Help with a gun control debate on a non gun forum

[Diamondback]

Either the CDC has some funny folk working with em, or the FBI does.

As we used to say at RedState before the new management schmucks started turning it into MauveState, "Embrace the healing power of 'AND'"...

 

[ZigZagZeke]

Thanks for all the inputs everyone, I like to read and educate myself on all points of view, but when it gets to going back and forth, my memory fails me and I can't remember all the arguments. There is a counter to every point though!



For sure, I now know the error of my ways Main reason I was asking on the bmw forum was because bmw made a security model (armored) for the x5 with integrated door lock boxes, and I wanted to see if I could get the part numbers or if anyone had one to share their experience with it. Looks like this, and very subtle and awesome.

View attachment 398231
View attachment 398232




Most bmw owners are douchebags lol, but there are the very few of us who actually love the cars for the way they drive and are engineered, not the status symbol of the DB that it entails. I prefer the older cars myself.

Actually, it looks like the majority of folks there appreciate the question and are interested in the answer. I would have expected 99% anti-guns. As an answer to the anti-gun folks, look up the gun homicide numbers for all those "civilized" countries to the south of our border, all the way to Argentina and everywhere in between and you'll see that the convenient adjective "developed" has been used to exclude all those countries from the statistics. We are actually something like the 3rd or 4th best in the western hemisphere for gun homicide statistics, behind only Canada, Chile, and maybe one country in the Bahamas I think. Couldn't be that the reason our numbers are as high as they are is because our street crime is dominated by the drug gangs from Mexico, and Central and South America where the murder rates involving guns is several times ours, could it? Maybe Canada does as well as it does because we act as a buffer between Canada and all of those "undeveloped" countries in the western hemisphere, and Europe doesn't have a clue because it has no land connection to them, like we do. They can't put on a backpack and hike into England with 50 pounds of heroin.

 

[ZA_Survivalist]

Kill them with kindness and logic.

When they bring up statistics (if foreign)
Note not only their incredibly small nation but touch on the fact that their nation is nowhere near diverse in terms of population as we are (The US).

Not to mention many in the US truly live way way way out in the woods.
Make note that meth heads and other tresspassers are an every day issue and not everyone has the privilege or luxury of living in a city.

Make note that not everyone is from the city. The fact they see no need for something doesnt jusify their opinion. Mention that firearms are much like tools. Not one single tool does every single job well. Mention that as a person gets older some calibers and firearms are a bit much.. There is no one size fits all firearm.

But ultimately, let them embarrass themselves with their short sighted views and crass opinions.

 

[etrain16]

But according to the FBI there's roughly 11k-12k homicides a year and only approx. half are done with guns.

Another thing to point out is that homicide isn't strictly murder. If you kill in self defense its still homicide, but it isn't murder.

Either the CDC has some funny folk working with em, or the FBI does.

Keeping to the point though - the overall numbers, in comparison to other types of deaths, are relatively low. The reason I even bring it up with folks is that they scream and yell and demand more and more gun control so we can save lives - yet for the some 12,000 people killed by guns every year, they ignore the 40,000 killed in automobile accidents, the 500,000 who die from tobacco (both first and second hand), the 146,000 who are killed in various accidents each year, the 57,000 who die from the flu and pneumonia, and the 633,000 who die of heart disease each year. They focus on gun deaths with 100% of their self-righteous indignation over loss of life and completely turn a blind eye to the rest. I simply like to point out their hypocrisy. If it does nothing more than get at least some folks to recognize that, then I'm happy to point it out.

 

[Diamondback]

How 'bout that Medical Error is the #3-highest cause of death? Stupid stuff like complications from leaving a sponge in the abdominal cavity when they stitch you up, misplacing a decimal point when writing dosage...

Guns don't kill people, DOCTORS kill people! (With apologies to @bolus )

 

[Caveman Jim]

I believe they are designed for an MP5k, as this photo shows (different bmw, but same design weapon box), the two slots are wide enough for mags. As big as it is, you can find a way to attach two handguns in there easily. I just love that its a factory designed piece, and you would just buy the entire interior door panel and replace.

View attachment 398284

BMW also makes an MP5 mount for the back seat center console:
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And on certain 7-Series, they have the weapon box attached to the headliner above:
View attachment 398286
And BMW seems to love H&K, and why not cooperate, BMW & HK are probably neighbors over there in Germany

View attachment 398283

That's it I'm going to sell the Ford and the boat and I'm going to buy a beamer and an MP5 to fit the rear console!!!
Don't tempt me....

 

[dangerranger60]

I believe they are designed for an MP5k, as this photo shows (different bmw, but same design weapon box), the two slots are wide enough for mags. As big as it is, you can find a way to attach two handguns in there easily. I just love that its a factory designed piece, and you would just buy the entire interior door panel and replace.

View attachment 398284

BMW also makes an MP5 mount for the back seat center console:
View attachment 398285

And on certain 7-Series, they have the weapon box attached to the headliner above:
View attachment 398286
And BMW seems to love H&K, and why not cooperate, BMW & HK are probably neighbors over there in Germany

View attachment 398283

I like it! If they ever start designing them for full sized pickups, Count me in!

