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High Prices for Arms and Ammo... it's just not American

Discussion in 'General Firearm Discussion' started by elkhunt58, Mar 15, 2013.

  1. elkhunt58

    elkhunt58 Eugene Active Member

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    I posted an AR last night and had a fellow forum member jump on with a snarky comment on my price being $600 over MSRP. I responded with a polite response, but I really don't understand guys who "monitor" and jump posts over prices. First, the "S" in MSRP means something. Second, we all know how the market works... if my AR does not sell, I will lower the price, if someone does not want to pay my asking price they can offer and the will always be treated with courtesy. It's simple supply and demand.

    I read a post the other day about "black listing" keeping track of guys who ask too much for ammo... really. Good grief when did gun guys become such a bunch of whiney socialists. Every price must be set, every transaction must meet with their approval, every store must hold ammo for their convenience. Sure we all read prices and smile from time to time... sort of a "what's that guy thinking" response. It comes with the territory, and good territory it is, it's capitalism.

    I am a member of a blade forum that has a sticky posted on the "for sale" board, it's titled "attention K-Mart shoppers" and it reads as follows.

    "Fortunately we are not bound to any standards of pricing for custom knives. A Maker can ask a trillion dollars for his wares if he so chooses. If you have a problem with how much a maker is asking for his knives, just walk away. It's that simple."

    It really is just that simple.

    I have other thoughts about "just testing the waters here... I love this gun and cry when I think of parting with it" type posts... those drive me nuts, either sell your gun or don't... but try and compose yourself in the midst of your emotional pain and indecision.

    OK, it's my day off and I have wasted enough time on this. I will check my post and see if I am required to lower my price, hopefully they moved on to .22 ammo gouging issues that need some sort of government regulation.

    Elkhunt
     
    pokerace, JTB0311, soberups and 15 others like this.
  2. PBinWA

    PBinWA Clark County Well-Known Member

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    Yeah - you got thread crapped on pretty bad. I think with the forum in it's current state that the admin's aren't doing much about policing the thread crapping.
     
  3. elkhunt58

    elkhunt58 Eugene Active Member

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    Oh I can live with their opinions, it won't help my sale, but I am fine with it. Thanks
     
  4. BAMCIS

    BAMCIS Eugene Well-Known Member

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    elkhunt, I'm sure I'll get flamed for this post. I really don't care, I have a thick skin. But I couldn't agree more. If anyone has a problem with your price then they are under no obligation to buy. Market forces at work. Ain't freedom great?

    As for "black listing" your'e right. They scream about the freedoms we are loosing but when the rubber meets to road or they are affected that is when they bubblegum and moan. Those guys talk out of both sides of their mouth. Especially on a pro-freedom forum such as this. They either want freedom or they don't. Can't have it both ways.

    I saw this madness coming a long time ago and bought all three of my AR's and most of the other guns I wanted. I also stocked up on ammo. PLENTY of ammo. If I wanted to I sure I could sell everything I bought at a tidy profit. But I won't. Not because I don't want to be black listed but because I think things are going to get worse before they get better. The climate in Washington has to change.
     
  5. Bob D

    Bob D Oregon, Cascades Well-Known Member

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    I was that snarky poster. I'm sorry. I didn't really manage to engage my "stop being a dick" safety switch. I generally don't do that sort of thing, and I apologize.

    I didn't really intend to complain about the person charging the price, as much as the price itself, and as I just said in the thread, it was an unthinking comment motivated by my rifle envy.
     
  6. EZLivin

    EZLivin SW of PDX Well-Known Member

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    I don't think I've commented with more than one post on all the "gouging" threads, but every time I see people calling it "gouging" I want to laugh. Yup - there must be a TON of closet-socialists on this board. Most of us view firearms as a store of value, but when something we are fortunate enough to own goes up in value we are not suppose to get the current market value if we are selling it? Dumb. I don't know of any other way to price something correctly (for trade or sale) other than by seeing what it is selling for at that particular moment (and price it accordingly).
     
    d2the3, Bob D, 206thsense and 5 others like this.
  7. Bob D

    Bob D Oregon, Cascades Well-Known Member

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    ...and indeed, that is also how I price my items. I just really really wanted to try to make an AR under 5 lbs, and I can't afford it. Poor selfish me should learn better manners.
     
