Here's a new one... for me anyway. Reloading disaster

[salmonriverjohn]

This^^^ it could cost if you don't pay attention.

.223/5.56 is the only case I've had the problem of Bullet Set Back. I found it was a combination of case wall thickness and/or case length preventing a proper crimp.
Since I've stared trimming every case and switched to a LEE Factory (Tapered) Crimp Die, I haven't had any more problems.

 

[Velzey]

And this is how people end up in the hospital!

Glad you spotted it! And someone needs a beating......

 

[Norwester]

Not a beating, a little education perhaps. Simple mistakes have complicated results, slow down, proceed carefully.
Properly reloaded ammo is the safest thing in the world, UN-properly, the most Dangerous.
All reloaded ammo (from unknown source) should be a components only proposition.
AND Valued as such.

 

[OreShooter]

Reloads by others (RBO) can be scarey. I got some 38 spl rounds in a purchase from an estate from someone I knew, not a total stranger. They had been loaded by an old guy who died from cancer. I didn't think about what the drugs might be doin' to his mental condition until AFTER I fired a couple of the 38 spl rounds. Had to replace the cylinder on the 38 but lesson learned. I won't buy/trade/receive ammo RBO unless I take it as parts and pull it all. And the suggestion to "candle" all brass of questionable lineage is a good one too.[/QUOTE]

 

[par442k]

Wow... I have been reloading for in the neighborhood of 40 years and never seen this before... Maybe some one can explain this one for me.

My son was given several hundred rounds of . 223 ammo which had been purchased apparently by a friend of his at a gun show . The friend tried to chamber a few rounds and they wouldn't feed. So rather than throw them out, he asked if my son wanted them and he said sure, he'd take them.
So, my son brings them home and asks me about them and I advise him to not trust unknown reloads, but rather use my collet puller to salvage the components and burn off the powder since we don't know what it is. So, he starts pulling rounds apart and just for fun, we weigh the charges for 3 random shells and find the charge weight varies by as much as 5 grains on what seems to be a target of 24 grain loads. I am thinking "ok, good call pulling these apart because whoever loaded these up obviously didn't watch what they were doing very closely "
As the operation proceeds he finds some of the case necks are cracked, others are missing part of the neck entirely. Here's where the part comes in that I am really scratching my head over though...
One of the rounds he pulls the bullet from, turns the shell upside down the powder won't come out. I told him that likely the guy had gotten lube in the case.. sure enough the powder comes out in clumps like you would expect if there was lube in the case... while trying to tap the case and remove the powder, A SECOND BULLET APPEARS THAT WAS INSIDE THE CASE WITH THE POWDER!

In all my years of experience, which granted has been on single stage presses, I have never seen anything like that before. How on earth can someone punch a bullet all the way into the case with the powder and then seat another bullet in the neck on top of the whole mess?!
I shudder to think what might have happened if someone had actually fired this round!
How can someone screw up a reload this badly accidentally ? Is this an inept progressive press operator at work? I can think of no way to make such a mistake with a single stage press.

Did you happen to weight the powder from that particular round?
I dont see any way that you could still fit 24g of powder in a .223 case with a bullet taking up internal volume.
I load with a Dillon 650 progressive, and it is very accurate. Pretty much impossible to process a round if a bullet was inside a case. Maybe some of the others are different?
It would seem that particular round was done intentional.......very scary indeed to think those kinds of reloads are out there.

 

[Member 5605]

Did you happen to weight the powder from that particular round?
I dont see any way that you could still fit 24g of powder in a .223 case with a bullet taking up internal volume.
I load with a Dillon 650 progressive, and it is very accurate. Pretty much impossible to process a round if a bullet was inside a case. Maybe some of the others are different?
It would seem that particular round was done intentional.......very scary indeed to think those kinds of reloads are out there.

As proof you can load 25.5gr of IMR3031 in a .223case. When 24.0 is your target under compressed load.... 25.5 happened when jugs of powder were changed and density changed with it.

