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Hornady has no integrity

Discussion in 'Ammunition & Reloading' started by casper10804, Aug 19, 2013.

  1. casper10804

    casper10804 Washington New Member

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    I bought a box of Hornady "Critical Defense" ammunition for my Ruger GP100 back in late 2011. Fired off 6 rounds. They cycled and fired fine, however when it came time to eject the casings they were all jammed rock solid and I had to use a wooden dowel to get them out. I planned to call Hornady at the time and complain but I went through a move and lost my box of ammo until recently. Well I found the box of ammo this week and did a google search of the lot number and guess what? Numerous people on numerous forums had the same problems with their guns with Hornady's Critical Defense ammunition. Every time they called Hornady to complain they got the same respone "We'll send you a shipping label to send the ammo in so we can test it to find out what if anything is wrong with the ammo" This happened with several lot numbers of Critical Defense and always the same response were they play dumb. Never any recalls. This is serious because many people like myself intended to use Hornady's ammo for self defense and stuck ammo is not acceptable, especially when Hornady knows about it and does not issue a recall. What really pulled at my nerves today August 2013 is when I called Hornady and told them my story and provided the lot number...they gave me the same speel they gave callers from 2 years ago! They told m the whole line about sending a shipping label out and they will test the ammo to see what if anything is wrong with it. I wanted to share this experience with you all because this is not plinking ammo and you need to know how shady Hornady is. BTW here is the lot number on the ammunition I bought: Lot#3110983 Hornady Critical Defense 357 MAG 125gr FTX.
    Who knows they might have fixed this problem, BUT the shady way they handled the mess by playing dumb with each caller to complain about the ammo and not issuing a recall and leaving ammo that they know is bad in the hands of people that count on it for their lives is pretty dirty for such a popular company. Go ahead and google that lot number if you'd like and you'll see all the problems. Anyways sorry for the rant but figured that this isn't something I should sit on and need to share.
     
  2. deadshot2

    deadshot2 NW Quadrant WA State Well-Known Member

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    Sounds like they're pretty straight forward. You think your problem is EXACTLY like everyone elses? They don't and want to see YOUR ammo.

    My dealings with Hornady are very pleasant. Even got a free hat from them for sending some cases along with a returned shell holder that was too small for the caliber listed. The sent me a new one free of charge, paid the shipping back to them (sent a UPS shipping label) and all is great.


    BTW, the problem you describe is often a firearm problem. "Defense Loads" tend to be hot and any roughness in the chamber can cause the case to stick.

    FWIW I used to do a lot of "Customer Service Work". Behind my desk was a sign that said "Results may vary based on the Customer's Attitude". Funny how that works.

    Try the friendly approach and you too may get a free hat.
     
  3. DieselScout

    DieselScout S Clackamas County Well-Known Member

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    Personally I think you're getting worked up over nothing. First how much ammo was produced in that lot, do you know? Are we talking millions or rounds or thousands? What percentage may have a problem?

    Regardless Hornady is offering an you an opportunity to make it right. You can ship it back on their dime and they will replace it. I can't say enough positive about Hornady's customer service. I had a .22-250 that had an over pressure in my rifle. I called Hornady and they sent me a shipping label yo send the ammo back. I shipped back the box and a week later then called to tell me the ammo fired within spec and they measure my spent cartridges and found my chamber was I. Spec but tight. I checked the chamber and found dirt in the chamber. Hornady shipped me TWO new boxes of ammo for my trouble even though it wasn't their fault and I only shipped them one box to begin with. They earned a customer for life from that exchange.
     
  4. ma96782

    ma96782 Vancouver, WA Well-Known Member

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    Had this been a "gunsmith" forum I'd bet you would have been told to clean the chambers. Especially if you have used 38 special ammo in it. And, if that didn't work, you may have/would have also been advised to perhaps further inspect the chambers (for correct size) and/or advised to attempt a polish of the chambers.

    As for ammo........well yes, that could also be a problem too. I'd send the ammo back, since it's on their dime. Maybe, they just need to hit some "magic number" for complaints.........before/if a recall is to be generated?

    Aloha, Mark
     
  5. jluck

    jluck Really,Really, Close to Newport Oregon 97365 Voted #1 Member

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    Maybe your old mail box is full of shipping labels.
     
  6. P7id10T

    P7id10T Cedar Hills Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    Send them your ammo and see what you get.
    It's for very valid reasons they do not issue a recall or get their knickers in a twist over it. The stuff probably is within SAMMI specs and as such, they are doing what's right. While you're at it you may want to inspect and/or polish your cylinders.
    Good luck.

    K.I.S.S.
     
  7. FORKLIFT252

    FORKLIFT252 Oregon Active Member

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    I would bet plenty of in scrupulous dirt bags call all the time crying about ammo...just to get a free box...
     
  8. jonn5335

    jonn5335 Longview Active Member

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    I agree with Mark.

    As far as my own experience with Hornady. I've had to order parts for my press twice that I admittedly broke in no way hornady's fault and I have had nothing but excellent customer service and I have never been charged for parts or shipping.
     
  9. Tomas204

    Tomas204 Oregon City Member

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    Hornady is great, they always take care of their customers, dirty gun's stick cases :rolleyes:, so make sure your is clean JMHO
     
  10. SBC97281

    SBC97281 Oregon Active Member

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    I have never any issues with any Hornady ammunition so have never dealt with their customer service. But it sounds like they are being more generous than very fair.

    I have found my Ruger revolvers can hold on to cases when they are exceptionally dirty.
     
  11. AMProducts

    AMProducts Maple Valley, WA Jerk, Ammo Manufacturer Silver Supporter

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    There can be a variety of problems that will cause cartridges to stick... a big one here since hornady makes all it's own brass is the possibility that the brass was simply too soft.

