Other State Hero or villain?

[ma96782]

Over reaction? Or saved lives? I wonder? Hummmm?

MSN

From the article.

"I quickly bum rushed, tackled him. And my first reaction was to make sure that I get a hold of the rifle. No matter what I grabbed, make sure I grabbed that rifle," Simpo said. "I had in my mind (that) I was going to get shot. I just had to bear the pain, I knew it was going to hurt, and I was like, 'Whatever I do, I cannot let go of this rifle.'"

Simpo was able to redirect the weapon upwards, toward the ceiling, as he pinned Herrera against the wall. Help quickly arrived, and Herrera was arrested without a single shot being fired.

Once under arrest, police took inventory of what he carried. Besides the rifle and Bible, they also found 120 rounds of ammunition and a handgun. However, since Herrera didn't actually shoot anyone, he did not commit a felony offense under Texas law.

Herrera was charged with a misdemeanor for the Galleria incident. Then, on March 18, he showed up at the Houston FBI headquarters asking to meet with the director of the agency. In that incident, he had a gun in the car. However, because no shots were fired and he didn't point the weapon at anyone, he was again just charged with a misdemeanor.

I'm not familiar with the laws of TX (or Huston proper). So then......I figure.......maybe a re-write of the current law (including possibly, open carry) might just be in order (or not)?

Aloha, Mark

PS.....as for showing up at the FBI Office?

Perhaps, he was there to complain about a civil rights violation? Rrrrrright.....being "bum rushed" by an officer of the law.

Read More

 

[Yarome]

I dunno about any of the facts surrounding this, but say.... they guy was in fact going to do a mass shooting, failed, but confesssed his intention. He got the maximum sentence. 1 year in jail (because he didn't actualy fire his weapon or harm anyone), while we were just talking about that other kid in another thread of getting 2 years for owning an SBR without a tax stamp and peacefully shooting on his own propety. Otherwise... a clean nosed upstanding citizen.

Me thinks somethin be ALL bubblegummed up! Go Brandon!!

 

[RobMa]

I dunno about any of the facts surrounding this, but say.... they guy was in fact going to do a mass shooting, failed, but confesssed his intention. He got the maximum sentence, 1 year in jail (because he didn't actualy fire his weapon or harm anyone), while we were just talking about that other kid in another thread of getting 2 years for owning an SBR without a tax stamp and peacefully shooting on his own propety. Otherwise... a clean nosed upstanding citizen.

Me thinks somethin be ALL bubblegummed up! Go Brandon!!

Yup, seems funny right? yet people do not seem to be able to connect the dots........

 

[ilikegunspdx]

I dunno about any of the facts surrounding this, but say.... they guy was in fact going to do a mass shooting, failed, but confesssed his intention. He got the maximum sentence. 1 year in jail (because he didn't actualy fire his weapon or harm anyone), while we were just talking about that other kid in another thread of getting 2 years for owning an SBR without a tax stamp and peacefully shooting on his own propety. Otherwise... a clean nosed upstanding citizen.

Me thinks somethin be ALL bubblegummed up! Go Brandon!!

Edit: I didn't read article but I assume from comments above this was a person stopped when going to commit mass murder.

Or the Seahawks left tackle from last year facing 1 year in jail for having an unloaded gun in his luggage. Why in the hell would a person with no intent to harm anyone but made a mistake get the same sentence as a thwarted mass murderer? Makes no sense!

Attempted mass murderer should get minimum of life in prison with no chance of parole. He should not benefit from the fact that he was stopped before killing multiple people. Gonna have to shoot first for any of these mass murderers. It's the only way to have justice and have other copycats think twice before killing innocents.

 

[salmon creek gary]

A non-event that should have resulted in assault charges against the officer. No indication that the man with a gun was doing anything except being present with a gun. Maybe open carry was prohibited at the mall, maybe not, but irrelevant in light of being "bum rushed" without provocation. I say "without provocation" because if the man had been behaving in a threatening or aggressive manner, or if investigation had determined that he was intent on mass murder, we would certainly have seen reporting about that back in February when the incident occurred, not at this late date. I call this report "agenda driven, timed to coincide with introduction of AWB in the House". One more incident intended to keep big bad guns on the front burner to keep the public inflamed.

