Help on when to draw your weapon

[1371JarHead]

I don't think there is a correct answer for exactly WHEN to draw, more like SHOULD, and that's also open to each individual and that persons circumstances!

Beyond all that, I will say, Don't just put your hand on your gun or hip, or give any indication that your about to draw, or are even considering it, once you have made the decision that a draw is nessessory, then a lightning fast draw and presentation is whats called for! Don't ever broadcast you intention to draw, especially in close with an assailant, you run the risk of escalation by broadcasting your intent and the tango can get the drop on you!

HHMMM that is very good point, I guess I have always felt I would rather give the person a chance to back away, but I just dont think that really happens the 2 LEO`S I talked to said just the opposite, for some reason when a person is raging or really worked up for whatever reason, they almost try to get you to shoot them once they find out that you are carrying, and telling them that you are carrying concealed almost makes the situation worse.

 

[1371JarHead]

There's such a thing as "disparity of force" in most state's SD laws. A big young guy against an old, little guy (not saying you're old and weak @1371JarHead, just a generic example), or several "unarmed" assailants against one armed person can be a case for legitimate self defense.
The law is concrete, but proving wrongdoing when words like "reasonable" and "intent" are written-in leaves a lot of gray area to be exploited by a prosecutor.
1) always have a round chambered.
2) Rethink your holster choice
3)Look into LTL (less than lethal) means of self defense. It's freaking stupid, but in OR I can conceal a handgun, but an expandable baton will get me arrested and charged.
4) If you think (I intentionally didn't use the word "feel") that you are in danger of death or grievous bodily harm, then drawing your weapon is a legitimate escalation. Just be prepared to back it up in court if you have to.
5) Don't pull unless you are willing to fire. Hopefully you won't have to, oftentimes (more often than can be recorded), that escalation de-escalates a situation without a shot. At that point it's the best you can hope for. Just don't use that hogleg as a prop... I'm sure you know that, but it's worth saying for the benefit of future lurkers.
6) Always make a police report. If worse comes to worst and homeboy moves this "thing" to the next level the paper trail will establish a pattern of aggression on his part. That goes for any vandalism or harassment too, even if it can't necessarily be attributed to young MMA-dude
7) Enjoy your retirement, Marine. Sounds like you deserve it.

Semper Fi
JY, 0351 3/7 MCAGCC 29 Palms

HAHAHAAH 29 stumps lololol, SEMPER FI Brother, I myself was station at K-Bay as well as a few floats to Subic, ahh the girls, anyway, Yes I am now going with a round chambered and im going to look at new holster set up on Sat, the police who came to my apt had also said that in the future i should look at non lethal, but they did say that in many cases that just makes the attacker more aggressive, and unless you are really well trained with whatever you are using it could be a very bad outcome.

 

[EPS]

HHMMM that is very good point, I guess I have always felt I would rather give the person a chance to back away, but I just dont think that really happens the 2 LEO`S I talked to said just the opposite, for some reason when a person is raging or really worked up for whatever reason, they almost try to get you to shoot them once they find out that you are carrying, and telling them that you are carrying concealed almost makes the situation worse.

No warning shots lol or warning that you have a gun .if it comes to the point where you have to draw the gun .
It's probably to late for them to change there mind.

 

[1371JarHead]

Not so sure about that, Andy.
Although good advice, that reads like "Duty To Retreat" verbiage.
Aren't WA and OR "Castle Doctrine" states?
I realize Castle Doctrine is different from Stand Your Ground, but are they that different?

Hmmmm... this seems like something I should dig into...

Yes the police officer told me that, I was within my right to draw and even fire as I felt my life was in danger, and because that i had back up and tried to escape 3 times, there was more then enough cause for me drawing my pistol. they said it would come down to what the DA office thinks in terms of a justified shooting, because there is no set real on who or what feels that there life is in jeopardy.

 

[1371JarHead]

For me, why carry an unloaded gun might as well be carrying a brick things happen way to fast when it goes sideways you need to have your focus on other things than loading a round in its already stressful why add more.

hahahah thats what the LEO`S said a unchambered gun is just a paper weight, lololol.

 

[1371JarHead]

The above could have been a major problem if it had come to the point of you needing to pull your weapon. Thankfully that didn't happen.
I am assuming this may have been because of your concern of an accidental discharge with that striker fired FN....

If you can't get over that apprehension, you may want to look into changing to a chambered and decocked single action/ double action automatic or even a revolver, which would relieve you of the eternal time lag involved in chambering a round in a danger close scenario.

