Hickok45 on Gun Culture 2.0 - A Must Read

Discussion in 'General Firearm Discussion' started by Joe Link, Apr 18, 2017.

  1. Joe Link

    Joe Link
    Portland, OR
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    Two days ago Hickok45 made a post on his blog which has generated so many views his server has been down for most of today. I'm sure many of you have already seen this but I'm sure many haven't, and I think it's important to reinforce this point.

    Since the day this site went online it's been extremely important to me that we welcome and support all gun owners regardless of their non-firearm-related beliefs. This has been and always will be a single issue website. It's been challenging to say the least, but I have no doubt it's the right move. I've written about this many times around the forum, a couple examples here and here.

    When I read this it was as if I was reading my own thoughts, and I'm ecstatic that this was written by someone with a viewer base as large as Hickok45. I truly believe the only chance we have at maintaining and expanding our 2nd Amendment rights is walking the path of acceptance and welcoming others with open arms, even if they don't believe what we do at the moment. Minds change all the time, but only through positive interactions. We should all do our best to reflect these words in our actions.

    The original post can be found here, though the site is down right now: http://www.hickok45.com/gun-culture-2-0/

     
  2. AndyinEverson

    AndyinEverson
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    We in the shooting world need to be the best and most accepting ambassadors to our "culture".
    If we do not welcome new people or accept different ideas , eventually , there will be no one left in the shooting world.
    Andy
     
  3. DuneHopper

    DuneHopper
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    I think that we also must look politically as well, its easy to see " Democrat " and assume they are all anti-gun I can tell you even my own son who is a Democrat is more pro-gun then many in gun forums.
    He tells me all the time because he is pro-something else on a more left side people assume he is anti-gun.
    I have seen this along long time, and why majority can be see leaning that way no one takes it as a responsibility to embrace the Democrat Gun owner and worse yet most gun lobbies follow suit. I know a few in this group that are Dems and they keep quiet because of the label. I am Republican and mid-conservative as I don't care who you are you have rights to believe in what you want, as long as what you are doing doesn't harm, me, loved ones or society I don't care welcome to America home of the free because of the brave, who fought so all could have a voice. That does not mean any ones voice gets to be louder then anyone elses, its for an equal voice, just because you have a different view doesnt mean its gets to be louder.

    In Oregon that Senator Prozanski probably wouldn't be such a bad guy to work with on gun rights except he is alienated and gun lobbies do not even meet with him and each side despises the other. Many gun owners have stuck their heads deep in sand and are oblivious of how hate feeds hate. And its not getting better the line between is getting wider so much so that dragging those back from the dark side may be a thing from the past. What I see is some gun owners see and anti-gun person, that also may be liberal gay rights, LBGT pro-Muslim and host of others and wont discuss gun rights with them because they have different views on other stuff, same can be said about Conservatives that will be ignored by lefties on gun laws because they believe in God, are against Cannibus, or are anti-Muslim the fact both sides have different views slam the door shut on all views and that will get us no where for all time to come.

    It appears that people in place of power and influences are failing us as a society, in Oregon we
    have Senators, Representatives, Lobbyist,Congresssmen, Governors and other leaders that are so busy standing by their guns they simply cant see paste the hate for the other side. If this does not change it will end us all eventually either by pen or sword.

    But what do I know !

    SF
     
  4. No_Regerts

    No_Regerts
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    I think that's great and all, but I'm not sure it really works out in the long run. Its great if you're a 2A supporter, but it means nothing if you vote for anti-2A politicians because of your other beliefs.

    The mechanisms for how each party deals with problems almost makes me wonder if someone can be a true 2A supporter if they believe in greater government interventions as a way to solve problems. The government restricts liberties and the 2A isn't going to be exempt.

    Am I a religious zealot? No. Do I have beliefs and views that are contrary to the far right? Yes. BUT, I will always vote for the party that allows for the most personal responsibility and who is least likely to erode my rights. It aint the big D.
     
  5. No_Regerts

    No_Regerts
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    Really, if we just backed things up and somehow had politicians that would go by the CONSITUTION, all would really be solved. Its personal values and beliefs that take away from the constitution.
     
