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"Home Defense" shotguns

Discussion in 'Rifle Discussion' started by Pandaz3, May 12, 2013.

  1. Pandaz3

    Pandaz3 Cornelius, Oregon NRA Lifetime Member Platinum Supporter Gold Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    I am looking at buying a shotgun, I am not a Skeet, Trap or Bird shooter, so I don't own one now. I have used some in the distant past, but never had one for myself. I had been casually looking at the different categories, Pump, Over and Under, Side by Side, Bolt, Lever, Semi-Auto, Single shot, Goose, Tactical, and Coach gun. I like the looks and nostalgia of the Coach gun and I am mindful that Side by Sides are highly recommended by or resident gun expert, Joe Biden, but I am not convinced that it is the better choice of a shotgun for home defense. I think the tactical models are a better solution, so that is where I have been looking harder. Remington and Mossberg seem to be industry leaders and of course there are more. I think I have settled on a Remington 887 Nitro Tactical for around $425. Does anyone have any Pros or Cons with this Shotgun? Is there an obviously better choice out there?

    Thanks
     
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  2. Pandaz3

    Pandaz3 Cornelius, Oregon NRA Lifetime Member Platinum Supporter Gold Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    Yes I am only planning on 2 3/4 rounds, the 887 is based on the 870. I can find 870's but not tactical ones without going a distance. I did read the brochure in the link and was reasonably impressed, but it is all marketing. This is just a Goose gun factory converted to tactical.
     
  3. Mark W.

    Mark W. Silverton, OR Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    the only tactical you need on an 870 is a 18-20" barrel and a 2-3 round mag extension. Anything past that is for Mall Nija looks. 2 3/4" the 18" barrel and 2rd ext will give you 7+1 rounds with one in the pipe. And of course the 20" will give you 8+1 with the 3rd ext.

    00 9 pellet to #4 buck 27 pellets in a 1.25oz load. So with a 18" barrel and #4 buckshot .24" D ball you end up with 216 balls to throw at some thing.
     
  4. dmancornell

    dmancornell Portland, OR New Member

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    Sure, Benelli Nova. Better fit and finish than the pot metal Cerberus-mington.
     
  5. jrprich

    jrprich PNW Well-Known Member

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    pot metal ?
     
  6. Netspirit

    Netspirit Bellevue, WA Active Member

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    887 does not get much love from the shotgun community because of its reliability issues. When I was doing my home defense shotgun research, everybody told me to stay away from 887 in favor of 870.

    So, pick 870 in a 18-21 barrel. It will serve you well, retain its value better, you will have access to huge inventory of accessories.

    Gauge: you do not NEED a 12ga for home defense. The only people who NEED a 12ga are waterfowl hunters. Anyone who shoots 12ga well can shoot 20ga better - it is lighter and more maneuverable (think of holding someone at gun point, or shooting at a moving target - especially if you have younger/weaker family members), the ammo weights less and takes less space (easier to stockpile and carry), and the recoil level is "just right" (12ga owners have been opting for "reduced recoil" 12ga loads). Yet it has enough firepower (essentially a .615 caliber) to take a grizzly bear down (with a rifled slug). However, if you choose 12ga it is still an excellent choice - the differences between the two gauges are not dramatic.

    Features: For tactical applications (room-to-room cleaning, etc.) youth shotguns work very well (with shorter length of pull - 12-13'' instead of standard 14.5''). Having a pistol grip is nice, but I would stay away from shotguns that have pistol grips only (no stocks) - they are hard to aim (you must aim a shotgun regardless of how it patterns). If a shotgun does not have a magazine tube extension, consider purchasing one to mount a flashlight on. A quick research will give you the names of the best flashlight manufacturers (Surefire, Streamfire, etc.) but cheaper TK-* Fenix models also do their job. Some Mossbergs have built-in lights.