Thanks for that, yes I was thinking of just that, the reason I choose the FNS9C was it fits my hand really well, its light and fits just right on my hip when Im out on my mountain bike, and yes that is one of the reasons, I think it is a age thing perhaps, any reccomendations of a wheel gun would be great, thanks again.

 

[1371JarHead]

I think you got a good lesson in why it's important to carry with a round in the chamber. When you need your gun, you might need it right freaking NOW.

Do you have any issues with carrying with a round chambered? I'm not familiar with your FN. But if you're not comfortable with the FN for some reason, there are plenty of other options out there if your gun doesn't have a safety and you want one...or a SA/DA choice that has a much heavier first pull.

The one thing I would also suggest is that the next time something like this happens, don't wait for an hour to go by before you call the police. It is in your best interest to be the FIRST person to call. Right or wrong, the first person who calls is often viewed as the innocent one. If the idiot had called first and reported you, you might have had a harder time with things.

Did you ever find out who the guy was? Is he a fellow resident so you may be encountering him again at some point? Because you may want to consider carrying some pepper spray as well. Nobody wins if you have to shoot someone. And even if you're 100% in the right, your life will be forever changed and not for the better. It's nice to have an option in between "nothing" and "deadly force." Pepper spray usually works pretty good on dogs too.

Glad everything worked out ok.

Yes Im going to post a follow up at the end of this thread, cheers

 

[EPS]

hahahah thats what the LEO`S said a unchambered gun is just a paper weight, lololol.

Unless you have one of those NEW FANGALED
revolver type guns .
You need two hands to chamber a round .
So now you got both hands on your gun .and he is punching you in the face.

 

[1371JarHead]

So I would like to thank everyone for all the reply's, it has been very helpful. So some more info, the person in question turns out has been living in the apt building with his ex boyfriend he was not on the lease nor was his dog registered in the building, he was told that he had to be out of the building by Sept 30th and his ex had to move out by the 15th of Oct. Last night i guess they got into a huge fight and the police was called and he was arrested for GBH and Assault with a edged weapon, so there is that. I filled today a non contact/ non stalking order with king county court house( 103 $$). Now for some big news I was told when the police had talked with him on wed, that he had in fact had a 3 1/2 inch blade in a clip on sheath in the small of his back , he said he always carried it because he was gay and was afraid of being harassed. So all of you are right, I would have had no time to pull my pistol/chamber a round and get a good sight picture before this loon had turned me into a pin cushion, lesson learned. Also this guy has 4 priors all for assault in one form or another. So thanks again for all your help, to bad the rest of America cant see that we legal gun owners are just regular people and not a bunch of nut jobs, .....and im spending all day at the range tomorrow, lots and lots of shooting at under 7 yards. thanks again Robert

 

[1371JarHead]

And now you're in Seattle .
Still have Hadjies all around .
And dope heads dope dealers.
Homeless drug addicts that will rob you for 5 bucks.sleep on your doorstep and assult you when you tell them to leave.a city government that will call you the criminal .when you defend yourself.
Lol you where probably better off in IRAQ

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA no bubblegum huh, I just dont know what the F has happened to my once great city.

 

[EPS]

So I would like to thank everyone for all the reply's, it has been very helpful. So some more info, the person in question turns out has been living in the apt building with his ex boyfriend he was not on the lease nor was his dog registered in the building, he was told that he had to be out of the building by Sept 30th and his ex had to move out by the 15th of Oct. Last night i guess they got into a huge fight and the police was called and he was arrested for GBH and Assault with a edged weapon, so there is that. I filled today a non contact/ non stalking order with king county court house( 103 $$). Now for some big news I was told when the police had talked with him on wed, that he had in fact had a 3 1/2 inch blade in a clip on sheath in the small of his back , he said he always carried it because he was gay and was afraid of being harassed. So all of you are right, I would have had no time to pull my pistol/chamber a round and get a good sight picture before this loon had turned me into a pin cushion, lesson learned. Also this guy has 4 priors all for assault in one form or another. So thanks again for all your help, to bad the rest of America cant see that we legal gun owners are just regular people and not a bunch of nut jobs, .....and im spending all day at the range tomorrow, lots and lots of shooting at under 7 yards. thanks again Robert

Thanks for the update I will be going to the range tomorrow also . little bit of muzzleloader Shooting and a lot of pistol Shooting.

 

[EPS]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA no bubblegum huh, I just dont know what the F has happened to my once great city.

