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High quality red dot: Need versus Want?

Discussion in 'General Firearm Discussion' started by mouse, Feb 3, 2013.

  1. mouse

    mouse Pacific Northwest Active Member

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    My rifle is an Sgl21. It's a great rifle, and its the one I would grab if all hell broke loose. With that said, would I benefit greatly from buying a high quality optic? Those red dots are soo damn expensive, (almost as much as my AK) are they worth sticking on my rifle. If all hell broke loose, would you feel naked without one, or could you easily do without. I simply can't decide for myself if its a need versus want. To me Ak sights kind of suck, but so do $500 accessories. For those of you that love red dots and feel it would greatly benefit my rifle, what would be best for my particluar rifle? I had my eye on a aimpoint H1, but like I said, I don't know much about these things. Thanks guys!


    PS I bought one of those Bushnell TRS25 red dots and it was terrible (star cluster)
     
  2. TapRackNGo

    TapRackNGo PNW Well-Known Member

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    I have a Aimpoint T1, yes it's expensive but if you think of guns other than range toys you are better off spending the money on a good optic. To prove my point, head out into the woods in a treed area during the afternoon. Moving from sunlight to shade and look at your sights in those various conditions. For me, it was an easy choice, the red dot is faster. This is how I always justify an expense like that. Buy it, use it and if for some reason you don't think you need it you can always sell it for not to much less than you paid if you shop smart. I would suggest you look at the T1 tho, for resale having the ability to use night vision is more appealing to many people.

    I would rather have one rifle that is really dialed in than 5 rifles that just sit. After evaluating what I think I need I have sold other guns to pay for optics, etc... Narrowing my calibers to just a couple, have plenty of mags, ammo, spare parts and $ for training. Then imagine doing the same things at night. The process starts all over again. Good luck with your journey:cool:
     
  3. oneharmonic

    oneharmonic Portland, OR Well-Known Member

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  4. Skang

    Skang WA Well-Known Member

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    I personally don't buy cheap stuff for firearms. Not that I buy top of the line product every time, but something that I don't have to buy twice.

    And yes, Aimpoint is very durable top notch red dot sights.

    stuff person above me mentioned is good start. Vortex and Fastfire
     
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  5. aslinged

    aslinged Southern Oregon Well-Known Member

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    Save and get the T1.
     
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  6. Skang

    Skang WA Well-Known Member

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    save $50+ and get H1 (no NV settings)
     
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  7. mouse

    mouse Pacific Northwest Active Member

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    thanks for the advice guys. Now I'm interested in night vision. Any mounted recommendations?
     
  8. good2eat

    good2eat Great NW Member

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    You'll be amazed at the difference in speed on target. For me, the $$ are worth it should it be needed (hope it never is). I have an Eotech 552 (night vision compatible)
     
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  9. robertg

    robertg Sandy Oregon Silver Supporter Silver Supporter 2016 Volunteer

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    For my SGL21 I went with the Burris Fast Fire on a Midwest Industries Hand guard that co-witness with the sights.
    Midwest Industries: AK47/74 Handguard
    I had a cheaper red dot but it was a wast of money, live and learn. I love this small and simple set up.
    Save you money, build a good quality rifle.
     
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  10. Cidian

    Cidian Redmond, OR Member

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    I am very new to the world of red dots and I started out with a Vortex Strikefire. I got it at a great price for a black friday special. It is a good red dot, but I then went with an Aimpoint T1 and love the thing. Both work well, and the vortex was a lot cheaper but the Aimpoint is a lot better/
     
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  11. mouse

    mouse Pacific Northwest Active Member

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    How much did you guys pay for the Aimpoint T1. Do they ever go on sale? Holy Cow those are spendy!
     
  12. mouse

    mouse Pacific Northwest Active Member

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    This may be a silly question, but since I'm not in a rush, will these be much cheaper in years to come with the advancement in technology? I assume if there is a gun ban of sorts, more energy is going to be placed on accessories in the gun community. Then again, it looks like aimpoints have increased in price over the years.
     