 

[bradsteen]

Sounds like the dude with the rifle is mentally unbalanced. The article says surveillance footage shows him carrying the rifle in one hand; would be interesting to see that footage to better understand what the LEO observed - if he was brandishing the weapon, pointing it at other people, making threatening statements, etc., or if it was just hanging at his side.

I am curious how the law treats off-duty LEOs working side jobs where they end up using force, arresting someone, etc. Is he held to the same standard as if he were on duty? Is the department liable for his actions while working the side job?

 

[The B]

it doesnt sound like we have any idea at all what his intention was. what crimes was he charged with? is it illegal to have guns in the mall? and then again at FBI - had a gun in the car. how'd they even find that out? what was he charged with that time?

the whole thing is weird and sounds like zero crimes have even been committed. has the suspect made any statements?

i dont think i criticize the officer for his actions... dude was wearing a spiked mask and carrying the rifle in his hands? loaded out with extra mags and a sidearm? i probably would have taken some action against that also... consequences be damned. but once the dust is settled, what were the crimes?

sounds like mental health intervention is needed here, not criminal charges.

 

[ma96782]

Mask wearing in public?




Even the Neo Nazis have/wear masks.


Do you actually believe that maybe......they are covering their faces so as NOT to be identifiable/held responsible for their criminal acts? That is.....should/when they occur. And, that also goes for the "uniform" of the day. Think Antifa style of clothing (black, black and black).

Nah.....they are all Peaceful Protesters.

A "spiked mask" is just a "variety". Call it an individual's choice.

BUT, But, but.....the last I heard was that......there were no laws against wearing a mask in public (in Portland anyway).

Aloha, Mark

PS.....as for : How do you approach an armed and masked individual?

Well, there is probably a written acceptable protocol for that. In addition to everything else. Check your copy of the "Police Manual of Acceptable Public Interactions". LOL.

 

[OregonForest]

Edit: I didn't read article but I assume from comments above this was a person stopped when going to commit mass murder.

Or the Seahawks left tackle from last year facing 1 year in jail for having an unloaded gun in his luggage. Why in the hell would a person with no intent to harm anyone but made a mistake get the same sentence as a thwarted mass murderer? Makes no sense!

Attempted mass murderer should get minimum of life in prison with no chance of parole. He should not benefit from the fact that he was stopped before killing multiple people. Gonna have to shoot first for any of these mass murderers. It's the only way to have justice and have other copycats think twice before killing innocents.

The people currently running our government think that violent criminals should not be held accountable for their actions, while non-violent citizens should be punished as harshly as possible if they accidentally break any of our asanine laws. They want to make it illegal to protect yourself while giving legal immunity to the criminals doing the attacking. The situation is beyond backwards, its completely bubblegumed.

 

[Yarome]

sounds like mental health intervention is needed here, not criminal charges.

Mental health issues are certainly out of control these days, but I don't believe they excuse criminal penalties in all cases just because, "my mommy didn't love me enough". IMO, there are physically deficient mental issues that may justify leniency, but by and large, poor mental health is just as much a personal responsibility as drug use/abuse or something as simple as being honest in your dealings with others. We choose how to filter and respond to our basic emotions. Ie., No one has involuntary control over a person or "makes you" lash out with violence.

You can blame society, which certainly is largely enabling and does play a part in the level of difficulty in maintaining a healthy mental state, but it doesn't excuse personal resposibility. The vast majority deal with the same stressors, exposures, and situations we all do without making the decision to end their lives... or... 'F it! I'm gonna go kill as many people as I can!".

My vote, incarceration to the fullest extent... with mandatory mental treatment. "I'm all better now" doesn't fly with me.

