Held @ Gunpoint Today While Serving Papers

[duldej]

I was serving papers today in Portland, but out in the sticks, and this dude stuck a semiautomatic pistol in my face. He was trying to get me arrested for trespassing, but let me go because I had papers for him.

He then called the police on me, and I called them on him.

After a lot of banter, and callings-back, the Sheriff's deputy that I was in contact with told me that he could have a case of trespassing against me, but that I could have a case of menacing against him. The dude and I both agreed not to pursue charges against one another. I finished my day of work.

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[ATCclears]

"Fun".

 

[Swedish K]

Wait - if he pulls a gun on you and doesn't let you leave how can you be trespassing unless he had it posted? Isn't the generally accepted concept that you must leave when asked to unless posted?
Also, you say he was trying to get you arrested for trespassing but let you go because you had papers for him - then why did he call the cops on you?

 

[duldej]

Wait - if he pulls a gun on you and doesn't let you leave how can you be trespassing unless he had it posted? Isn't the generally accepted concept that you must leave when asked to unless posted?
Also, you say he was trying to get you arrested for trespassing but let you go because you had papers for him - then why did he call the cops on you?

"No trespassing" was posted. The cop asked me that same question. I told him, like I'm telling you now that I go through those signs about 10x/day while working. There is no other way to do my job.

He called the cops on me probably to cover his a$$.

 

[Misterbill]

Fun job ain't it? I prefer doing repo work. Less opportunity for people to get stupid and violent when you're usually gone before they wake up.

 

[duldej]

Fun job ain't it? I prefer doing repo work. Less opportunity for people to get stupid and violent when you're usually gone before they wake up.

No, I like PI work better because I don't like getting up into peoples' faces. I never tried Repo work, and am fey to do that. People get uptight and irrational over "their" cars.

 

[duldej]

In regards to that Criminal Trespassing post that Salted Weapon was kind enough to post, most states permit an "affirmative defense" in terms of trespassing, momentarily, for the sake of serving legal papers, which is what I was doing.

In Washington, the affirmative defense in regards to Service of Due Process reads like so:


The actor was attempting to serve legal process which includes any document required or allowed to be served upon persons or property, by any statute, rule, ordinance, regulation, or court order, excluding delivery by the mails of the United States. This defense applies only if the actor did not enter into a private residence or other building not open to the public and the entry onto the premises was reasonable and necessary for service of the legal process.

—RCW 9A.52.090 (4)

 

[Misterbill]

No, I like PI work better because I don't like getting up into peoples' faces. I never tried Repo work, and am fey to do that. People get uptight and irrational over "their" cars.

True, and I've been shot at doing it. (this was 25 years ago when I was still invincible and stupid so...) but I only had a couple of those and they were in Compton. the rest of the time they were just screaming at the tow truck as I drove away. But skip tracing is the most boring thing in the WORLD. I HATED that part.

 

[duldej]

True, and I've been shot at doing it. (this was 25 years ago when I was still invincible and stupid so...) but I only had a couple of those and they were in Compton. the rest of the time they were just screaming at the tow truck as I drove away. But skip tracing is the most boring thing in the WORLD. I HATED that part.

I know what you mean. I'm 43, and I still am a thrill-seeker. I only really like doing the potentially dangerous serves.

 

[Father of four]

I did a ride along with a repo man 15+ years ago. I felt dirty when I rode with him. It may, be the right thing to do but I would never take that job.

My opinion on the trespassing incident. I believe serving papers to someone is probably at times needful but just ignoring a persons posted no-trespassing sign is a bit of bull crap. Do you hop gates, climb fences? Do you have any respect for any property owners or do you think you have the "blank check" on personal property and you are above all because you work for the state?

No disrespect intended, I could though on one hand be 100% on the side of a property owner shooting you for trespassing.

 

[duldej]

I did a ride along with a repo man 15+ years ago. I felt dirty when I rode with him. It may, be the right thing to do but I would never take that job.

My opinion on the trespassing incident. I believe serving papers to someone is probably at times needful but just ignoring a persons posted no-trespassing sign is a bit of bull crap. Do you hop gates, climb fences? Do you have any respect for any property owners or do you think you have the "blank check" on personal property and you are above all because you work for the state?

No disrespect intended, I could though on one hand be 100% on the side of a property owner shooting you for trespassing.

I think the problem you are expressing is that basically anybody can serve papers here in Oregon, whereas in many states you need to qualify to be a Process Server, and on that point I agree with you. I would not want some jerk stomping around on my property, either. That is part of the reason I posted this thread. Both sides were right.

 

[Father of four]

I could imagine a property owner drawing his firearm on you, not knowing you or your intent but that there is a stranger who is on his land and the property owner knows that you had to go right past his no trespassing sign to get to where you are now. "Put your hand up! Don't move!", but you reach to get the papers in your back pocket. The property owner thinks you are reaching for a gun. "Baaammm, baaaammmm, baaaammm....."

Or "Pew, pew, Pepé Le Pew..." if you carry a Glock.

 

[Father of four]

I think the problem you are expressing is that basically anybody can serve papers here in Oregon, whereas in many states you need to qualify to be a Process Server, and on that point I agree with you. I would not want some jerk stomping around on my property, either. That is part of the reason I posted this thread. Both sides were right.

Thanks for the discussion.

 

[billdeserthills]

I actually have really enjoyed the challenge that eluding the process server brings. I don't let the trespass part bother me cause I never answer the door anyhow. That just leaves the 30 seconds the garage door is going up or down, usually. Process servers out here charge for three trys and I love running up the bill

 

[Misterbill]

I did a ride along with a repo man 15+ years ago. I felt dirty when I rode with him. It may, be the right thing to do but I would never take that job.

