Help picking second SHTF firearm. 1st post!!!

[Boats]

I would say the likelihood of needing to fabricate your own pistol from bare housing isn't a concern to me- especially since I have neither the tools nor the training to do so anyway. That's why I bought a reliable pistol in the first place- like a Springfield. I keep the stock recoil spring and guide around but that's even unlikely to ever be needed. To call the XD a "range gun" is pretty absurd to me- to me a true SHTF gun is one that is accurate and goes bang every time you pull the trigger with whatever ammo you feed it. The XDm does this, plus it holds an awful lot of bullets, which I like. To each their own I guess...

If you haven't ever broken a small part, snapped a spring, or had a pin walk out of a pistol, you haven't been running a pistol hard.

They are machines, and there's a reason spare parts are made for them. How can a gun go bang every time your pull the trigger if its trigger return spring snaps? If the firing pin breaks? These things happen. These things also illustrate why the XD is a range gun. If something goes wrong with it, Springfield doesn't want you tearing down your own gun, they want you to send it to them. How's that gonna work in a SHTF?

 

[B1911]

Fun thread. After you get your pistol (I vote Glock for that) consider a lever action 30-30. Marlin or Winchester 94. Light, easy to carry, simple, and you can hunt deer or defend yourself. My $.02.

 

[saabracer23]

Fun thread. After you get your pistol (I vote Glock for that) consider a lever action 30-30. Marlin or Winchester 94. Light, easy to carry, simple, and you can hunt deer or defend yourself. My $.02.

Cool, thanks. I think I'm going to be looking for a m&p pro 9. I really like the gun overall. Then I was thinking a short shotgun, for bad guys and bad bears. Then a reaching out rifle.

P.S. if I wanted to post a WTB thread in the for sale forum how many posts do I need?

Dan

 

[erudne]

Even a light weight 10-22 gets in the way when your actually working, I know I've used several types of slings trying to carry a carbine. A handgun is not the best answer but it maybe the only available answer

 

[HansC]

Ergonomics is important. I have a weird looking Savage lever action that I don't like to look at, but shoulders very naturally and puts the first shot EXACTLY where I want without effort. Wish I could point a battle rifle that well. Some pistol is going to fit your hand MUCH BETTER than others. That is the one to find and get, might take a lot of shooting with friends with different guns. Tiny groups without much effort inspires enormous confidence, even if the mag is puny or the gun is not popular or tactical.

 

[armedredneck]

That's great for you, everyone has an opinion. That one was mine. It was a concept I was taught over and over in training and served me well. Not discounting the practicality of a handgun, however, I'll take the rifle over that any day of the week. And no, I disagree. A .45 is NOT more valuable than a real rifle. Sure, if I wanted to engage everything at 25 to 50 yards....

A few words:



Thanks for paraphrasing one of Clint Smith's most historically faulty and blowhard statements ever because I get to tee off upon it.

In any SHTF scenario in the lower 48 short of TEOTWAWKI, a service worthy sidearm in 9mm, .40 S&W, or .45ACP is going to be far more valuable than a "real rifle."

And you don't have to take my word for it, take FERFAL's, a guy who's lived in an extended SHTF situation rather than theorized about it on Thunder Ranch. SURVIVING IN ARGENTINA

Poke around there. He doesn't dismiss having a long gun but the fact of the matter is that even though the Army itself has twice tried to rid itself of the handgun, first with the M1 Carbine, and then with a PDW concept, the first of which was the M3 "Grease Gun," they haven't been able to do it because handguns make too much sense in too many situations. That's what FERFAL recognizes that Mr. Smith's dismissive aphorism doesn't.

The fact of the matter is that shy of the end of the world, there will be some sort of social order and some functioning concept of "law and order" even if it is frontier justice. If you ever have to actually interact with such a society on anything better than an antagonistic level, discrete self defense is going to be more desirable a stance to take than is "Hi, I am armed to the teeth, let me in."

A handgun is 24/7/365 insurance. Try to do anything else meaningful with a slung rifle and then decide whether you still feel well armed without a sidearm. Go do some hours of gardening with a slung rifle. Fill a few score sandbags. Go take a dump with one. Open carry one around a town and see what happens. Heck, sleep with one, and you'll find out why the Army has bought handguns in their millions despite studying how to rid themselves of them.

The truth becomes apparent. Except for immediate action, patrol, guard duty, etcetera where a long arm is already expected to be at the ready, the handgun is far better for nearly every situation you can think of, from needing both hands, to the need for concealed armament, to taking a shower, to deploying in tight spaces, than is a rifle or shotgun. The pistol is historically proven to be more capable than merely being a stop gap for fighting your way back to a rifle.