 

[ilikegunspdx]

Mental health issues are certainly out of control these days, but I don't believe they excuse criminal penalties in all cases just because, "my mommy didn't love me enough". IMO, there are physically deficient mental issues that may justify leniency, but by and large, poor mental health is just as much a personal responsibility as drug use/abuse or something as simple as being honest in your dealings with others. We choose how to filter and respond to our basic emotions. Ie., No one has involuntary control over a person or "makes you" lash out with violence.

You can blame society, which certainly is largely enabling and does play a part in the level of difficulty in maintaining a healthy mental state, but it doesn't excuse personal resposibility. The vast majority deal with the same stressors, exposures, and situations we all do without making the decision to end their lives... or... 'F it! I'm gonna go kill as many people as I can!".

My vote, incarceration to the fullest extent... with mandatory mental treatment. "I'm all better now" doesn't fly with me.

In Portland if you are declared mentally challenged, its a license to do whatever you want for the rest of your life without any sort of penalty. Fe this guy has been arrested 53 times for breaking into poeple's houses, stealing, exposing himself, going though people's underwear drawers. Each time they just let him go.

Victim: Burglary suspect ‘doesn’t have right to terrorize us’

A man arrested for multiple break-ins — whose cases keep getting dropped because he has a traumatic brain injury — was back in court Thursday to hear the latest charges against him.

www.koin.com

 

[bradsteen]

Mental health issues are certainly out of control these days, but I don't believe they excuse criminal penalties in all cases just because, "my mommy didn't love me enough". IMO, there are physically deficient mental issues that may justify leniency, but by and large, poor mental health is just as much a personal responsibility as drug use/abuse or something as simple as being honest in your dealings with others. We choose how to filter and respond to our basic emotions. Ie., No one has involuntary control over a person or "makes you" lash out with violence.

You can blame society, which certainly is largely enabling and does play a part in the level of difficulty in maintaining a healthy mental state, but it doesn't excuse personal resposibility. The vast majority deal with the same stressors, exposures, and situations we all do without making the decision to end their lives... or... 'F it! I'm gonna go kill as many people as I can!".

My vote, incarceration to the fullest extent... with mandatory mental treatment. "I'm all better now" doesn't fly with me.

I agree that people should be held accountable for their actions. That being said, I have a decent amount of experience working with people who struggle with mental illness in various forms. Developmental disabilities, autism, Asperger's, schizophrenia, extreme forms of depression, PTSD, etc. aren't conditions you can just "will" your way out of.

When you're living with mental illness, it's like your car is stalled on the side of the freeway, and you're watching as people zip past you at 80mph. You don't know what's wrong with your car, but it's not running like everyone else's. You have needs, wants, dreams and aspirations, but while everyone else is getting married, having kids, excelling in their careers, etc., you're stuck on the shoulder watching life pass you by and wishing desperately that you could do all those things too.

This creates a psychological rift between you and your support system - family, friends, coworkers, etc. - because they keep moving forward while you stay on the side of the road, and none of them understand that your car is broken down. They stop and try to help, but they don't grasp the totality of circumstances. They say "just turn the car on, put it in gear, and get going! It's not that hard." When you reply that it doesn't work that way, that something is really wrong with the car, they don't try to help you diagnose the problem - instead, they blame you. They say things like "you're just not trying hard enough" or "you're doing this to yourself".

Mental illness isn't a choice any more than cancer is a choice. Nobody wakes up one morning and decides "you know what? I'm going to be really f-ing depressed for the rest of my life". No war veteran or trauma survivor says "I want to relive my most horrific life experiences over and over again. That'll be fun." No schizophrenic says "you know what would be a real hoot? Hallucinating and thinking that everyone around me is somehow part of a huge conspiracy to cause me harm." Nobody with a chemical imbalance says "I love not being in control of my emotions or how I react to things". These conditions are involuntary, and people who suffer from them genuinely need help.

Also, people who suffer from mental illness are more likely to abuse substances as a form of self-medication or escapism. Prescription meds for many mental illnesses are loaded with terrible side-effects, and often make the person taking it feel disoriented, lethargic, or hollow. So they have to choose between a "normal" life where they're doped up and feeling like garbage, or the unaltered life, where they stop taking their meds and slowly spiral out of control. All while everyone around them tells them to just snap out of it, as though they can just rewire their brains through force of will alone.

