Henry's lastest.... the 410 "AXE"

[Geardo]

I CHOSE a .410 Circuit Judge "shotty" for my wife to defend her position in our back office. It has an 18.5" barrel, takes 3" .410 shells, and has a revolving cylinder with 5 shots. She can no longer rack a slide (on a handgun) and the weapon has no controls to defeat her efforts, and can get off shots faster than a pump gun. The office opens around a corner into the living room area so the distance is perfect for Winchester .410 PDX1 defense loads (I don't think you want to get shot with one)

This makes perfect sense, is a good use case for the gun, ammo, and user, and I applaud your efforts to sufficiently arm your wife despite her physical condition.

 

[Kruel J]

This makes perfect sense, is a good use case for the gun, ammo, and user, and I applaud your efforts to sufficiently arm your wife despite her physical condition.

Before my dad went into full time care, he had a Shockwave in .410. He could operate it from his wheelchair, the strap on the pump helped him cycle it despite chronic arthritis and the SD buckshot loads he kept in it would certainly ruin someone's day.

.410 isn't for everyone, and I even agree that it's not the best choice for most. But it has its place and is by no means a toy.

 

[Geardo]

Tavo Lean, And while I don't want to go into my self defense history, it is very extensive for a civilian. Not classes, but honest to goodness fight for your life. I feel comfortable with a shockwave amongst other guns. But I know why in a house with twisted strangely narrow hallways. I might pick a short, short range weapon. I also know in what situations I would prefer what. A hammer is not the be all, and all tool, nor is a screwdriver. Without knowing my ground, so to speak, you can't know the ideal tools and tactics to defend it.

Fair enough. Good point on not knowing your house and history.

I still think its a dumb gun, but I am glad it works for you.

 

[CountryGent]

At $900 MSRP that will be what - maybe High Fives Low Sixes for LGS price?

I could live with that.

Sounds about right. Although it isn't something I'm interested in its cool to see manufacturers still putting out some unique offerings.

Agreed. In an era of "ho hum, it be the same", it is nice seeing a different offering.

 

[Geardo]

Before my dad went into full time care, he had a Shockwave in .410. He could operate it from his wheelchair, the strap on the pump helped him cycle it despite chronic arthritis and the SD buckshot loads he kept in it would certainly ruin someone's day.

.410 isn't for everyone, and I even agree that it's not the best choice for most. But it has its place and is by no means a toy.

Yeah that makes sense. My biggest issue with this gun is the lever, which I assume is hell on arthritic hands.

Would an AR pistol not have been a better solution for him though? Slap a d60 in there so he never has to reload. Heck some "braces" actually work as braces and he could have done a drive by, shooting with 1 hand and steering with the other!

 

[Kruel J]

Yeah that makes sense. My biggest issue with this gun is the lever, which I assume is hell on arthritic hands.

Would an AR pistol not have been a better solution for him though? Slap a d60 in there so he never has to reload. Heck some "braces" actually work as braces and he could have done a drive by, shooting with 1 hand and steering with the other!

He can't operate a charge handle or even the bolt release. So no. An AR would not have been a better solution. Neither would a 10/22 since he can BARELY operate the bolt. You seem to be shoving semi-auto "modern" options into your posts. I get it man. I have LOTS of stuff like that.

But modern tactical-type firearms are NOT the only option for SD.

 

[Geardo]

10/22 with a Red Dot... in the home?

Sweet Lord there is so much wrong with that idea!!! A 22lr will go right thru layers of drywall. Gonna keep a round in the chamber? What about an older person remembering to take the safety off? If no round in the chamber, the action has to be racked, a tough job in the dark for old arthritic hands!

A Red Dot inside, in an emergency? Better have a light mounted or you're still not seeing the target! And an old person remembering to turn it on... Old people are easily flustered.

This is not a realistic option.

Gotta use what works. Is a safety less cumbersome than a lever? Only having 5 in the tube?

Neither are ideal.

Maybe a pump action .410 WITH A STOCK would be best.....

In my personal expereince the old person gravitated to the 10/22 as the easiest to shoot. One in the chamber, safety on is probably best. Loaded with CCI mini mags.

The red dot can be left on turned down low. A pressure bad would be nice for the light, or just leaving on some night lights in the house.

Gotta work with what you got.

Look up energy, weight, velocity of .22 vs .410 buck shot, I doubt there is much of a diff.

Given equal energy, the higher velocity lower weight bullet will penetrate less, usually.

Best is a suppressed 5.56, but, ya know, laws and such.

 

[Geardo]

He can't operate a charge handle or even the bolt release. So no. An AR would not have been a better solution. Neither would a 10/22 since he can BARELY operate the bolt. You seem to be shoving semi-auto "modern" options into your posts. I get it man. I have LOTS of stuff like that.

But modern tactical-type firearms are NOT the only option for SD.

Even with oversize charging handles and extended bolt release? I bet you dollars to donuts I could have built an AR he could run just fine. Usually its a mental block or technique issue....if its a hardware issue, can bump up buffer weight and reduce spring force, and just remove the bolt catch.

Yes I think SA makes the most sense if one can manage, or as another poster said, the circuit judge is a good middle ground.

 

[Kruel J]

I bet you dollars to donuts I could have built an AR he could run just fine. Usually its a mental block or technique issue....if its a hardware issue, can bump up buffer weight and reduce spring force, and just remove the bolt catch.

Dude. You don't know jack about my dad's health or firearm experience.

Tread freaking lightly. Or better yet, don't make stupid "bets" when you don't know what you are talking about.