    Examples: I would be happy with any of these models for home defense: 870 JR, 870 Youth, 870 tactical with Knoxx recoil-reducing stock with a magazine extension (if needed), Elzetta mount and Fenix TK22 flashlight.

    Chokes: having a cylinder (open) choke is fine for home defense. You can still hit a man-size target at 25 yards with a slug (if you have to shoot in your backyard) and at typical home distances buckshot will not spread too much. Open-choke barrels are easier to clean and maintain. If your shotgun has a screw-in choke (like the 2 youth models above), use Improved Cylinder (best for slugs, works well with buckshot too).

    Loads: any buckshot is fine, but larger pellets carry a higher risk of overpenetration. I am using #3. If you live in a smaller house or apartment with kids/neighbors all around you, you can use birdshot, however, this is a very controversial subject.

    With shotguns there is no good solution for hearing protection. If you shoot indoors in self-defense, your hearing will be permanently damaged (the same applies to anyone near you).
     
  7. dmancornell

    dmancornell Portland, OR New Member

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    Go take a look at the post-Cerberus trigger guards on the 870.

    Every gun company bought out by Cerberus saw a steep decline in Q&R.
     
  8. EMNofSeattle

    EMNofSeattle Kitsap Active Member

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    Being a lefty... I would prefer an Ithaca 37 Tactical for HD purposes. the Ithaca ejects out the bottom.

    Ithaca 37 tactical, with a mounted light and tactical sling. 8 shot tube. and for HD I'd get a 20 gauge, with the longest chamber possible, with for 20 I think would be 3 inch, for three inch shells. because then you can shoot 3 inch and 2 3/4 inch shells as well. a larger birdshot like #4 used for geese and turkeys will probably be adequate in a residential setting. I'd prefer Buckshot #2 but if you live in a more confined space # 4 bird will likely do you for HD
     
  9. sealine

    sealine Oregon Well-Known Member

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    If you're looking for some nostalgia with a little more capacity than a side by side, check out a Remington Model 11. :thumbup:

    qsljea.jpg
     
  10. Dan1477

    Dan1477 Beaverton, Oregon Active Member

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    Never understood why people go for a pump when we have awesome shotguns like the Saiga-12 and the benelli M4.
     
  11. EMNofSeattle

    EMNofSeattle Kitsap Active Member

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    Because pump action guns are cheaper and more reliable, plus have the ability to be topped off without rendering the gun inoperable
     
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  12. hondakilla98

    hondakilla98 beaverton, or Active Member

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    Reliability with any ammunition, and cost. A quality pump is half the price and more reliable with a broad variety of ammo.

    I'm not saying that semi autos are unreliable. But some don't cycle reliably with light recoiling ammo. If I had the money I'd have a converted Saiga in 20 gauge, and a full mag of #3 or #4 2 3/4" shells. But good luck finding that for anywhere near $450. My Mossberg 590 20" 8+1 with ghost ring sights was $300 used. And it's a great home defense gun. It'll be better with the hogue youth stock when I put it on.
     
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  13. Netspirit

    Netspirit Bellevue, WA Active Member

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    Never understood $1000+ semi-auto shotguns for home defense. You need semi-auto (in pistols, rifles) to be able to quickly make several holes in one target (possibly missing a few), while a shotgun is very likely to make a bunch of holes at home distances even with poor aiming. If you have multiple targets, acquiring each of them and pumping can be done simultaneously.
     
  14. Pandaz3

    Pandaz3 Cornelius, Oregon NRA Lifetime Member Platinum Supporter Gold Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    Now that is me...The poor aiming guy! Also, just to make points with Uncle Joe you can eject the round in the chamber to rack another one in....kind of ... A Rack Attack,.....that was supposed to be funny, but racking that slide is attention getting.
     
  15. Dan1477

    Dan1477 Beaverton, Oregon Active Member

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    I was under the impression that you could top off a Benelli m4, and most other tube fed semi-automatic shotguns. Am I wrong?

