help. Collective idiots sometimes though.
     
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  13. v0lcom13sn0w

    v0lcom13sn0w
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    i agree with @Dyjital

    back off the seat die a bit so it doesnt crimp as hard. seems like the die is too low in the press. also, i think you should measure your expander
     
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  14. Eveskcige28

    Eveskcige28
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    I'll have to measure the expander. That's a really good idea! The die set I got was used so it very well could be worn out. Thanks again I'll check and report back tomorrow.
     
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  15. ConcernedCitizen

    ConcernedCitizen
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    #1 easy fix: Switch to ball powder!
    :s0157:

    Biggest question for me is how the damaged cases made it from the powder measure to the seating die without you noticing. No offense, but you might want to up your QC a little.

    It's possible that the edges of the powder measure drum are dull enough that they can't cut cleanly through any powder kernals that get stuck halfway. Have you pulled the drum to inspect the edges of the bore?

    There are also different length inserts for the powder drop, and I believe they are directional in how they go in. I'd pull apart the powder drop and look for any burrs or signs of excess wear. It could be the drop hanging up, not the drum.

    Lastly, how far up does the metering screw go at the top of the press stroke? Any chance it's hitting the body of the powder measure before you reach the top of the stroke? I'm guessing not, since you say you can relieve pressure by lifting it manually, but it's still something I would double check just to be safe.

    If you can feel the powder measure bind up, why are you forcing it to the point of damaging brass? If something doesn't feel right, stop and find out why. Don't just force things! :s0057:

    On the bright side, Hornady does have an excellent warranty policy!
    :s0155:
     
  16. Eveskcige28

    Eveskcige28
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    I know it looks like I'm man handling everything and too am extremely I am... the one that have bullets "seated" I noticed those cases have a reverse bevel but it was severe so I tried seating anyways. I am always very careful about qc. And I have checked allthe inerds of the measure multiple times for extra slop or burs in the machining that could makes things hang up. I do think I may switch to ball powder if I cant find another solution. The press runs flawlessly when running unique for pistols...
     
  17. Eveskcige28

    Eveskcige28
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    I just checked the expander back in the doe and it's measuring at .219 so I'll haveto replace that
     
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  18. IRY

    IRY
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    By chance did you run the brass through seat die which could have slightly crimped the brass. I have done that! I recently sized then trimmed my brass, but I forgot to remove my seating die while I was running the brass through!
     
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  19. Dyjital

    Dyjital
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    Sounds like that’s part of the issue right there!
     
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  20. Greenbug

    Greenbug
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    Looks to me like something is crimping the case mouth before a bullet is seated. Sounds like the wrong size drop tube insert or incorrectly adjusted powder die station. You should be able to "feel" where this problem is happening. Run one case, and one case only! through the press paying attention to the feel at each station until you find resistance. The station with the resistance is your problem.

    Don't forget to chamfer your case mouths also.... You are working a progressive, so you'll have to do this before you put the fired brass in the first station...

    You might check to make sure you have uniform case lengths before you start your loading process also. Some short cases will be unaffected by improperly adjusted dies/powder measures and the longer cases will definitely be affected more adversely in relation to how long they are.
     
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