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Unless you live in a mansion, you are going to get baseball sized groups with standard barrel lengths and loads at home defense distances.

With the open choke I get half the large target's chest pierced with twenty .25 pellets (#3 20ga) at 10 yards. If by home defense distances you mean 5 yards, then I agree with you, but it is hard to miss at 5 yards even with a pistol.

Not saying pump would be ineffective, but semi auto is a viable option, and you have the opportunity to dump much more lead if you need to.

Pumps can be very, very fast in trained hands. I shoot+pump+reacquire as a single complex motion. However, it is not a sport; dumping too much lead too fast has its drawbacks too - you are increasing the chances of collateral damage and you are completely wasting your hearing. Hearing is 1 of the 5 reasons to live.

There are some other pros as well to semi auto's.

To me the major pro is the reduced recoil (and therefore faster target re-acquisition). However, 20ga with a Knoxx stock & Limbsaver recoil pad is very mild too.

Another argument in favor of a semi-auto is that you do not have to keep your off arm extended (when the action is closed and the forend is further away from the receiver), which can be hard for smaller shooters since shotguns are heavy. A cheap and light Weatherby SA-08 Youth in 20ga would work fine for them.

I have inexperienced shooters in my home, and in my book, a semi-auto is more appropriate.

I also had inexperienced shooters in my home, but I considered it my duty to make them experienced. Honestly though, I just selfishly wanted my hobby to be whole-family fun. )
 
Rio Royal #4 buckshot, all 21 pellets in a 10" circle from 21 feet using a Mossberg 500 with 18.5" barrel.

Number4Buck.jpg
 
Wow, I got a lot more feedback and good ideas than I would have ever thought. I am still planning on buying that 887, and many clearly pointed out several drawbacks, but part of what I like is it is available with no looking further, (I'm Lazy) and there are some features that I do like, the all-weather durability if it were to become a survival weapon (A secondary reason to home defense) is one, and the long slide throw does not intimidate me, and again if the secondary purpose comes to play I expect I would have some 3 1/2 inch shells in my go bag (But I am getting a little long in tooth for that kind of stuff) The Warden however is a different story and based on a lot of the comments I have heard, I might order a Mossberg SA-20 tactical with the shorter pull stock and AR style pistol grip. It is a Semi-Auto, 5 +1 capacity 20 Gauge, that should work for her, and cover some of the 887's shortcomings.

That and the fact that I already committed to the 887, and I'm not going back on my word. It never really occurred to me that the choice would be questioned. Next time ask first, commit second. (I Should have learned that by now)
 
I might order a Mossberg SA-20 tactical with the shorter pull stock and AR style pistol grip. It is a Semi-Auto, 5 +1 capacity 20 Gauge, that should work for her, and cover some of the 887's shortcomings.

Great choice. 11-87 Youth in 20ga is also nice, but it is somewhat heavier due to the steel receiver (the weight of 11-87s makes them very soft-shooting, though).

I recommend holding it in your (and her) hands first. Sometimes it comes down to subtle things like the balance, finish, racking sound/resistance, stock or grip or forend or whatever. Good luck, and hope it never gets to serve its primary purpose. )
 
Ever try to port load or clear a malfunction with a 37? I want easy access to the chamber on all my serious use weapons no exception.

For those that do not already know, bird shot is appropriately named as it is for birds, not HD, it is crap in that role. Just stick with 00 and be done with it, perhaps a few slugs to port load for a long range shot.

BTW I’m left handed as well and use to prefer Mossberg due to the safety location but when all said and done it makes no difference.

It doesn't matter what type of malfunction occurs during HD, you're not going to be clearing it until after the incident. I've had stuck shells in an R870 too, clearing them will still take too long in an incident in which the first shot doesn't kill/incapacitate/force the retreat of the initial intruder.
 
500/590/870 are in the price range.. avoid double and single barrels. If you want to move up FN and Benelli semi autos beckon. I went with the 2009 NRA shotgun of the year, an FN SLP MK 1. LOVE it! It's for the Great Chimpout

But my bedside shottie is an 18 inch 500 with a light, tritium front post, side folding stock and a 6 rd sidesaddle

Use 00 buckshot. I like my full house S & B 12 pellet load but there are low recoil tac 00 loads out there as well. I will not warn or rack, the first thing an invader will hear is BOOM
 
Rio Royal #4 buckshot, all 21 pellets in a 10" circle from 21 feet using a Mossberg 500 with 18.5" barrel.