Can you imagine how frustrating that must be? I'm not saying this is a justification for acts of violence; I am saying that frustration has a compounding effect on all the other stressors a person goes through in life. It's like having to carry a boulder up a hill while everyone around you only has to carry pebbles or small rocks. Some people won't be able to deal with it. That frustration combined with those stressors may eventually turn to rage and resentment, and finally boil over into acts of violence. In other cases (i.e. schizophrenia) their mental state may devolve into hallucinations, paranoia, or other symptoms to the point where they honestly believe they must lash out at things they perceive to be threats to their lives or safety.

I don't have all the answers, and I completely agree that a person who causes harm to others must be held accountable for their actions. However, I also think we need to acknowledge the realities of mental illness, try to better understand how people are affected by them, and do what we can to help those who suffer from them so that either (a) they can eventually regain some semblance of control over their lives and become productive members of society, or (b) they can be treated and monitored to ensure they don't become a threat to themselves or others.

 

[Howard1955]

I agree that people should be held accountable for their actions. That being said, I have a decent amount of experience working with people who struggle with mental illness in various forms. Developmental disabilities, autism, Asperger's, schizophrenia, extreme forms of depression, PTSD, etc. aren't conditions you can just "will" your way out of.

When you're living with mental illness, it's like your car is stalled on the side of the freeway, and you're watching as people zip past you at 80mph. You don't know what's wrong with your car, but it's not running like everyone else's. You have needs, wants, dreams and aspirations, but while everyone else is getting married, having kids, excelling in their careers, etc., you're stuck on the shoulder watching life pass you by and wishing desperately that you could do all those things too.

This creates a psychological rift between you and your support system - family, friends, coworkers, etc. - because they keep moving forward while you stay on the side of the road, and none of them understand that your car is broken down. They stop and try to help, but they don't grasp the totality of circumstances. They say "just turn the car on, put it in gear, and get going! It's not that hard." When you reply that it doesn't work that way, that something is really wrong with the car, they don't try to help you diagnose the problem - instead, they blame you. They say things like "you're just not trying hard enough" or "you're doing this to yourself".

Mental illness isn't a choice any more than cancer is a choice. Nobody wakes up one morning and decides "you know what? I'm going to be really f-ing depressed for the rest of my life". No war veteran or trauma survivor says "I want to relive my most horrific life experiences over and over again. That'll be fun." No schizophrenic says "you know what would be a real hoot? Hallucinating and thinking that everyone around me is somehow part of a huge conspiracy to cause me harm." Nobody with a chemical imbalance says "I love not being in control of my emotions or how I react to things". These conditions are involuntary, and people who suffer from them genuinely need help.

Also, people who suffer from mental illness are more likely to abuse substances as a form of self-medication or escapism. Prescription meds for many mental illnesses are loaded with terrible side-effects, and often make the person taking it feel disoriented, lethargic, or hollow. So they have to choose between a "normal" life where they're doped up and feeling like garbage, or the unaltered life, where they stop taking their meds and slowly spiral out of control. All while everyone around them tells them to just snap out of it, as though they can just rewire their brains through force of will alone.

Can you imagine how frustrating that must be? I'm not saying this is a justification for acts of violence; I am saying that frustration has a compounding effect on all the other stressors a person goes through in life. It's like having to carry a boulder up a hill while everyone around you only has to carry pebbles or small rocks. Some people won't be able to deal with it. That frustration combined with those stressors may eventually turn to rage and resentment, and finally boil over into acts of violence. In other cases (i.e. schizophrenia) their mental state may devolve into hallucinations, paranoia, or other symptoms to the point where they honestly believe they must lash out at things they perceive to be threats to their lives or safety.

