Hickok45 on Gun Culture 2.0 - A Must Read

Discussion in 'General Firearm Discussion' started by Joe Link, Apr 18, 2017.

  1. Onomea

    Onomea
    Oregon
    New Member

    Messages:
    9
    Likes Received:
    19
    Holy smokes! Fifteen pages of comments? I don't have the patience, or... the interest. (Not meaning to be rude, you understand.)

    I am on the "welcome all to the shooter community" side of this discussion.

    I am, politically — in so far as I can determine — a social liberal, a defense/foreign policy hawk, a fiscal conservative (my taxes are too effin high), and a proponent of the 2A.

    There is no political figure with whom I agree all the time. (I don't even agree with myself all the time.)

    I say Big Tent, fellas. More 2A friends is better than less.
     
    Oya, Flymph, ma96782 and 5 others like this.
  2. etrain16

    etrain16
    Oregon
    Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

    Messages:
    10,054
    Likes Received:
    26,502
    I don't think taking that step is necessary. Let's be honest, guns are a political issue (I really, really wish they weren't), and we need to be informed about what's going on. Outside of sites like this, where are these topics discussed? The MSM? The newspaper? Where can there be open discussion and information? I think we need a place where we can debate the topic, even if it's a tough one for some people to swallow.

    I am of the opinion that adults have the ability to get into or stay out of any discussion that doesn't interest them. There is a lot of content on this site that isn't political - you can spend hours here and never run into political discussion.

    Political talk is very tense for some people, for others, highly divisive and agitating. It really doesn't affect me that way, so I don't have a problem jumping into these discussions. Honestly, I do enjoy seeing other points of view beyond the typical echo chamber you can encounter on sites like this. And really, how can we ever hope to make any headway for gun rights if we can't be open to hearing about it from different points of view. Every single person that weighed in on this thread had a valid opinion to share, regardless of how many people agreed with them. I've read every post, some I agreed with, some I didn't and some I was undecided on. But I think I've actually learned a few new things along the way, some things I'm happy to have picked up. I'd hate to see an opportunity like that taken away.

    So I'm glad @Joe Link not only started this thread, but allowed it to stay open, even though it got tense. But hey, it kind of started to wrap up last night with folks saying they'd still love to sit down and have a beer together. That's some progress there.

    But for those that are put off by such discussions, you've got 2 great options on the site: #1 avoid the topics that get you worked up and #2, use the 'ignore' feature if certain members just don't sit right with you. As for me, I'm going to continue to participate so long as I find some value in the discussion.
     
    Ura-Ki, bbbass, Caveman Jim and 9 others like this.
  3. CrackPipe

    CrackPipe
    Washougal
    New Member

    Messages:
    1
    Likes Received:
    8
    Add "fan of science" to that list of yours and it sounds like me.
    In the spirit of that, let's add some data. (Most from Pew Research)
    As everyone would expect, Republicans own more guns than Democrats or Independents. However, it appears to evade some people that Republicans do NOT own more guns than Democrats AND Independents.
    Republicans make up about 30% of the US population. Slightly less than half of them own guns. As 15% of the population, "going it alone" is not going to work.
    Big Tent is the only way you can protect our 2A rights.
     
    ZigZagZeke, Tom Louis, Ura-Ki and 5 others like this.
  4. ShootFirst

    ShootFirst
    Southern Oregon
    Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    447
    Likes Received:
    515
    Honestly Joe, I think, I mean I know you are spot on. My own opinion is there are many pro-guns who have fears and they let that sway how they feel inside, possibly even peer pressure to not be that guy that would ever talk with a Liberal. I know a guy real well about 26 years and well he wouldn't talk to a Liberal to save his own life. And I think there are many who feel that way do and help influence others to be standoffish about the topic. What we need to more of those who are pressured to break off and do whats right and needed, and well would be nice if the hardcore anti-liberal types would realize there are only 2 choices work to preserve or rights or work to lose them. I prefer the first choice, :) I don't think you set people up in this thread I think you opened some eyes and that bothers some. But ...............if you make them think thats the first step.:s0104:lol
     
    Last edited: Apr 21, 2017 at 8:10 AM
    Ura-Ki, SKrueger, Flymph and 3 others like this.
  5. caarecengi

    caarecengi
    Hoodsport
    Active Member

    Messages:
    71
    Likes Received:
    115
    I am 100% in agreement, but I have noticed a trend in the past 12 years or so (maybe back to when Bush won via the SOTUS over Gore), that the political parties have become so polarized, it's like Manchester United vs Arsenal or Chelsea - you almost expect hooliganism because the roots and loyalty to "one cause" over another has led to militant behavior.