 

[sigboi]

I know right! An MP5 in each door, plus backup in the center console. Who needs door pockets

 

[Diamondback]

Screw MP5's, make mine Mk 18's. 5.56 NATO has a better punch than 9mm Parabellum.

 

[dangerranger60]

I know right! An MP5 in each door, plus backup in the center console. Who needs door pockets

I just like how clean and compact they are! Id be happy with a 1911 or even a Glock on each door. Let us know if you get them! DR

 

[Caveman Jim]

It sounds like Andrewwynn is giving a good go of it but the uninformed MSM urchins are not going to believe facts if they hit em between the eyes with a Greyhound bus...

We can only talk to those who "wake up".

 

[Diamondback]

It sounds like Andrewwynn is giving a good go of it but the uninformed MSM urchins are not going to believe facts if they hit em between the eyes with a Greyhound bus...

We can only talk to those who "wake up".

Don't waste time or effort arguing with Bluepillers; all you can do is get your message PAST them to the undecided, and sell it by presenting yourself and other Redpillers as the reasonable, restrained one while gaslighting the Bluepillers into showing themselves to be the unhinged, mentally deranged dangers to selves and others we know them to be behind the masks.

 

[MilitantBEEMER]

I have learned that when it comes to the gun debate it is like "casting pearls before swine" waste of time 99.99999% of the time. Haters are gonna hate

 

[Boboclown]

The issue here is that ammo itself is far too cheap and easy to obtain. Regulating that would likely be far more effective than trying to regulate the weapons.

And the guy in that BMW thread that said this is an idiot that doesn't understand the concept of people having less money.

 

[Caveman Jim]

And the guy in that BMW thread that said this is an idiot that doesn't understand the concept of people having less money.

Talk about them wanting common sense legislation when they themselves have idea what common sense IS...

 

[AK0perator47]

They need to have a governor installed restricting the speed to 20MPH - no one needs a car that goes above 20MPH.

Why 20MPH you ask? Well I have no data suggesting that's the ideal speed, but I think it's good, and that's all that matters. BTW, probably should limit the car to a 2 gallon tank - high capacity tanks mean people can drive further and do more harm. No one needs 10 gallons. Oh, and we should probably eliminate any device, switch or component that can be used to increase the rate of speed or the tank capacity - let's make the sale, purchase or possession of such items a felony, punishable by life in prison, retroactive to the model T. You know what, let's just get rid of any car capable of high rates of speed (over 10MPH) and are capable of having high capacity fuel tanks. Let's just make everyone drive a model T! That's what the Founder of Ford intended anyway. No one needs fuel injection. No one needs turbo. No one needs racing suspension or tires. No one needs different gear ratios. No one needs a car that's shiny blue. No one needs a car with a stereo or GPS or heated seats or a trunk to store things. No one needs any of that - so say I

HERE! HERE!!! Oh don't forget the fact that a model T can carry more than one person so we can't even accept it as a viable option. Isn't the loss of even one life to much for us to endure. It's just a gateway vehicle to the perversions of humanity. It is a gateway to drinking and driving. It's just a gateway to unsafe acts. Not to mention that the model T is a black vehicle. Everyone knows that black vehicles are evil.

 

[nehalemguy]

Screw MP5's, make mine Mk 18's. 5.56 NATO has a better punch than 9mm Parabellum.

Clearly you have no fashion sense. German cars should only be paired with German weapons.

E

 

[PaulB47]

Human opinion is not very changeable through debate or logic - even assuming the discussion stays civil, which it usually does not. This is particularly true when the subject is in some area that most debate participants are ignorant of, as then their opinions just default to their worldview, where logic does not enter.

I (mostly) no longer try to make utilitarian arguments or rights-based arguments (I don't believe in rights). I just say I carry for my own purposes and I would not tolerate any attempt to disarm me, and leave it at that. It's better to catch people who worry about crime or some similar condition, that leaves them open to new solutions they hadn't previously considered. Taking newbies to the range is probably far more fruitful than most other approaches.

 

[RicInOR]

Do you really think Bubba in camo gear hiding in the forest is going to take on the U.S. military?

The U.S. military has nuclear weapons!"

Who exactly do you think has stymied the U.S. in Afghanistan for 16 years? The Taliban is made up of Afghan Bubbas. The Taliban doesn't need to defeat nuclear weapons, though they are humiliating a nuclear power for the second time in history. They use a mix of Kalashnikovs and WWII-era bolt-action rifles. Determined insurgencies are really difficult to fight, even if they are only armed with Enfield rifles and you can target them with a TOW missiles system that can spot a cat in the dark from two miles away. In Iraq, expensive tanks were destroyed with simple improvised explosives.

Second Amendment & Armed Citizenry vs. Government Force: Historical Precedents

 

[Diamondback]

Clearly you have no fashion sense. German cars should only be paired with German weapons.

E

Don't care about fashion, only function--if I were in a "style points" frame of mind it'd be Chicago Piano time.