Problem with #4 is on side or quartering shots, not enough penetration. If I were to use it, it would be the Federal 3 inch magnums with 41 pellets and the aim point would be the head or upper neck
 
Problem with #4 is on side or quartering shots, not enough penetration. If I were to use it, it would be the Federal 3 inch magnums with 41 pellets and the aim point would be the head or upper neck

My goal was to find a load that the weakest member of our family could still effectively employ. My eleven year old fired several different shells and we found that the one ounce loads worked best for him. Penetration from #4 buck in gel is 14.5" on average buck_4_b.jpg , and the multiple tracts look nasty.



I do load a 00 buck at the bottom of the tube because if it ain't over in four shots, screw over-penetration.

buck_4_b.jpg
 
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Well I am the owner of the 887 and it was $415, I like its balance. That balance will change with the loading of shells I am sure, so tomorrow I will be looking for buckshot. Uuuhhh... #4 buckshot.
 
My goal was to find a load that the weakest member of our family could still effectively employ. My eleven year old fired several different shells and we found that the one ounce loads worked best for him. Penetration from #4 buck in gel is 14.5" on average View attachment 63317, and the multiple tracts look nasty.



I do load a 00 buck at the bottom of the tube because if it ain't over in four shots, screw over-penetration.

Not saying it won't work, but less effective than 00 and Box O Truth recommends against #4. You've thought out your own needs and it's your call
 
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Actually I'll get what's available, I have not paid attention to 12 Gauge in the past. I always thought #1 Buck would be a good compromise with 16 .30 cal pellets.
 
And if it is a Katrina like situation and what you’ve got is what you’ve got, then what? Still waiting for the "incident" to be over.

The point being it is the more access to your chamber the easier it is to clear malfunctions in order to get your weapon up and running again.

the Ithaca 37 does not have feeding issues, it's a well designed weapon, in fact it has a much stronger reciever then most other shotguns and handles magnum shotshells well.

in a Katrina like situation i'm not only going to have 1 gun. so even if the 37 does fail (unlikely) then switch to another gun.

you're describing a personal beef you have with the design. the I37's design is sound.

this is like Rob Pincus on his videos trashing the compact carry 1911s because they won't perform the same as glocks at his training courses... except that the compact 1911s will have jams, but only every 250 rounds or more.... and you won't be shooting 250 rounds in a SD scenario. you're projecting combat requirements on a situation which is not the same as ground combat.
 
Actually I'll get what's available, I have not paid attention to 12 Gauge in the past. I always thought #1 Buck would be a good compromise with 16 .30 cal pellets.

Here is a good analysis of 12ga loads in ballistic gel, with photos: Shotgunworld.com ? View topic - 12 gauge Wound Profiles (56k beware) Examples on page 3. This article, and a number of others, suggests that #1 buck produces a more effective wound trauma than 00 buck.

Double-ought is popular because it is cheap, and it is cheap because it is popular. It became popular because it is issued to Army soldiers and police officers, who may need to shoot through car doors and other barriers.

Having said that, the FBI is supposedly using buck #4 as it reduces overpenetration concerns. I personally believe that a shotgun blast, anything from 00 to #4, is going to do the job fine; even birdshot can be very effective at close distances (especially larger varieties like BB) as you can see on the photos above.

There is 00 in 20ga by Rio, but it patterns poorly in that gauge. I have never seen #1. In 20ga you are often limited to #3 (3'' or 2 3/4'') or #2 (3''), which is fine.
 
Well the only place I shopped was WalMart in Cornelius and they just had some five round boxes, limit 3 boxes, and they were 4.95 a box. It was supposedly "Military Grade" Winchester shells, plain brown box, and the shells were Olive Drab, 2 3/4 00 buckshot. I did buy three boxes anyway so I have something right now.
 
Here is a good analysis of 12ga loads in ballistic gel, with photos: Shotgunworld.com ? View topic - 12 gauge Wound Profiles (56k beware) Examples on page 3. This article, and a number of others, suggests that #1 buck produces a more effective wound trauma than 00 buck.

Double-ought is popular because it is cheap, and it is cheap because it is popular. It became popular because it is issued to Army soldiers and police officers, who may need to shoot through car doors and other barriers.

Having said that, the FBI is supposedly using buck #4 as it reduces overpenetration concerns. I personally believe that a shotgun blast, anything from 00 to #4, is going to do the job fine; even birdshot can be very effective at close distances (especially larger varieties like BB) as you can see on the photos above.

There is 00 in 20ga by Rio, but it patterns poorly in that gauge. I have never seen #1. In 20ga you are often limited to #3 (3'' or 2 3/4'') or #2 (3''), which is fine.

Birdshot is an extremely poor choice, it was designed to bring down little birds, not hopped up or drunk 200 lb home invaders
 

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