I don't have all the answers, and I completely agree that a person who causes harm to others must be held accountable for their actions. However, I also think we need to acknowledge the realities of mental illness, try to better understand how people are affected by them, and do what we can to help those who suffer from them so that either (a) they can eventually regain some semblance of control over their lives and become productive members of society, or (b) they can be treated and monitored to ensure they don't become a threat to themselves or others.

That was extremely well said.

 

[Will_White]

From what the article says and my understanding of Texas's laws there was no crime committed. In the FBI incident he left his gun in his car so he wouldn't be bringing a weapon into a federal building, there's nothing that says what he did in the FBI office or even what he was charged with, but it sounds like he needs mental help.

 

[Yarome]

However, I also think we need to acknowledge the realities of mental illness, try to better understand how people are affected by them, and do what we can to help those who suffer from them so that either (a) they can eventually regain some semblance of control over their lives and become productive members of society, or (b) they can be treated and monitored to ensure they don't become a threat to themselves or others.

I agree. My comment also acknowledged that those with physically deficient mental issues does allow for some leniency, but talking strictly in regard to the recent cases of mass shooters, they don't appear to be falling under any of those categories. The majority, obviously, are not the pictures of good mental health, and likely a product of an enabling and entitlement based society, but were for all intents and purposes "functional" and capable individuals.

Clinical depression, PTSD, etc... I would also agree that those are largely beyond an individuals control, to an extent. They do not, however, make a person prone, beyond their control, to commit acts of mass murder. By and large, those individuals still have an understanding of right and wrong, pulling a tigger is still a "choice" and they should face the full consequences for their actions. Unfortunate as their circumstances might be, that doesn't give them a free pass to infringe on others given rights to life and the persuit of happiness, IMHO.

Just for context though, I don't personally agree that "involuntary momentary insanity" is a valid defense either. "Feelings" don't force you to act a certain way. How you act on feelings is aways a choice. I agree though that it's easier to believe "I had no choice" than to accept personal responsibility. Human nature.

 

[Stomper]

In Portland if you are declared mentally challenged, its a license to do whatever you want for the rest of your life without any sort of penalty. Fe this guy has been arrested 53 times for breaking into poeple's houses, stealing, exposing himself, going though people's underwear drawers. Each time they just let him go.

Victim: Burglary suspect ‘doesn’t have right to terrorize us’

A man arrested for multiple break-ins — whose cases keep getting dropped because he has a traumatic brain injury — was back in court Thursday to hear the latest charges against him.

www.koin.com

If I caught that guy breaking into my house, his brain would suffer another traumatic injury…. It'd be splattered all over the wall behind him.

 

[bkroger86]

The perfect time for a Good Samaritan to intervene is between 1-4 victims. 0 victims can be considered an overreaction, and 5+ victims is another headline mass shooting.

 

[bkroger86]

sounds like mental health intervention is needed here, not criminal charges.

Won't pass a 4473 after that.

 

[nwslopoke]

A non-event that should have resulted in assault charges against the officer. No indication that the man with a gun was doing anything except being present with a gun. Maybe open carry was prohibited at the mall, maybe not, but irrelevant in light of being "bum rushed" without provocation. I say "without provocation" because if the man had been behaving in a threatening or aggressive manner, or if investigation had determined that he was intent on mass murder, we would certainly have seen reporting about that back in February when the incident occurred, not at this late date. I call this report "agenda driven, timed to coincide with introduction of AWB in the House". One more incident intended to keep big bad guns on the front burner to keep the public inflamed.

Play stupid games, win stupid prizes. In these times you want to push lines unprovoked you get what you get. No one walking their dog or going to church were harmed. Just idiots pushing lines. Maybe he was the next mass shooter or willing to cause the mall to panic.

 

[ma96782]

I agree that people should be held accountable for their actions. That being said, I have a decent amount of experience working with people who struggle with mental illness in various forms. Developmental disabilities, autism, Asperger's, schizophrenia, extreme forms of depression, PTSD, etc. aren't conditions you can just "will" your way out of.