    Our rights are being eroded slowly, throughout this country, and it's not just the 2nd Amendment - freedom of speech has been suppressed in the name of PC, our 4th amendment rights are stripped away if the government investigates parents for possible violations of child protective services "guidelines", or you can be cited for running a red light because of a "camera ticket" you receive it the mail (why can't I call the engineers who designed the system into court to confront the "witnesses against me"?)

    I grew up in the 60's in rural NE PA (Scranton was the "big city"), in a strict Catholic household, attending parochial school. If you stepped out of line, the nuns would make an example out of you. If you reported it to the parents, their attitude was, "Well, you clearly did something to deserve it...". Maybe I'm a better man today because of that - although I do find myself becoming more and more despondent of the government in general and their ever-growing intrusion in our lives.

    My son enjoys going to the range and shooting trap - my younger daughter wants to learn, and my middle daughter (who's political persuasion leans far left) is ambivalent, but does think that "gun control" would prevent more violence, in spite of the fact that we both agree the root cause is deranged individuals.

    I really enjoyed what Hikock45 wrote - the problem, as I see it, is that the pastime does transcend into ideology and oftentimes, the common ground is a small slice of the Venn diagram - and people tend to gravitate towards making friends that hold like beliefs.

    I hope I'm wrong and we can attract more young folks to the shooting sports, and to that end, I do have one concrete idea that any one of you can do - sign up at the local BSA council to be a merit badge counselor for rifle and shotgun (and archery). You can even conduct "training classes" once a quarter - and invite the parents to participate as well. I've been to a few "scoutmaster shoots", and I was a scout leader for over 13 years. The only requirement when dealing with the boys is that there must be 2 adults present at all times (a great rule - I find it's more for my protection than the boys' because it insulates me from false accusations).
     
  6. DunRanull

    DunRanull
    southern Colorado, small city bordering where mtns
    Active Member

    Messages:
    148
    Likes Received:
    172
    Right on bro.... racial hate is unacceptable, I don't care who ya are. Don't hate on me just cuz I self-define as "redneck", either. ;)
     
    Ura-Ki, SKrueger, etrain16 and 3 others like this.
  7. DunRanull

    DunRanull
    southern Colorado, small city bordering where mtns
    Active Member

    Messages:
    148
    Likes Received:
    172
    :eek: "Think of it, a bunch of guys hanging around with Gadsden flags with some slung rifles, or whole cities in gridlock and neighborhoods burning".. :s0019:
    Some of us live for this kind of s***.....
     
    Ura-Ki, No_Regerts and Caveman Jim like this.
  8. Camelfilter

    Camelfilter
    Salem
    Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

    Messages:
    1,777
    Likes Received:
    3,474
    Excellent idea, thank you! I won a turkey at a BSA camp shoot...and do to life's twists and turns hadn't picked up a rifle for over 30 years. But, that simple brief experience solidified my pro-2a thought process thru out, including part of the want for us to move from Mass to a "free state".
     
    Ura-Ki, SKrueger, bbbass and 2 others like this.
  9. bigezfosheez

    bigezfosheez
    Washington County
    Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    247
    Likes Received:
    343
    You're all talking about unity, but I've just been drafting a big list of confirmed Libs from NWFA.
    So I know who to mess with or ignore.
     
    bbbass likes this.
  10. Caveman Jim

    Caveman Jim
    West of Oly
    Springer Slayer 2016 Volunteer 2017 Volunteer

    Messages:
    6,832
    Likes Received:
    13,665
    Surprised this isn't in the Ta<×%n, if anyone else had started it, it would be.... just sayin....:oops:
     
