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Help! Need advice from experienced long range shooters.

Discussion in 'General Firearm Discussion' started by YOURSUPREMECOMMANDER, Mar 22, 2014.

  1. YOURSUPREMECOMMANDER

    YOURSUPREMECOMMANDER Raleigh Hills, Or. Active Member

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  2. jluck

    jluck Really,Really, Close to Newport Oregon 97365 Voted #1 Member

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    Did your turret slip? (Small Allen heads loose). I know I have good and bad days with shooting at extended distances but a 8.5 minute adjustment is weird for a place you've shot before and a 400 yardshot shshould be a cake walk.
     
  3. YOURSUPREMECOMMANDER

    YOURSUPREMECOMMANDER Raleigh Hills, Or. Active Member

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  4. orygun

    orygun West Linn Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    My suggestion would have been to back up to 100 yards and sort it out. It certainly could have been your scope, just an internal problem, not external, but the first place I'd look would be the scope mounting system. Just a thought.
     
  5. YOURSUPREMECOMMANDER

    YOURSUPREMECOMMANDER Raleigh Hills, Or. Active Member

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  6. Lange22250

    Lange22250 Milwaukie Active Member

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    This. I speak from experience when I say that there is nothing like banging your head against the wall trying to figure out what's going on at distance and then firing a couple of rounds on paper at 100 only to find that something in the optic or mount changed.

    Try and rule stuff like that out first.
     
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  7. YOURSUPREMECOMMANDER

    YOURSUPREMECOMMANDER Raleigh Hills, Or. Active Member

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    Thank You. Good advice.
     
  8. salmonriverjohn

    salmonriverjohn N.W Oregon coast, Gods country Well-Known Member

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    Just a thought here, was the sun shinning, and what time of the day was it? Mornings the thermals fall down, and as the sun warms things up, they rapidly lift.
    Thermal lift is very real. Shooting long distance at coyotes/sage rats/targets, (especially across swells and draws) I've noticed a lift in equal sometimes to a 10 MPH (or more) cross wind blowing straight up off certain vegetation and crops that becomes apparent. While shooting in the alkali soil over east you can see without a spotter the results of this happening. Perhaps I missed something, but when thermal lift isn't factored in it can be perplexing as heck at long range.
     
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  9. YOURSUPREMECOMMANDER

    YOURSUPREMECOMMANDER Raleigh Hills, Or. Active Member

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  10. JustShoot

    JustShoot Oregon . Hillsborito area Active Member

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    This +1 - Rule it out 1st . (if) your not off one revolution of turn on the Elev. knob .

    also This - your erector system in the Elev. might be sticking also from when you Dial-down from being dialed-up . This happens from time to time especially when having the Scope sit for long periods of time with a 20-MOA or more Base under the scope to really compress the Erector system . It wears them out prematurely & promotes sticking & (smoothly returning) to proper zero on the Elev. Dial-Down .

    This happened even on Top-$$$ glass / Not just the Cheep glass . I just had one do it last Sunday afternoon and the Elev. was stuck 2-MOA high . then after a 3 shoots it jumped to the proper 100 yrd. zero .
    I also had it happen about 3 years ago on a scope that was/always worked perfect .
    -
     
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  11. salmonriverjohn

    salmonriverjohn N.W Oregon coast, Gods country Well-Known Member

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    Yes I can hear the hits! Nice shooting, especially in the wind conditions your up against and a ten inch gong, well done.
    from the descriptions of the doping your using you seem like you pretty much have it together. Nice job. As 'just shoot' states, sticking may be an issue. And as Lang 22250 and orygun state (trust oryguns advice, he's an old sage) + he loves the -06,, got just to trust anyone that loves the -06, if everything's good at 100, you know your good to go. The rise due to thermal lift is often overlooked when distance shots are taken. It will cause hair (22250) to be pulled out at a later date after you know damn good and well you just had her doped at a certain distance but didn't factor in thermals. As a side note, that sure looks just like the terrain that I live in where your video was shot. Coast range.
    Please keep us posted as to the results you come up with, Thanks.
    God I love to shoot!
     
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  12. 2506

    2506 Seattle Well-Known Member

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    90% of the problems I encounter end up being either the rings or the mounts.
     
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  13. orygun

    orygun West Linn Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    Unless I read the original post wrong, it seemed like he had to dial more elevation to get the bullet up to strike the gong. Maybe conditions were worse last time out, but it seems like the condition SRJ describes would have caused the OP to dial in less elevation.
    All in all, interesting stuff here.
     
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  14. YOURSUPREMECOMMANDER

    YOURSUPREMECOMMANDER Raleigh Hills, Or. Active Member

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  15. YOURSUPREMECOMMANDER

    YOURSUPREMECOMMANDER Raleigh Hills, Or. Active Member

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  16. YOURSUPREMECOMMANDER

    YOURSUPREMECOMMANDER Raleigh Hills, Or. Active Member

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  17. JustShoot

    JustShoot Oregon . Hillsborito area Active Member

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    if it's not mechanical in mounts or glass . & you see it a consistent thing for having to dial up more elevation than you used to have in the past, using the exact same Load .
    (maybe or maybe Not ?) .. The same thing happens to me when my Tubes ' Just Start ' to go . They still shoot lights-out @ 100 yrd. like usual . BUT (for example) you start to notice things like having to dial an extra 0.50 MOA @ 600 ... ;)
    .
     
  18. YOURSUPREMECOMMANDER

    YOURSUPREMECOMMANDER Raleigh Hills, Or. Active Member

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  19. salmonriverjohn

    salmonriverjohn N.W Oregon coast, Gods country Well-Known Member

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    If the rifle were to be dialed in on a day with good thermal lift, given that the ridges described came to an apex from both left and right where the shots were taken at the time, the point of impact has the potential of change to a lower point if the following session was at a lower temp with far less up draft. Mornings and evenings with lower falling temps can and do produce the opposite affect. It may be a slight deviation that's almost unnoticeable at normal hunting distances, but when those distances are multiplied many times they can become quite significant.
     
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  20. AMProducts

    AMProducts Maple Valley, WA Jerk, Ammo Manufacturer Silver Supporter

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    While I do think thermals could be an issue here, typically thermals have much more to do with ground temp than ambient air temp. Back when I used to shoot smallbore competitively the big match we always made it out to was the western wildcats... smallbore at 50 and 100 yards could be a real challenge between the thermals, and wind currents out there. If you got stuck over on the far left side of the range, there was a berm and in the afternoons when the wind picked up you would be shooting through a giant vortex of dust and tumble-weeds. Really played hell on your score.

    Anyways, when the weather heats up, your MV should increase as your rounds are starting from a warmer state, granted it's usually only a few percent, but at longer ranges this can really start to matter. As you point out, as the air temp increases, air density drops. What I kinda wonder about is if you were experiencing a more severe magnus effect at the lower temp and your zeroing data was taking that into account.

    Generally, I think we're all kinda throwing darts at the board. I would blame (in order of likelyhood):

    1) Scope not sufficiently mounted (check the screws, god knows something could have come loose)
    2) Scope taking a solid bump (less likely, but still possible) and causing the elevation mechanisms to stick or jump
    3) External ballistic effects

    Personally, I try to write down all the details of shots taken at distance. The weather, the ammo lot (yes, i lot-code all of my ammo), distances, even down to how I feel (did I have too much coffee that morning?). I'll be honest, I don't really start to get excited any more unless the targets go beyond 700 yards as anything less tends to be boring.