    You got me on cost, however, as far as reliability goes, most semi-automatic shotguns only have minor troubles with "underpowered" (using that term carefully) target/cheap loads. I dunno about you, but I would be using the best ammo I could get my hands on for home defense.

    Unless you live in a mansion, you are going to get baseball sized groups with standard barrel lengths and loads at home defense distances. Not saying pump would be ineffective, but semi auto is a viable option, and you have the opportunity to dump much more lead if you need to.

    There are some other pros as well to semi auto's. I have inexperienced shooters in my home, and in my book, a semi-auto is more appropriate. You have no chance of the inexperienced shooter to "short-shuck" the shotgun.
     
  16. JV100

    JV100 portland/wilsonville Active Member

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    I know some here will disagree, but a decent mossberg 835 ulti mag with a pistol grip will woop some ***. Long barrel yes, but slap the butt back on and back to hunting birds. Plus the ulti mag can take pretty much all the shell sizes, no slugs with the choked model tho.
     
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  17. dmancornell

    dmancornell Portland, OR New Member

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    Pumps can malfunction, it's called a short stroke, i.e. human malf. The whole notion that one does not "need" a semi shottie because you can aim and pump and the same time is ludicrous, by parity of argument, everyone should go back to bolt rifles for HD.
     
  18. tacticalgunner

    tacticalgunner Wilsonville The Man, The Myth, The Legend Bronze Supporter

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    For home defense, I am looking at the sound of racking that shell, that will put a bad guy either running away, falling to the floor either begging me not to shot them, or last case, me having to put them there. That is a universal sound, everyone knows the sound of that shell racking back. Honestly, I don't ever want to shot someone if I have other options. If fear make a bad guy surrender, I am happy with that, less time I have to spend defending my right to shoot, or a rule of engagement that society has made reasonable. If you want to shot someone, i suggest you find a shrienk, not a forum..... I love my Mossbergs. My Browning Light 12 is awesome, no issues, but I love the pump to get my point across.
     
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  19. mjbskwim

    mjbskwim Salmon,Idaho Well-Known Member

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    HOLLYWOOD!
    With a name like tacticalgunner,you would think your gun would be in condition one and ready to fire,not ready to hollywood it up and HOPE the bad guy gives a rats $$$ if you rack your slide.
    Gee that gives me your location and now I know where to shoot!

    I never want to shoot anyone but the last thing I want a bad guy to hear is the impact of my projectile hitting him.

    Double guns are fine if you really want to go to battle with only 2 shots.
    Yes you may need to go to battle.Maybe that bad guy wants some fun.
    And they are kinda heavy for most folks

    But I believe a hunting type shot gun with 4 and 1 would suffice most home invasions.Only maybe only a 20" barrel.The higher capacity are better but if you have a hunting shotgun and take the plug out,I wouldn't feel under gunned.With a double I would.

    As far as caliber,it would be the same as with a rifle or hand gun. Get the largest caliber you can efficiently shoot multiple times. Not just 1 shot and be skeered to shoot again.
    410 will kill a person fairly easy with slugs or 000 buck.And if that's all you can sweep around then that's the shot gun for you.
    A 20 gun is much better and a 12 being the best IMO. But I have no problems with shooting a 12 gauge.

    I like autos best as you just keep pulling the trigger. And in a high stress situation every little thing counts. If you are practiced enough with a pump then they are great too. That's kinda where the M37 shines as it's a slam fire. Hold the trigger and pump away.
    There isn't a "one size fits all" shot gun.Go try all of them you can.
     
  20. tacticalgunner

    tacticalgunner Wilsonville The Man, The Myth, The Legend Bronze Supporter

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    Unfortunately the Hollywood action has worked in several instances. I can give you actual cases if you would like. By the wat, tactics are actually ways to de-escalate situations in order to gain a position or objective. You may think its Hollywood, I think it's smart. Shoot, pump assess, shot again if needed, if not, save the next round for e other bad guy, that's why most military rifles are 3 round instead of full auto.