    So I'm curious, beyond sending you a shipping label was any other action taken?

    Ammunition lots can be assembled from a variety of lots of components, including powder, primers, brass and bullets. Tracking down exactly which component is the issue can be a matter of contention, and it's entirely possible that they only pumped (advanced) lot numbers based on some arbitrary setting of the loading machine, and did not track the component lots. This may mean the total number of people affected by this bad lot was small, however since you were affected it's significant for you, but it didn't warrant a wider recall.

    I've always found hornady to have "adequate" customer service, it's never been great, and it's never been bad. Between the design of their dies, and the lack of great customer support, this is a major reason why I do not recommend hornady dies. I've always found their brass to be of great quality, but I usually prefer other vendors for bullets (sierra, berger, barnes). No snipe against them on this front, I just never found their bullets to be that innovative.
     
  12. deadshot2

    deadshot2 NW Quadrant WA State Well-Known Member

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    Is there any company out there, especially those that are enjoying great success with their products, that you do like?

    For a bullet that's according to you not very innovative, please explain the popularity of the v-max and a-max bullets. So popular in fact that they are almost totally unavailable today and have flown off the shelves even before the shortages hit.
     
    taroman and (deleted member) like this.
  13. AMProducts

    AMProducts Maple Valley, WA Jerk, Ammo Manufacturer Silver Supporter

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    You mean their copies of the Nosler ballistic tip? :) I think the only thing they've managed to do with the amax and vmax is produce them in enough quantity to make the prices low enough, nosler makes good bullets, but they're expensive. I think the one thing hornady did right was put out the GMX bullet for the magnum .30 cals, however it's still taking an idea from barnes, and an idea from Nosler, who came out with the E-tip a few years beforehand.

    Sierra makes good quality products at very reasonable prices, and has done a fair amount to stay current. I think if there's anyone out there who is really pushing the envelope on ballistics development it's sierra. Hell, look at their loading manual, I think phone books in my home town are smaller. The main thing sierra hasn't really done much with is game bullets, but that's not their core market nor is it a significant portion of the total ammunition market. Target shooters will always shoot more ammo than hunters.

    Barnes is another one of my favorite companies, but for the exact opposite reasons as sierra. They make some of my favorite hunting bullets, the TSX has become my go-to bullet for hunting hogs in california and texas. The varmint grenade and MPG have become my first choice for coyote. I have never had to use a second bullet to "finish the job" on any animal, and I like to keep it that way. A major reason for moving to the TSX for this use is the standard soft points were simply destroying too much good meat, and not penetrating deep enough to guarantee a quick kill on hog, even with .308, with the TSX I started using .223 and it gave performance that was well in excess of what .308 soft points were capable of.

    Berger is another one of those companies that's doing a lot of innovative stuff with their bullet designs. While they're marketing more towards long range shooters, it puts them in a different class than sierra. The main problem with berger is the cost, since I don't shoot palma any more, it's hard to spring for the extra cost of the VLDs.

    I do have a large stock of once fired hornady brass I stumbled onto at a range that I've been hoarding for loading more match ammo, I definitely prefer it over federal or winchester brass. As I said in my previous post, I think this is the one product line hornady does, and does well.
     
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  14. Gaucho Gringo

    Gaucho Gringo Vancouver, WA Well-Known Member

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    I wonder about some people. A free hat is more important than dependable ammo? Remind me not to invite you where my life is on the line. On second thought I will gladly have you, the bad guys attention will be on the guy dancing around that he got a free hat from Hornady and that will give me a chance to escape.
     
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  15. Stevenav

    Stevenav Redmond Active Member

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    AMP,

    You brought up some points there that are precisely why I wish you'd make a 40 gr or 35 grain jacketed boat tail 224 round. Because hornady is the only one I've found that works well in my 5.7 reloads... and frankly I'd love not to give Hornady my business since they're what FNH uses for their 5.7x28 rounds.

    I'd love to give you my business... (take my money already lol) :D
     
  16. deadshot2

    deadshot2 NW Quadrant WA State Well-Known Member

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    If you were referring to my post, I got the free hat in regards to there customer service regarding a reloading tool. When it comes to factory ammo, I don't trust anyone's as much as I trust my own.
     
  17. humdrum

    humdrum Lakewood Active Member

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    It's true that shooting .38's before .357's can create a "ring" of lead and fouling in the chambers of a revolver that increase the chance of cases getting stuck, and Rugers can have tight throats and chambers that can lead-up if not cleaned, but who knows if that was a part of the issue.

    I think the biggest issue is bashing a reputable company before even giving them the chance to make it right. It is not-okay in my eyes, to decline return shipping on a product after calling to complain, and then turning to a public forum to try and smear a company. Unless the OP works for Federal, I don't see how that is productive, or how it will add to solving the original problem.

    Hornady has done more than enough good for our sport during this recent panic, and as a whole. Give them the opportunity to make it right - unless, of course, there is something to hide on the OP's end - like lack of maintenance or lead-fouling, maybe?

    I would like to see how Hornady rectifies this incident. We'll be patient, but please don't start a thread down-talking Ruger in the meantime.
     
  18. deadshot2

    deadshot2 NW Quadrant WA State Well-Known Member

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    Even if they do work for Federal I can't see how that would be productive. I do know that if they did and their employer found out about it there'd be consequences for them.
     
  19. AMProducts

    AMProducts Maple Valley, WA Jerk, Ammo Manufacturer Silver Supporter

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    I'm totally interested in doing it, however it's going to be run on the new machines rather than interrupting the current production.
     
  20. Ron Summers

    Ron Summers Springfield, OR New Member

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    I've found Hornady ammo and bullets to be less than satisfactory.