  8. CascadeSam

    CascadeSam Portland Oregon Active Member

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    elkhunt58,

    Thanks for your post. People are rationalizing creatures more so than rational ones. I doubt those who bought an AR three years ago or six months ago would, if selling now, not seek to maximize the profit they could make at today's prices. Some people buy and invest in stocks, commodities, houses, gold bullion, art, collectible guns, and ammo. In a Free Market and Capitalist Society, people can buy and sell ammo whether purchased six years, six months, six days, or six hours ago. The Free Market (which socialists hate) responds naturally and self-corrects to supply, demand, and perceived value. As a customer I don't like the higher prices charged by stores when I am the buyer yet if I have something of value that is in demand providing me with a profit then I like it. Life.
     
  9. samuelm16

    samuelm16 se pdx Well-Known Member

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    Dont hate the player hate the game, now where can i get some .22 to go shoot some beer cans
     
  10. 1stklass

    1stklass salem oregon Well-Known Member

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    Its tax season, its all correcting itself, i bought a bunch of Pmags and Hk mags and Ammo as a hedge to make sure my dollar held its value for the guns i was wanting to buy. i bought it relatively cheap(3 to 4 days after the sandy hook whatever it was), figured if i had to sell it i'd sell it high and turn right around and be able to buy the guns at the high price. My 100 dollars would have been worth 25 to 30 dollars towards a gun purchase if i hadnt done what i did. This way my hundred dollars was worth 300 or 400 but towards a gun purchase that instead of 100 is now 300 or 400. I also knew that since i am in the market for very specific guns, and multiples of the same gun that i might be awhile finding them. i've found a couple and still looking but i was not priced out of the market because i was hedged in.
     
  11. PMB

    PMB Vancouver, Washington Active Member

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    Top Notch Bob. I'd have a beer with you any day.
     
  12. CLT65

    CLT65 Yamhill County Active Member

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    I usually don't participate in the whole gouging vs. capitalism controversy, but have been wondering about something for quite a while now.

    Suppose someone panicked a month or two ago and went out and paid $2k for a rifle that sold for $700 a couple months earlier. Now suppose the credit card bill is due and he lists it for sale for the max he can hope to get now, maybe $1200. The poor sucker is taking a bath financially, but he's still trying to sell a $700 rifle for $1200. Is he a gouger? :)

    I don't really have a strong opinion on the subject one way or the other, just thought I'd share a different perspective. I've seen stuff for sale also, where I shake my head at the insane price and wonder what they are thinking.
     
  13. Trailboss

    Trailboss Vancouver, WA Well-Known Member

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    I don't believe such a person is a gouger. When I look at ads and see someone selling bulk 22 for $50 that normally sells for $18, I look at their profile and check their last 20 posts. If most of their posts have to do with selling high priced bulk 22 with repeated threads on the topic then I put the gouger on ignore. This person is obviously buying up the supply to resell at corner the market prices.

    When I see someone like you describe selling older ammo or a single rifle or such, I figure no worries.
     
  14. fishorgolf

    fishorgolf Portland Oregon Member

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    I kinda like the idea of OBO selling and let the cards fall where they may, if the seller doesen't get his price don't sell. A gun that is posted $180 over retail new unfired, makes me think the seller is buying the gun just to sell and I think that might be illegal, ( A Straw Buyer ) if selling was his intent when he bought it in the 1st place. We all fill out federal forms when buying a gun, that state are you buying the gun for yourself or is it a gift. I have always thought a fair price is a price I would be happy to buy or sell myself. I would bet the seller of the $180 over retail priced gun, would not buy it at that price, still a great gun just not as great.

    I would hate to see more rules put on gun buyers, because of abused gun sales. Please don't confuse Rights with Privileges cause there not the same.
     
  15. MinnesotaORnewbie

    MinnesotaORnewbie Oregon Active Member

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    I haven't looked at your thread, nor care to since you just told me it is marked $600 over MSRP, which normally is already more than you will ever see it at a dealer. To be perfectly clear, this site sucks ever since the "gone crazy market". And its because of people like you who try to convince everyone that it is American, or its perfectly ok because no one has to buy it or can make a offer crap. This site used to be a great place to come to and buy, trade, sell, with nothing more than worrying about which party had to drive farther in order to make the sale. Now, its not even worth a guys time to look for anything because people think prices are now fixed in stone, post-screw your neighbor rate. Really, it is so sickening to read post after post of classifieds that are way over priced and all because people are still trying to gouge. Scroll through the sale adds and take note of how many Jerk offs have bumped their insane priced items since December or January. GET the point people, take your junk and go else where. this site doesn't need these "new" members.

