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Nathan Fosters website has been a great bookmark for me, lots of ballistic, terminal performance and shooting info specific to hunters. I was reading on improving my marksmanship and this article stood out to me as opposite what I see other more experienced shooters do or suggest.
TLDR: holding your forend is more accurate than the crossed arm hold with heavier recoiling rifles.

The idea here is that properly controlling the forearm is more difficult to learn but more accurate, where the more popular crossed arm method came about from a gap in marksmanship training and stuck with us today.

I would like to hear everyone's opinions on this subject? If you were instructing someone on their marksmanship which way would you teach them?

link to article:

The crossed arm hand hold was not adopted because it was better; it was adopted because it was easier. Easier doesn't mean better, if anything, it means lazier. Humans are good at avoiding any form of discomfort. The traditional forend hold on the other hand requires effort, a level of discipline and practice. The payoff is the creation of transferable skills that will enable one to shoot all manner of rifles and cartridges comfortably and consistently - including those used by African hunters.


By developing and practicing methods of optimum forend control, the marksman becomes much more attuned to the rifle and able to understand how the rifle is likely to shoot from a variety of positions.
 
... holding your forend is more accurate than the crossed arm hold with heavier recoiling rifles.
I didn't read the article, but as far as I know... I would agree.I think the key there is heavier recoil (standard) and considering accuracy and speed when it come to follow-up shots.

IE., The cross arm likely provides more stability... say... in long range shooting competitions with heavy barrels and light recoil, but heavier recoil rifles.... I would say... it makes sense that the recoil itself would be pulling your shoots off without adequate forend stability. I mean... how does that not make sense if you're barrel is free to go whipping around all by it's lonesome on a pivot point that far back on just the stock?? Maybe if the forend was locked onto a forward rest, but then that'll mess up your barrel harmonics. Sooo.....

I dunno about being harder or easier to learn. Neither way is rocket science, but if cross arm is the "new norm" (news to me) and folks aren't training for forend control... I would most certainly call that a severe training deficit.


Maybe I'm misunderstanding and you're only talking about match shooting and commonly used rifles specific to that purpose?
 
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If its a heavy rifle, the fore end matters less.
If its hunting rifle, you bet it matters.
I find "dynamic tension" with equilibrium works. In my practice, I will tighten for a shot then relax, and I don't want to see a change in POA.
 
What feels comfortable to you....
What is safe...
Can you consistently make good hits at the distances you need to make 'em at....

If so...then that is how you need to hold and shoot your rifle.
If not...you may want to change things up a bit.

Since we all shoot differently , and have different needs....
There is no one size fits all shooting method.

Learn your rifle...
Learn to shoot it well for the where and how you shoot....
And don't over think things or worry 'bout how the other guy shoots.
Andy
 
I'm old school. I just rest my rifle over my right shoulder pointing behind me and then I aim through iron sights using a handheld mirror.
Anne is that you?
1675003659527.png
 
Cross-arm hold worked OK for this guy 😁

View attachment 1355442
The article mentions Gunnery Sargent Carlos Hathcock as an advocate of using his sling and gripping the forend. It also discusses how less secure holds became more common in the Vietnam war era....

"While Captain Jim Land and instructors like Hathcock encouraged optimum shooting habits, away from their units for months at a time, many snipers developed relaxed techniques which would eventually become integrated into normal shooting practices."
 
Then they should have found a picture of him doing it instead of that other guy.
That was my first thought.

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This is why I enjoy that website I learn more about a subject than just the specifics that I want to use, lots of history and info in Nathan Fosters website, of course its a plug for his book but my guess is it would be a good read worth buying.
 
Although I am a cross arm shooter at the bench, have a few rifles that I can shoot consistently smaller groups groups with some interaction with the forearm. One such rifle is the very light Kimber Montana in 280 ai.
 
Although I am a cross arm shooter at the bench, have a few rifles that I can shoot consistently smaller groups groups with some interaction with the forearm. One such rifle is the very light Kimber Montana in 280 ai.
Yeah whats interesting is I bought a new 280ai and as Ive started sending the first few rounds thru it I stopped using the cross arm method due to the jump, and why I was reading up on technique.
 
Because there is only one name on the meme and those two pictures are most often misassociated together with Hathcock, but I guess there are no pictures of LCpl Dalton Gunderson by himself. :s0140:
And there is only one picture of a sniper with his arms crossed, the subject of this thread, so I MUST have been talking about Gunny Hathcock, right? JFC. :confused:
 
Well your not allowed to use the "cross arm" technique when qualifying at the range in the USMC.

They are also only M16/M4 variants in 5.56. So there is no recoil and the guns aren't that heavy.
 
No one has mentioned the, off hand "Artillery Hold" :s0092:
I use it with my AR15 .458. I also use the, "figure 8 weave" sight picture in my scope. :)
The straight back push of the of the .458 rocks me, :rolleyes:
but I let it and the recoil isn't any greater than a 20GA. shotgun. :s0093:
 

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