    Ura-Ki, SKrueger, etrain16 and 2 others like this.
  11. ShootFirst

    ShootFirst
    Southern Oregon
    Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    447
    Likes Received:
    515
    Confirmed? do they carry like Libcard ID's ?
    All kidding aside there is no ID for Liberals that I have ever seen, no more then Conservatives can be told apart. It seems like the list perhaps is what you think others are ? I just fail to figure how someone can pin point a liberal unless they tell you they are and in reference to OP topic this is the problem is many just have the tunnel vision of what they think and what they know are facts. But hey not my business, but isn't that how we all got in this mess to begin with Anti-Left being told, and taught the right-pro-gunner is wrong to like guns and judging without us evidence or trial.

    But what do I know !o_O
     
    Tom Louis, Ura-Ki, wired and 2 others like this.
  12. etrain16

    etrain16
    Oregon
    Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

    Messages:
    10,054
    Likes Received:
    26,502
    I guess Joe wanted the discussion out there. I'm a bit surprised too, but even though it got a little heated, no one was really being downright nasty to each other (some may disagree with my assessment there), just passionate folks all trying to find a way to protect the gun rights they cherish and finding disagreements about how to do that.
     
    bbbass, Ura-Ki, AndyinEverson and 4 others like this.
  13. SKrueger

    SKrueger
    SW Washington
    Platinum Supporter Platinum Supporter Silver Supporter

    Messages:
    1,721
    Likes Received:
    5,766
    It was heading in that direction. (IMHO) but because we have great and amazing people on this forum we realized it and turned the corner. That is another reason I respect so many on this site and appreciate @Joe Link for doing what he does.
     
    bbbass, Ura-Ki, ShootFirst and 4 others like this.
  14. SKrueger

    SKrueger
    SW Washington
    Platinum Supporter Platinum Supporter Silver Supporter

    Messages:
    1,721
    Likes Received:
    5,766
    @No_Regerts I wanted to say that I respect the heck out of you and all LEO's for what you do on a daily basis. It takes a special person to do what you do and deal with the crap you see on a daily basis.

    Thank you for putting on the uniform.
     
    bbbass, CrackPipe, Ura-Ki and 5 others like this.
  15. bigezfosheez

    bigezfosheez
    Washington County
    Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    247
    Likes Received:
    343
    Lib or not, you just made the list.
     
  16. bigezfosheez

    bigezfosheez
    Washington County
    Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    247
    Likes Received:
    343
    Somewhat relevant to this thread. Crowder is Pro-Gun, and Hickok is an easy target for parody.

     
  17. AndyinEverson

    AndyinEverson
    Everson, Wa.
    Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

    Messages:
    3,820
    Likes Received:
    15,143
    Why would you want to "mess with " someone?
    Why not respond with a polite question , concern or remark?

    I understand the desire to ignore those who you have no chance of effectively communicating with ... to deliberately "mess with" or stir things up ... Seems kinda counter productive to me.

    I am not asking to start a ruckus .. Just wondering about your statement is all.
    Andy
     
  18. bigezfosheez

    bigezfosheez
    Washington County
    Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    247
    Likes Received:
    343
    Haha, it's just jokes mate.

    I'm a very respectful person and will go out of my way to be nice to people I feel deserve it, but if someone wants to be a jerk or a whiny baby, I might just take some pleasure in messing with them.

    It's an agree to disagree with most people, but the current political/social climate has brought out the worst in some people and I think it's my duty to show them just how hard they will get trolled by doing so. Not saying anyone on this thread is acting that way. I think this whole kumbaya thing is a little unrealistic. I'm not going to join hands with radical socialists and feel joy by putting a gun in their grubby mits.
     
    No_Regerts likes this.
  19. Certaindeaf

    Certaindeaf
    SE Portland
    Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    9,514
    Likes Received:
    12,146
    Well bless your heart. didn't read
     
    No_Regerts likes this.
  20. bigezfosheez

    bigezfosheez
    Washington County
    Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    247
    Likes Received:
    343
    yeah, i got to page 5 and then skipped to like page 13. Don't even know what transpired in between.
     

Share This Page