When you're living with mental illness, it's like your car is stalled on the side of the freeway, and you're watching as people zip past you at 80mph. You don't know what's wrong with your car, but it's not running like everyone else's. You have needs, wants, dreams and aspirations, but while everyone else is getting married, having kids, excelling in their careers, etc., you're stuck on the shoulder watching life pass you by and wishing desperately that you could do all those things too.

This creates a psychological rift between you and your support system - family, friends, coworkers, etc. - because they keep moving forward while you stay on the side of the road, and none of them understand that your car is broken down. They stop and try to help, but they don't grasp the totality of circumstances. They say "just turn the car on, put it in gear, and get going! It's not that hard." When you reply that it doesn't work that way, that something is really wrong with the car, they don't try to help you diagnose the problem - instead, they blame you. They say things like "you're just not trying hard enough" or "you're doing this to yourself".

Mental illness isn't a choice any more than cancer is a choice. Nobody wakes up one morning and decides "you know what? I'm going to be really f-ing depressed for the rest of my life". No war veteran or trauma survivor says "I want to relive my most horrific life experiences over and over again. That'll be fun." No schizophrenic says "you know what would be a real hoot? Hallucinating and thinking that everyone around me is somehow part of a huge conspiracy to cause me harm." Nobody with a chemical imbalance says "I love not being in control of my emotions or how I react to things". These conditions are involuntary, and people who suffer from them genuinely need help.

Also, people who suffer from mental illness are more likely to abuse substances as a form of self-medication or escapism. Prescription meds for many mental illnesses are loaded with terrible side-effects, and often make the person taking it feel disoriented, lethargic, or hollow. So they have to choose between a "normal" life where they're doped up and feeling like garbage, or the unaltered life, where they stop taking their meds and slowly spiral out of control. All while everyone around them tells them to just snap out of it, as though they can just rewire their brains through force of will alone.

Can you imagine how frustrating that must be? I'm not saying this is a justification for acts of violence; I am saying that frustration has a compounding effect on all the other stressors a person goes through in life. It's like having to carry a boulder up a hill while everyone around you only has to carry pebbles or small rocks. Some people won't be able to deal with it. That frustration combined with those stressors may eventually turn to rage and resentment, and finally boil over into acts of violence. In other cases (i.e. schizophrenia) their mental state may devolve into hallucinations, paranoia, or other symptoms to the point where they honestly believe they must lash out at things they perceive to be threats to their lives or safety.

I don't have all the answers, and I completely agree that a person who causes harm to others must be held accountable for their actions. However, I also think we need to acknowledge the realities of mental illness, try to better understand how people are affected by them, and do what we can to help those who suffer from them so that either (a) they can eventually regain some semblance of control over their lives and become productive members of society, or (b) they can be treated and monitored to ensure they don't become a threat to themselves or others.

IMHO......some "mentally challenged individuals" needs to be locked up/away for their own good, if not/and for the good of society.

So.......who makes the call?

Well.......it's not like I make the "big bucks" or have the "necessary sheep skins" to do that. But......there probably are people who would be willing to take the job.

LOL.

Then......
Opportunities happen......it's for society to use them wisely.

Since he has been in the news recently. Think about John Hinkley. Should we have waited? Or.......aren't we doing society a favor (even possibly, saving him from a bad choice) if we/society had acted earlier?

Then think about.....Lynette Squeaky Fromme. How many "chances" are enough?

Who is MORE important? The lives of the many or the life of the one?

In the case mentioned in Post #11.
Imagine.......some nervous homeowner. BANG, Bang, bang......as he's climbing through the doggie door.

Blame the homeowner? Good shoot or Bad shoot?
Blame the guy "breaking in"? Nah....already got his defense down pat/free passes.
Blame the previous Judges, who had let him go? I suspect, that's NOT gonna work.
Or blame the gun? Rrrright....sue the gun manufacturer. Guns are evil.

What about the homeowner's mental state? Now that he/she/whatever.....has taken a life?


Aloha, Mark

PS......For the record, I have worked with the Mentally Challenged and the Developmentally Disabled, etc....