Dude it's a mess I used to like to go to Seattle years ago but now I avoid it .as much as I can.
I live north of Seattle have to drive 108 miles to get to work .in Sumner.but it's worth every mile.
Sad thing is this progressive B.S.is slowly making it's way North.
I bought 1000 Rounds of 9mm a few weeks ago .I gave 200 to my aunt I shot 200 .
So I have 600 left I will be BURNING powder tomarow at the range by my house

 

[Ura-Ki]

Good that you have learned these lessons with out any one getting hurt, that's a win! I bet your glad the dude and his dog are outta there, but be careful, he might get a case of the get evens on you before he is outta there, so be extra alert for trouble with him!

 

[1371JarHead]

Good that you have learned these lessons with out any one getting hurt, that's a win! I bet your glad the dude and his dog are outta there, but be careful, he might get a case of the get evens on you before he is outta there, so be extra alert for trouble with him!

As of right now, he is still in jail awaiting to see if he can bond out, however he is barred from being on the property at anytime, but that is only good if he wants to follow the law.

 

[11Charlie]

So I would like to thank everyone for all the reply's, it has been very helpful. So some more info, the person in question turns out has been living in the apt building with his ex boyfriend he was not on the lease nor was his dog registered in the building, he was told that he had to be out of the building by Sept 30th and his ex had to move out by the 15th of Oct. Last night i guess they got into a huge fight and the police was called and he was arrested for GBH and Assault with a edged weapon, so there is that. I filled today a non contact/ non stalking order with king county court house( 103 $$). Now for some big news I was told when the police had talked with him on wed, that he had in fact had a 3 1/2 inch blade in a clip on sheath in the small of his back , he said he always carried it because he was gay and was afraid of being harassed. So all of you are right, I would have had no time to pull my pistol/chamber a round and get a good sight picture before this loon had turned me into a pin cushion, lesson learned. Also this guy has 4 priors all for assault in one form or another. So thanks again for all your help, to bad the rest of America cant see that we legal gun owners are just regular people and not a bunch of nut jobs, .....and im spending all day at the range tomorrow, lots and lots of shooting at under 7 yards. thanks again Robert

Lessons are hard to learn sometimes. I know that when I first started carrying I learned a lot from the great people on this forum.

 

[saxon]

3)Look into LTL (less than lethal) means of self defense. It's freaking stupid, but in OR I can conceal a handgun, but an expandable baton will get me arrested and charged.

please provide ORS for this or LAW
as from what I have read and talking to OSP etc noting illegal about using one as long as you have training.

 

[DuneHopper]

The only thing I could think of is I would have been on 911 the second he ran off. A Marine CW teacher shared with me a lesson of one of his student that had something similar happen, he went home only to have 6 cops cars show up saying he was menacing with a gun.
Its stuck in my head to 911 right now could save one hassle and stress later.

I have healed my firearm a couple times, never showed it and seemed that was enough to get a person to BTFO,
but these are scary times. I see zero problems with what went down and how he had the opportunity to leave.
I would say that he did create a threat, of serious harm, anger and size and age all would have been seen as justified.

Thanks for sharing.

 

[Flymph]

I would look into a firearm or holster that doesn't catch so easily... I would also start carrying with a round chambered, especially after I became aware of a potential hostile entity in the proximity of my dwelling.
I'm pretty sure the police already affirmed that you did everything properly, implicity saying that if the guy proceeded any further you would have been in your right to have defended yourself. I also wouldn't have waited so long to call them, since cops don't care who is justified and only go by who calls first (i'm sure some care).
Time to draw is when the guy is advancing threatening you.

I'm also not a lawyer, so you may want to contact one if you ever need one in the future.

 

[Jonnyuma]

please provide ORS for this or LAW
as from what I have read and talking to OSP etc noting illegal about using one as long as you have training.

Your concealed handgun license allows for just that, a concealed handgun as defined in ORS 166.210(5). Other concealed weapons are specifically prohibited and some (such as expandable batons) have been found illegal by court precedent even though they're not named specifically in ORS 166.240(1). Just to be clear, we're discussing concealed weapons here.
I'm curious where the statute that requires "training" to carry a baton might be found.

 

[saxon]

Your concealed handgun license allows for just that, a concealed handgun as defined in ORS 166.210(5). Other concealed weapons are specifically prohibited and some (such as expandable batons) have been found illegal by court precedent even though they're not named specifically in ORS 166.240(1). Just to be clear, we're discussing concealed weapons here.
I'm curious where the statute that requires "training" to carry a baton might be found.

curious as the what case as you say has set a court precedent/ that would make the carry of an expandable baton illegal,
the only court or police reports I have found or been talked to about is that "they can be considered a deadly weapon"
if a person was or is not trained on "how" to use them.