Yes, the killing power of handguns suck. But they kill better than a rifle slung over your back you are trying to frantically get into action, or stacked a few yards away, or put in the trunk or a gear bag.

And a mention about SHTF handguns:

My stance is buy what you like, but I would never rely upon one like the XD, which have factory restricted spare parts availability.

I despise Glocks, but like the 1911, it has every spare under the sun available for it, and a trained chimp could detail strip one. Even S&W took note. The M&P has readily available spares for the asking too, down to the smallest pins and springs.

A serious SHTF sidearm is the one you have spare parts for before you desperately need them.

 

[Boats]

So, you're saying that were you the OP, you'd rather have two rifles than one rifle, granted in .22lr, and a concealable service caliber handgun? I guess if one is going to spend the rest of their days in a lean-to outside of whatever passes for civilization, that's a plan of sorts.

I understand that a lot of infantry trained soldiers are practically wedded to the black rifle by training and experience, but the utility of rifle fetishism falls short in a world that is not in a total or near total state of anarchy.

 

[armedredneck]

Right. That's pretty much what I was saying. The OP's scenario was that he would be living off the land outside of civilization in a SHTF scenario. So in that particular scenario that's what I personally would choose. As we all know, there's no one-size-fits-all approach to anything, especially SHTF. So armchair generalizations are practically useless. There's alot of experience on this board. Everyone has had similar and different experiences. (And some, none). My experience is that if I'm relying on what I have on hand, I'll take the rifle. The scenario painted (SHTF, living in the woods on the move) would assume to be one where we are in total anarchy. If we're not, then why live in the woods?

Not at all discounting your point about a handgun however. I completely see and agree with most of the logic behind that. That's why I said make sure you have a sidearm as well. With the three items I originally posted an individual would be prepared for almost any situation requiring a firearm. And that's actually my plan. A .223 or other semi-auto mag fed rifle, a shortened and suppressed .22 for taking game, and a sidearm for backup or those times when being seen with a rifle might not be the best thing. Yeah sure, you could probably get by with a sidearm and a .22, but why sell yourself short if you don't have to? Without a doubt I would not want to be running around in a world gone to heck with just a .22 and a sidearm. At least throw a shotgun in there if nothing else. And yes, I would pack two. That's why the .22 is short with a folder.

So, you're saying that were you the OP, you'd rather have two rifles than one rifle, granted in .22lr, and a concealable service caliber handgun? I guess if one is going to spend the rest of their days in a lean-to outside of whatever passes for civilization, that's a plan of sorts.

I understand that a lot of infantry trained soldiers are practically wedded to the black rifle by training and experience, but the utility of rifle fetishism falls short in a world that is not in a total or near total state of anarchy.

 

[armedredneck]

Exactly. I've Read Ferfal's account some time ago. Very good information. I love how one can quote (even if it is an older cliche, but true nonetheless) and it's immediately dismissed and torn apart by the "experts". Pin your hopes to a 9mm in a world gone to heck and see how far you get. I also am talking from a position where there is no rule of law of any type. Because that's what I think will hit here. I think what's coming here will make any other SHTF scenarios worldwide look small in comparison.

Ferfal did talk considerably about having a sidearm in the urban environment, noteing concealability and the ease of having it on you at all times. But long arms also have their place as he also discussed so don't think just having Ferfal's High Power with you is the solitary answer to the problem . . . . especially if you are in a rural area.

 

[Boats]

Exactly. I've Read Ferfal's account some time ago. Very good information. I love how one can quote (even if it is an older cliche, but true nonetheless) and it's immediately dismissed and torn apart by the "experts". Pin your hopes to a 9mm in a world gone to heck and see how far you get. I also am talking from a position where there is no rule of law of any type. Because that's what I think will hit here. I think what's coming here will make any other SHTF scenarios worldwide look small in comparison.

I ripped that Clint Smith quote because it is both inane and inaccurate. Even the rifle fans in this thread are not so dismissive of a handgun as "only" good for fighting back to a long arm that should have never been left in the first place. It's pretty damn clear that handguns fill self defense roles that rifles can't and vice versa.

 

[biker bo]

I think counting on only two firearms to see you through a SHTF event is a bit risky to say the least. If you are going to camo paint your tinfoil hat and head for the woods never to be seen again then it might work.

The way I see it you will need hunting fireams and self defence firearms. The trick here is to find guns that can fill both rolls. If you can pick up a 308 battle rifle that will cover hunting and any nasty two legged problems that you might encounter.

As for handguns IMO you cant go wrong with a 1911. If the SHTF I will be packing a P-13 and a STI Escort at all times when in town.