 

[Crohnos01]

You know, I didn't weigh the powder from that particular round. By the time we found that round it was late in the process of breaking the components up and we were just dumping powder into a jug to be burned later, so the powder had already been added to the jug. I see your point though... it would be interesting to know what that rounds charge was.

 

[Certaindeaf]

You know, I didn't weigh the powder from that particular round. By the time we found that round it was late in the process of breaking the components up and we were just dumping powder into a jug to be burned later, so the powder had already been added to the jug. I see your point though... it would be interesting to know what that rounds charge was.

I think like someone else said, it could perhaps be that a live round was "decapped", pushing the bullet down past the neck and then on to the charging station where what powder was being dispensed was dispensed and what couldn't be contained within the case spilled out and over the case mouth (spatial physics and gravity being what they are and all) and a new bullet was jammed on home at the seating station. Some "progressives" are quite automated these days.
Or, as at least a couple have said, it was intentional.
anyhoo

 

[AMProducts]

So to answer your question... sometimes when running a progressive press, when the press jams it can smash a bullet back into the case, sometimes the powder is shaken out or it ends up on the bench, and an inattentive operator throws it back into the feeder, and maybe that same inattentive operator simply ignores the warnings and loads it with powder and another bullet. I actually caught this exact error while training a guy.

Sensor went off, he tried to forward the press I said "stop, and see what the problem is, take every case out and start over if you have to" and sure enough, one case had a bullet in the bottom of it. I gave him the "see, this is why we train this way, you get to be the hands, and I get to be the brains until you develop your own".

Also, as far as the primers go, looks a lot like someone seated the primers in the case without swaging/reaming the pockets first (when they reloaded it). Everything else looks pretty standard for low-quality workmanship.

 

[Crohnos01]

Lol... I like that... "until you develop your own"....

Thanks! That's the best explanation I've heard yet. But for the love of Peter, Paul & Mary...... That's a great way to maim or kill someone... I've thought about getting a progressive press a few times, but I think I will just stick to the single stage for fear of something stupid like this... Although as you describe it, the equipment gives you warnings.... if you're intelligent enough to pay heed.

 

[par442k]

Lol... I like that... "until you develop your own"....

Thanks! That's the best explanation I've heard yet. But for the love of Peter, Paul & Mary...... That's a great way to maim or kill someone... I've thought about getting a progressive press a few times, but I think I will just stick to the single stage for fear of something stupid like this... Although as you describe it, the equipment gives you warnings.... if you're intelligent enough to pay heed.

I would think AMP is talking about a motorized fully automatic high speed mass production unit with bullet feeds and all. I guess like all things mechanical....the machine is only as good as its operator.....
I am talking about a hand cranked type unit where bullets are placed one per with my fingers....LOL

 

[AMProducts]

I would think AMP is talking about a motorized fully automatic high speed mass production unit with bullet feeds and all. I guess like all things mechanical....the machine is only as good as its operator.....
I am talking about a hand cranked type unit where bullets are placed one per with my fingers....LOL

No, this was on a 1050... It's one of those things where to the "new hire" there's a lot going on, and really requires both attention to detail, as well as good mechanical feel. I think the guy had worked there for a grand total of a week when this happened. (up till this point he was sweeping floors, pulling bullets, and doing some basic QC training)

The ammoload machines are a bit finicky, and just to spend more time producing rather than clearing jammed material out of them anything that looks even slightly suspect goes into the scrap bucket. In all honesty, the ammoloads when they're running well produce so much ammo that it's cheaper to run new components than deal with the headaches and crashes caused by reload brass, pulled brass, or anything else that might not be to a uniform spec. If I've got good components (best case is primed brass) a mark X will spit out ~4000rds/hr, if I'm futzing with primer tubes, that drops to about 2500-3K/hr. My average shop rate is $60/hr, so you go from $25/K to 15/K for loading, and then figure the higher retail value of new ammo vs reload, the labor rate totally offsets the cost of new production.