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2017
  6. Flopsweat

    Flopsweat
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    I have been telling people the following for years. Please read it to the end before freaking out.

    I'd make a pretty lousy Democrat. I'm all for helping the poor and tolerance of other viewpoints, but I believe in accountability for my own actions.

    I'd make a pretty lousy Republican. I'm all for self-sufficiency and personal liberty, but I don't believe in shoving my religion down other people's throats.

    I'd make pretty lousy Libertarian. I'm all for smaller government and election reform, but I don't believe in UFOs.

    I guess I'm just an American. You are too, right? :)
     
  7. Joe Link

    Joe Link
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    I agree with this. However, I think the gist has less to do with politics and more to do with how we welcome and treat fellow shooters (regardless of their politics).
     
  8. DuneHopper

    DuneHopper
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    Then Oregon will continue to strip rights while we kick and scream and stop nothing. I get the point, but if one is on the losing majority side to close discussion and do nothing else wont solve it no D needed its self destructive. For 8 years Oregon Republican voters did not vote in many places as low as 65% turn out that voting for D or R wont change anything until the majority is switched and that wont happen anytime soon is my take. I would love to see a 1970's Oregon again I just cant see that happening anytime soon, maybe not even in my life time as Dems have a strangle hold and have over a decade. I know what Oregon should look like I live in one of the most conservative places and its great here. But we hold a majority here and its a big majority has not changed and I hope never.:D
     
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  9. DuneHopper

    DuneHopper
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    So Joe, would you say though that a persons political view may and probably does help keep others at arms length and not want to help that person or bring them in to the circle of trust. ( meet the Falkers reference hehe). I think.... maybe I am wrong that some gun owners just do not trust anymore and reaching out is a huge difficulty for them?? How do gun owners build trust with those they think want to take their rights away ? Maybe I am seeing it wrong but seems a hard thing to over come.???
    :oops:
     
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  10. Flopsweat

    Flopsweat
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    And consider this: If a majority of Democrats supported the 2nd amendment, what good would an anti-gun platform do you as a politician? Sure they might still try to push stuff through, but they risk losing to a pro-gun Democrat next time. And politicians don't come from nowhere, remember. They come from the general population. Or Hades, maybe, I'm still not sure on that one.
     
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  11. DuneHopper

    DuneHopper
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    So the solution to a more unified support would be what then ??
     
  12. Flopsweat

    Flopsweat
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    For me, it's simple. We have common ground. When I golf, I don't ask the people golfing with me what party they support. I ask them what beer they drink! :D Shooting should be the same way.
    More gun owners. Take a liberal to the gun range day. Shut up about politics at the range and have fun.
     
  13. Boats

    Boats
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    So, we get to discuss this topic for a change?

    These soft hearted sentiments endorsed above defy experience and I take issue with them.

    No, you don't have to be a certain religion to be pro2A, but somewhere within your politics you have to find it in yourself to VOTE 2A, and the very bottom line fact is that there aren't nearly enough leftists who are willing to do so. They are the very familiar, "I support the 2A. . .BUT. . . .crowd." In this corner of the world, they would have put HRC into office without regard for your gun rights at all. They keep the governorships and legislatures blue too—and then far too many of them have gall to complain here about the local gun control efforts they have actively helped make possible. How are they not responsible?

    And the thing is, there WILL ALWAYS BE a "but" with these "2A supporters." You have to be a fool to believe they WANT TO COMBAT the restriction of their own rights. They have no influence on their side of the aisle, not even an ounce of juice. Why court them, so we can have more knowledgeable gun grabbers of the future?

    So, I suppose if one enjoys hearing lip service from such "allies," by all means enjoy your self-inflicted delusion.

    Relative to the population, the NRA and even more hardcore 2A groups are but a tiny fraction of the electorate, one that punches way above its weight. The NRA in particular is not about singing kumbaya with the "lefty pro 2A" enablers of their gun grabbing leadership. As much as anyone, the NRA put Gorsuch on the Supreme Court. The leftist "supporters" of the 2A would have seen Heller and MacDonald both relegated to historical footnotes of SCOTUS "wrong turns."