 

[titsonritz]

Is that their new body spray fragrance?

 

[Geardo]

Dude. You don't know jack about my dad's health or firearm experience.

Tread freaking lightly. Or better yet, don't make stupid "bets" when you don't know what you are talking about.

Fair enough, my apoligies.

 

[Kruel J]

Fair enough, my apoligies.

Accepted. We're good.

 

[bbbass]

Gotta use what works.

.22lr long gun IMO remains a poor choice vs a .410 shotgun. The shot charge placed on the target in one shot alone is more than what would be the result of a continued yanking of the 10/22 trigger.

As for the risk of overpenetration, I'd have to look up the SD of various shot sizes @1300fps vs .22lr 36gr or 40gr at 1250fps.

Is a safety less cumbersome than a lever? Only having 5 in the tube?

Sorry man, I'm not involved in that argument... I only said that a .22lr rifle is the worst choice for a home defense weapon.

In my personal expereince the old person gravitated to the 10/22 as the easiest to shoot. One in the chamber, safety on is probably best. Loaded with CCI mini mags.

This may hold true on the range, but I was talking home defense... what someone gravitates to might not be the best choice. But if that's all the person can shoot, then they should go with that. What is disagree with, is your previous assertion that a .22lr 10/22 is the best choice for an older person. It may be, or maybe not. Depends on the person, on the house. I'm assuming home defense because the old dude/woman is not going to heft it around town with them.

The red dot can be left on turned down low. A pressure bad would be nice for the light, or just leaving on some night lights in the house.

Personally, we leave some background lighting on and use mounted tactical lights when possible (at home distances these shoot to the center of the light circle, a pad is nice but an easy to reach push button works too). I do have red dot optics on the shotty and AR pistol, but leaving a red dot on IMO is a good way to have a dead optic when it is needed most... especially for older people who tend to forget to check batteries, etc. I rely on the light, not on the optic.

Gotta work with what you got.

Within reason. What you got could be an infinite range of circumstances, disabilities, etc... generalizations don't seem to be helpful if this thread is any indication at all.

Best is a suppressed 5.56, but, ya know, laws and such.

I like a 5.56 AR pistol for myself for HD (and I'm 67, moderately elderly) but I wouldn't put one in the hands of my wife, or any other person not able to operate it's controls, or one unfamiliar/untrained in their use.

 

[Geardo]

I don't think I asserted a .22 is best, or even better than a .410. Just that a 10/22 might be an option to consider for an elderly person than the "Axe"

Really my issue with the AXE is lack of a stock, my second issue is the lever, my third is capacity.

You are right a .410 has more energy than a .22, but both are weak, and with an old person, I would want them to have the ability to miss a few times and still keep shooting, cus they are probably going to miss.

If money was no option I would give granny a p90!

In my expereince old people can be pretty set in their ways, and hard to convince why one gun is better than the other. If you can get em to shoot something, and aim it decent, I consider that a win.

Your HD set up sounds solid. I keep my RDS on, I just check it weekly and replace yearly.

You are right about using the light though. I practice that too. I also have backup Tritinum irons if the dot is out.

 

[bbbass]

I don't think I asserted a .22 is best, or even better than a .410. Just that a 10/22 might be an option to consider for an elderly person than the "Axe"

Yup, that's what you wrote... my wife is 77, gotta make diff choices now, but some of them old Grannies is mean!!!

 

[Velzey]

I'm sure velocity out of a shorter barrel is a little less.. but still plenty to kill.
Federal 2 1/2″ Oz slug 1780 ft/s 1043 velocity

Hornedy 10 mm Auto 180-gr. XTP load, it produces 556 ft/s at the muzzle and 1180 velocity


That's all I got Merry Christmas

 

[Kruel J]

I'm sure velocity out of a shorter barrel is a little less.. but still plenty to kill.
Federal 2 1/2″ Oz slug 1780 ft/s 1043 velocity

Hornedy 10 mm Auto 180-gr. XTP load, it produces 556 ft/s at the muzzle and 1180 velocity


That's all I got Merry Christmas

Boom. Nothing left to argue here.

 

[CountryGent]

I'm sure velocity out of a shorter barrel is a little less.. but still plenty to kill.
Federal 2 1/2″ Oz slug 1780 ft/s 1043 velocity

Hornedy 10 mm Auto 180-gr. XTP load, it produces 556 ft/s at the muzzle and 1180 velocity


That's all I got Merry Christmas

 

[Andy54Hawken]

Why though? Show me the person whose only viable option is a stockless. 410?

Like what? Unless they have some mental or legal reason. I can't imagine the physical condition that would make this POS the right choice.....

I could give you a "Why" if I liked or felt that the gun in question was the right choice for me , for self defense...
It is not up to me to find the "Why" for someone else.....

My whole position on self defense guns :
Use what you like and get good with it...
Use what works for you and the situation that you are in...

What someone else uses for self defense may or may not be my choice...but that don't matter 'cause I ain't gotta use it...they do...And if it works for them... Then that is all that matters....Not whether I like it or not.
Andy

 

[Geardo]

I'm sure velocity out of a shorter barrel is a little less.. but still plenty to kill.
Federal 2 1/2″ Oz slug 1780 ft/s 1043 velocity

Hornedy 10 mm Auto 180-gr. XTP load, it produces 556 ft/s at the muzzle and 1180 velocity


That's all I got Merry Christmas

I must be missing something. ft/lbs looks about = to me. I like 10mm but its not the hammer of thor. Good thing to compare it to though in terms of energy.

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