While in the field hunting small game with a 22 rifle I will carry the 45s . If Im hunting big game with one of my FALs I will be packing one of my Ruger mark II 22 for any small game I come upon.

I have picked up two or more of the same guns in each of the calibers I have chosen. If one fails I still a spare to keep me going. A broken firearm can be used as parts to keep other going.

Just my .02 worth.

 

[armedredneck]

I agree. Handguns have a role. That's why I included one in my recommended loadout......

I just wouldn't want to be stuck with just a handgun and .22 as my plan of action in that kind of situation. Although, if that's all I had, it would make due until I could liberate a "real rifle" somewhere.

Say what you want about the quote. I understand where it came from, but again, I was trained by several with that mentality and it served me well.

And again, these are MY opinions. Everyone's entitled to their own. It's just cooler if people didn't start theirs off with...."I'm glad you put up that quote that I disagree with as it gives me an opportunity to show why my opinion is superior to yours or all others...."

I ripped that Clint Smith quote because it is both inane and inaccurate. Even the rifle fans in this thread are not so dismissive of a handgun as "only" good for fighting back to a long arm that should have never been left in the first place. It's pretty damn clear that handguns fill self defense roles that rifles can't and vice versa.

 

[ZA_Survivalist]

Don't know how those 22lr conversion kits for the AR hold up but ever thought of getting your 5.56 AR with the drop in 22 lr kit then for a side arm an ak pistol?
Now for me, my set up is a bit different. The ak platform is my platform of choice. However depending in the shtf scenario I could be swayed to also carry an AR platform as well. I do firmly believe your side arm is just that your side arm. Your gun to get a gun so to speak. I think your bug out weapon choices/preferences can definitely change depending on the type of shtf scenario.
For example, I'm rather well trained and familiar with the ak platform, but if our own government or other nato forces should declare marshal-law (as much as it pains me to say this) id be more inclined to pack and carry an M4/AR15 platform chambered for 5.56 strictly for the availability of parts, ammo and magazines. Where as in nearly all other Shtf scenarios my go to main battle rifle would in fact be an ak 7.62x39 platform. Mainly because the 7.62 x39 ammo and magazines are quite a but more common and available than the 5.45 and 5.56 variants. But then again for my shtf plans I wont literally be hauling all my weapon platforms with me, I'll venture out with the platforms set up for that days requirements i.e. hunting , or defense, scavenging or stalking and hunting fellow preppers. juuust kidding guys..kind of.

 

[bikejunkie]

Just buy one of everything- it's the only way to be sure...It's clear you need to become a member of the Gun A Month club!

 

[jjackffrost]

my three are 12 gauge pump min 1000 rounds, 22lr 5000 rounds,and SKS 762x39 2400 rounds is what I keep. I like the SKS have 3 but the one I shoot the most I have put over 12000 rounds through it with no problems but it is russian
Be sure what ever you get to get replacment parts for your guns and the tools to fix them

 

[Fringe]

My 2 cents: 12gauge shotgun (Mossberg 500 or Remington 870) AND a sidearm (9mm Glock 19 or .357 Ruger GP100)

10/22s are great guns!

 

[DEADTIME]

Your overlooking a shotgun which is versatile, effective and affordable. A 12 gauge pump can be used for hunting, and protection and can be had for as little as 300 bucks. If I could have only 1 weapon it would be a shotgun.

 

[GARYDONN]

My Primary is a 1911 .45, carry it everywhere. An FEG SMC .22lr is cheap (about $225) and not ammo picky, also light. I have a pair of 870s, but remember, they're heavy! Revelation Arms dose a.22 suppressor for about $200 + tax, he's in Aloha. I don't buy Remington bulk .22 ammo, had too many missfires, stick with Federal. I also have a BHP 9mm, low tek, low recoil, and accurate. if you go with 9mm, look for flat nose fmj, round nose tends to slide off bone. Back in the 70's flat nose was common in surplus, not now. So,check Ammo.net, I know they have some. I know you're thinking that you'll be using hp ammo, but, at $25 a box, you'll end up with more fmj than the other.

 

[tattoo]

My take on this is too, and I do, own a good 22lr hand gun and scoped rifle. Think of how many rounds you can take with you. Shot placement is the key. Practice, practice, practice.
Dave

 

[knuckle Head]

A 22lr handgun has been high on my priority list for sometime, I just have not found the right one at the right price.

I normally carry .40 cal or 9mm, sometimes the baby cannon (Charter Arms Bulldog .44 spcl. scares the heck out of people when it comes and they looking at those cylinders of silvertip hollow points, had to pull it twice each, I though people were die of heart attacks) I have a32 auto but ammo is expensive for the size, can't wait to get a .22lr pistol