    The 2A doesn't need anyone of any particular ethnic group or creed to defend it. IT DOES REQUIRE its true believers to defend it, not a bunch of squishes with an endless list of other political priorities. Ones that Hickok 45 can't seem to see for what they are.:confused:
     
  14. Flopsweat

    Flopsweat
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    You're asking them to switch parties on a single issue. That's not going to happen. And just because they vote their party doesn't mean that they want to lose gun rights. It may mean that other issues are more important to them. 2A is a really big deal to me. It's not to every gun owner.
     
  15. Dyjital

    Dyjital
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    I am a conservative, believer fully in what Jesus Christ fulfilled on the cross to pay for all of our sins and I vote based on what I find morally right for everyone; born and unborn. (The previous statement is to show I'm not an on the fence person, but am fully committed.)

    With that said:
    I cringe when I go to a rally and some preacher opens in prayer, some Elvis wannabe makes an appearance...

    Right from the opening of a rally second amendment supporters are divided. I'll go shooting with somebody who may see differently on quite a few topics and that's OK.... cross that line (discuss it) another day if it ever needs.

    This wasn't a bash on the right or the left, calling the exclusion mentality out as I see it from their side.
     
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  16. Boats

    Boats
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    Lol. I think I am asking them to put up or shut up. They don't have to vote GOP. They need to rein in the anti clowns on their own side.

    They either can't, in which case they are useless, or they won't, making them worse than useless.

    You don't get to "support" the 2A, and empower gun grabbers, AND retain any credibility on the matter.
     
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  17. v0lcom13sn0w

    v0lcom13sn0w
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    for those of you who dont know me, i am not one to really push my right of center beliefs on anyone. i like to keep to myself and mainly express myself to those who are closest to me.

    just an example of one real life experience, i go shooting with my "left leaning liberal" friend who is "embarrassed by 2/3 the people who call themselves democrats" and voted for trump because he hates hildebeast (wanted bernie) and actually likes some of what Trump has promised to do.

    we grew up together, went to school together and all that. sure, we dont agree on politics always but, we just dont (rarely)really talk about that stuff when we hang out.i dont preach to him and he doesnt push his ideas upon me. sure, we talk about it SOMETIMES but never argue. just pick eachothers brain.

    one thing i like about him is that he "gets it" guns are not the problem and no amount of legislation will stop crime involving guns. it does not keep guns out of hands of criminals but only hurts law abiding. it is our inalienable right to keep and bear arms to keep the government in check and to provide a means for self defense(which is a natural right.) i STG he's closer to center than he really thinks. its funny.

    my point is, people are people. no two people think the same or agree on everything. that doesnt mean you cant be friends!

    we all should try to be excellent to everyone no matter their beliefs. doing this will go a long way.

    everytime i talk to him he has taken more and more of his "liberal" friends shooting who have all, at the end of the day, walked away thinking differently.
     
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2017
  18. v0lcom13sn0w

    v0lcom13sn0w
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    HAHA the UFO thing got me rollin:s0113:
     
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  19. nwslopoke

    nwslopoke
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    I've never been anti-gun but I am very late to gun ownership. Mostly due to location and economics. Actually the internet helped too. But that did allow me to sit back, watch and learn. There is a side of the gun culture that IS racist, not open to others, ect. I had to learn it's a free country. Let them be. I wish the NRA would do more to distance themselves from that element. But the bigger population of the gun culture is filled with normal Americans. Some struggling and some more well off and everything in between. That is the actual image that needs to be promoted.

    We usually don't appear on the main streams radar unless we're angry about something. Then we just seem angry. There goes those angry gunners again. Look at the Toy Drive the biker groups are now famous for. You know, those huggable bikers. However, I doubt 30 guys with ARs strapped to their backs doing a highway clean up or church car wash would have the same positive affect.
     
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  20. Veno

    Veno
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    I agree with you Joe. I think if people were more accepting of one another and talked more openly, they'd quickly find out they that they have a lot more in common and share similar goals, than they differ. That is, if you have the moral desire to be a good person and build off of that.

    Besides, the world would be a boring place if everyone shared the same ideas and perspectives.
     

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