     
  16. Modly

    Modly Beaverton Active Member

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    Let me make this clear, since you seem to be telling us that we aren't "Freedom loving Americans" because we refuse to pay more than MSRP.

    Telling you *anything* at all is expressing the 1st Amendment right to free speech. Yup, surely we hate freedom.

    Capitalism isn't a constitutionally granted right. While I support a capitalist society, it has nothing to do with rights.

    As a guy with enough guns to supply a police department in a smaller town, I don't *need* your stuff. It is a want. During this frenzy, I've bought three more guns, and I didn't pay more than 10% more than I would have in October for any of them. I also bought $10 AK mags, $12 AR mags, and $23 Glock mags. I might not get it today, but I'll get it soon, and at the price I'm willing to pay.

    While you may not necessarily be guilty of this, I'm tired of the people drumming up the "Get it before it's banned" crap. If we get a state ban in Oregon, I have ties to another state that I can securely move to in 6 weeks.

    I'm also annoyed with the guys spouting the "You should have bought it before the panic" crap. Like most Americans who earn a living, I can't buy all the stuff on my wishlist right now, and I certainly couldn't do it years ago when I made half of my current income. Despite making what I consider a "comfortable" income, I still understand that my debit card isn't a bottomless flow of cash. I budget my guns into my finances, and I budget accessories too. I also budget my electric bill, car insurance, and alcohol. I have down the list of things to budget a Barrett .50BMG rifle, and it's not in my finances until late 2015. Yet I will still have some clown telling me that I "Should have been preparred..." when I can't find mags for it because of some unknown situation.

    TL;DR, when the peanut gallery tells you that your price sucks, and it hasn't sold... It's not because your price is high... It's because your price is insane.
     
    michaels and (deleted member) like this.
  17. michaels

    michaels oregon Active Member

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    Minnesota,

    I'm with you.
    (Except for the part about "jewguns", but whatever)

    Elk hunt,

    Look, even in a "free market capitalist society" there is such a thing as price gouging.

    If you're going to price gouge, just do it. And get a thick skin about doing it.
    You hate hearing people whine about prices? I hate hearing whine about how "its not gouging"
    And then backing it up with a lecture on capitalism.
    So many political science, economics, and constitutional law professors on this site!
    And to think they all do this part time after working their day jobs!

    This is an example of false equivalence.
    Buying pmags, 22lr, and AR's (buying not machining and building)
    and then reselling for a higher price is a completely different animal than building custom work.

    I knew a cabinet maker, who made custom cabinets. When people would talk about IKEA and pricing, gr would pull out the IKEA catalog. And he would show them how much cheaper IKEA was. And let them know of they wanted IKEA prices, they could shop there.

    But again, buying and reselling a rifle, that's not making a rifle.

    So yes Dorothy, there is such a thing as price gouging.

    So, either do it, or don't.

    But don't do it and write a post about how you're a great guy and people shouldn't criticize you.
     
  18. michaels

    michaels oregon Active Member

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    Ps to cascade Sam,

    I have a rifle that I am not particularky attached to.

    I could double my money on it. Everytime I think of doing that, I have to think what is the root cause of our current pricing climate?

    Personally, as a Christian, I do not want to profit, even indirectly from a massacre.

    And before accusations of me being soft or whatever come....

    Let me just remind you. (Universal you, not you, Sam) Being callous and indifferent to the pain of others does not make you tough.

    It just makes you an @$$ hole.
     
  19. mancat

    mancat Kitsap County Well-Known Member

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    What IS gouging and deceptive practices? Well for example, Cheaper Than Dirt has been known to change prices on items quickly, whereby they will cancel existing orders which were made at a lower price, stating that the item was "out of stock." The item in question then magically becomes available on their site, but at the higher price. That's dishonesty and a willingness to breach a sale that is a contractual obligation if they are able to fill your order.
     
  20. CascadeSam

    CascadeSam Portland Oregon Active Member

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    Minnesota,

    Hey man, that is wrong and ignorant by itself, and supports the negative stereotyping the gun-grabbers are claiming about gun-owners.