My opinion on the trespassing incident. I believe serving papers to someone is probably at times needful but just ignoring a persons posted no-trespassing sign is a bit of bull crap. Do you hop gates, climb fences? Do you have any respect for any property owners or do you think you have the "blank check" on personal property and you are above all because you work for the state?

No disrespect intended, I could though on one hand be 100% on the side of a property owner shooting you for trespassing.

Also, no disrespect intended, but I disagree.

Service of process is an ESSENTIAL part of our legal system, both criminal and civil. NOTHING works without it.

You don't get to post a sign that makes you immune to civil suit. You DON'T want that, I promise you. The consequences would be horrible.

This is entirely different from trespass in the attempt to collect a debt. I worked for years as a bill collector and repossessor and we had VERY strict rules about where the property had to be located before we could take it. (Locked garage, behind locked gate, no. In a driveway regardless of signs, YES 'mostly').

Service of legal process is one of the more important functions of our system. Where it's inhibited you routinely get false process, which automatically vacates court judgements. Or you get like California USED TO HAVE, where only a specific agency (County Marshals) can serve process, which routinely involves actions that in any non-governmental agency would get you (rightfully) sued into oblivion. (add to that ridiculous costs. It was $35+ in 1985, FIGURE THAT WOULD BE $75 PLUS NOW.)

I'm a huge fan of civilian process servers. They tick off everyone who gets served, but they are the LEAST intrusive and effective method of getting an essential service done.

But no, I don't want the job. It's a lousy job, but someone has to do it. and some people, like apparently our OP, really dig it. More power to you. -BTW I have dogs, guns, a large BY and a shovel. -Just sayin.... /wink

 

[Stomper]

As much as I am RABIDLY ALL FOR private property rights, you can't just (legally) shoot someone (or point a gun DIRECTLY at them) for merely trespassing, and as amusing as it would be (to me anyway) nor can you (legally) set injurious boobie-traps (i.e. bear traps, punji-stake pits, door guns on a string, piano wire @ neck height across motorcycle trails, etc.) on/in your private property to prevent/punish trespassing.

I realize the context of this thread, but if I were ever trespassing on private property it would only be because I was unaware that I was, and if I had a pack of dogs turned loose on me, or a gun directly pointed (or shot) at me there'd most likely be a killin' one way or the other.

You have every right to confront/ascertain what a person (or persons) are doing on your private property then deal with them accordingly, but justified use of deadly force (or threat of deadly force) STILL applies in all cases.

 

[Certaindeaf]

Sounds like a scumbag. You don't come an angstrom from killing someone for simply knocking on your door. Hey mailman, dance! not

 

[duldej]

Police don't have much respect for Process Servers. The cop that I spoke with bragged about how when he served papers that the papers were all high-stake, criminal papers, like restraining orders, etc, but...

He's armed, and the same organization, the Sheriff's Office of Multnomah County has denied me a CHL.

The cop's (a Sheriff's deputy) bragging, to me, is like a fart in the wind. I was totally defenseless, and at the mercy of this hot-headed dick. Like the cop, I was just doing my job, but the tune definitely changes when you're armed, and attempting to serve papers.

I know, because when I was working as a Security Guard, I had to answer an alarm call once, and I found I had nothing on me but a ball point pen. I called the cops, and the Vancouver police officer showed-up. Without hesitation, cocks his shotgun, and we proceed into the building. He's pointing it in every direction, when he knocked on the doors of the building.

So, I am wondering, WTH. I need the CHL for professional reasons. Screw the discretionary prohibition that was used against me in denying me one.

In retrospect, there were plenty of opportunities for me to be ready to handle this guy in this situation, but when he's got the gun, and I've got an iPhone on me, and perhaps... a ball point pen, I am just standing there, dumbly.

Some of you guys posted that you regard service of due process as an essential part of the law, and it is, but cops cling to their guns, and consider me some sort of p*ssy. There is a double-standard, here. Maybe I am a fool, but I am not a p*ssy.

 

[Trlsmn]

Police don't have much respect for Process Servers. The cop that I spoke with bragged about how when he served papers that the papers were all high-stake, criminal papers, like restraining orders, etc, but...

He's armed, and the same organization, the Sheriff's Office of Multnomah County has denied me a CHL.

The cop's (a Sheriff's deputy) bragging, to me, is like a fart in the wind. I was totally defenseless, and at the mercy of this hot-headed dick. Like the cop, I was just doing my job, but the tune definitely changes when you're armed, and attempting to serve papers.

I know, because when I was working as a Security Guard, I had to answer an alarm call once, and I found I had nothing on me but a ball point pen. I called the cops, and the Vancouver police officer showed-up. Without hesitation, cocks his shotgun, and we proceed into the building. He's pointing it in every direction, when he knocked on the doors of the building.

So, I am wondering, WTH. I need the CHL for professional reasons. Screw the discretionary prohibition that was used against me in denying me one.

In retrospect, there were plenty of opportunities for me to be ready to handle this guy in this situation, but when he's got the gun, and I've got an iPhone on me, and perhaps... a ball point pen, I am just standing there, dumbly.

Some of you guys posted that you regard service of due process as an essential part of the law, and it is, but cops cling to their guns, and consider me some sort of p*ssy. There is a double-standard, here. Maybe I am a fool, but I am not a p*ssy.

Why were you denied a CHL?

 

[Stomper]

Why were you denied a CHL?

Yeah, how'd that come about? There is no such thing as "discretionary denial" in Oregon. If you are eligible under the ORS (i.e. not a convicted felon, no dishonorable military discharge, no mental health issues, no domestic violence or restraining order, etc.) it is a SHALL ISSUE affair.