  13. TapRackNGo

    TapRackNGo PNW Well-Known Member

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    NV has been the same for about 10 years, it's not going to get that much cheaper. If anything if it's threatened, it will jump in price just like ammo, guns, etc... What could happen is NV and accessories could no longer be for sale to civilians. I would say be prepared to spend about 5k if you want great stuff. 4k on NV (hand selected tube, helmet, mounts) and $800 for IR/VIS laser like the DBAL i2. Plenty of forums to read up.
     
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  14. mouse

    mouse Pacific Northwest Active Member

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    thats a great point. I better do some reading up. Last question, I notice the aimpoint pro is quite a bit cheaper than the others, is this a decent red dot.
     
  15. TapRackNGo

    TapRackNGo PNW Well-Known Member

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    Some like the pro. I like the knob, battery life, and weight much better on the T1, faster to adjust. Like anything else you would need to weigh the pros and cons of each and see what suits your needs better. You can start here. Aimpoint T1 VS Aimpoint PRO
     
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  16. trainsktg

    trainsktg Portland OR Well-Known Member

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    I am running a Aimpoint PRO on my Colt and a Belorussian PK-A on my SGL21. Both the PRO and the PK-A have held a precise zero after hundreds of rounds. I would heartily recommend either.

    The Aimpoint PRO is very new on the market, and at about $400 it is also the cheapest Aimpoint you can buy. The pluses are that, as with other Aimpoint products, it has a battery life measured in tens of thousands of hours, and it will cowintess with the back up sights. It is larger and heavier than the Aimpoint H1 or T1, but I do not believe either the H1 or T1 will accept an ARD, as does the PRO.

    The PK-A is old technology, and costs about $200. The battery life is measured only in thousands of hours, it will not cowitness to the irons and it is also a relatively big (but not too heavy) unit. The pluses are that it is much, much more durable than cheap Chinese optics, it will return to zero after multiple removals, and it is an 'authentic' AK optic (although with all of the pictures lately of Russians using US optics, 'authentic' is starting to mean less and less). If you decide to go this route, I would recommend getting one from Eastwave...I'm having some issues with Kalinka over a recent purchase and I can't heartily recommend them at this time.



    Keith
     
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  17. jordanvraptor

    jordanvraptor Oregon City, Oregon Well-Known Member

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    I like my Aimpoint Pro and used the M2 in the Army. I don't intend to beat up my Pro but if its as durable as the ones we beat the snot out of in the infantry then I feel pretty confident in it. Are you going to mount the red dot forward on the gas tube area with an Ultimak mount or with a detachable side rail mount. I have an Arsenal SGL-21. I was considering mounting a red dot forward but just left it stock since its not my goto rifle. Have you thought about changing out the front sight for maybe a Big Dot or tritium insert front post. It might give you a better point of reference to line up the sights. I have also installed peep sights on the rear sight mount and found it worked pretty well if you are used to peep sights. I like red dots but it takes a bit getting used to and for close range I still prefer a quick flash sight of the front sight post against a target. Good luck.

    http://www.brownells.com/rifle-parts/sights/index.htm?avs|Make_3=AK-47
     
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  18. Bill Siegle

    Bill Siegle Oregon Active Member

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    Money spent on quality optics is not a waste. For red dots, I like the EOtechs and Aimpoints. My wife prefers the EOtech so I got the Aimpoint PRO. Both work great and hold their zero.
     
  19. trainsktg

    trainsktg Portland OR Well-Known Member

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  20. TapRackNGo

    TapRackNGo PNW Well-Known Member

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    I am sorry I don't have experience with Vortex. I can only speak from Aimpoint and a bit of Eotech. What made me decide on the T1 was it's lighter than the Eotech. For me, the knob is much quicker to turn on and adjust. To change the brightness settings on a Eotech you need to push a button which could be hard with gloves, or cold hands or at night. The Eotech has a bit more field of view (some say) but I think that might be a training issue. Using the Aimpoint to change to NV is a simple twist of the knob, easy to do in the dark, with cold hands, and / or gloves.

    There are other things such as weight, durability, battery life, auto shutoff (eotech) that made me choose the Aimpoint. Both are quality optics and will work well.