Heavy 9mm

[jordanka16]

I just bought a Ruger PC Carbine, and am wanting to play around with some really heavy bullets. I don't have a can yet but a friend does and I plan to get one, so my goal is to create subsonic loads. With the longer barrel I figure I could get a little more energy out of a heavier than standard 147. Xtreme makes some 165s, anyone ever use them? I can find very little data.

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[Twodogs]

Nope I just run the 147gr out of both rifle and pistol.

 

[jordanka16]

Nope I just run the 147gr out of both rifle and pistol.

What length barrel is the rifle? Do the 147s stay subsonic?

My original post doesn't really seem clear after I read it, my thinking is that I will have to download the 147s to keep them subsonic out of the 16" barrel, if I could load the 165s to the same speed, I figure about 950-1000, I could get more energy.

 

[Twodogs]

16" ruger pc carbine 147gr with 3.4 grs of titegroup.

 

[Certaindeaf]

This fella is loading 180's and around 2.1gr of N310..

Heavy 9's

 

[gmerkt]

Is there much danger in running a heavy 9mm too slow in the longer carbine bbl. and getting one stuck? I'm thinking that I've seen under-powered .38 Specials stuck in six inch revolver bbls. Seems like when plumbing the depths, caution is indicated.

 

[jordanka16]

Is there much danger in running a heavy 9mm too slow in the longer carbine bbl. and getting one stuck? I'm thinking that I've seen under-powered .38 Specials stuck in six inch revolver bbls. Seems like when plumbing the depths, caution is indicated.

That's pretty much why I was wondering if anyone here had tried it.

I don't think I'll go as heavy as 180, but I will buy some of the 165s for a carbine load. They will be fun to test.

 

[gmerkt]

Well, now I'll tell a little story. One range where I'm member, we had an older gentleman who'd recently lost his wife. A bit later on, I saw him at the range and he had a new girlfriend with him. I guess it's okay to call a gal 45 or 50 a "girl" friend. Anyway, this guy was a shotgunner, he went over to the shotgun field to fire his .410 and left his girlfriend on the pistol range with an older Smith & Wesson K38 and a peanut can of .38 Special jacketed bullet reloads. This man used to buy stuff out of storage lockers at auction, some of his ammo came from this source; don't know if this particular batch did. That woman started firing away with the .38 Special, couldn't see an single hole in her target. Finally, she put the gun down and asked for some help. You guessed it, she'd stacked the six inch barrel of that fine revolver plumb full of bullets, right back to the forcing cone. Bullet #1 never cleared the barrel, and several subsequent bullets piled right up behind it.

The moral of this story is, you always need to keep in mind:

1. Barrel length

2. Bullet design and weight

3. Powder charge

In this particular matter, as I understand it .38 Special loaded for commercial sale wasn't offered in jacketed bullets until the 1960's. Up to that time, lead bullets were the common load for .38 Special. And, lead doesn't create as much friction going down a bore. Lots of those older .38 Special revolvers had longer barrels, lower-powered lead bullets wasn't a problem. When people started loading up heavier (158 gr., a typical weight for a lead bullet), jacketed bullets, they got into trouble with under-powered charges. In the 1970's, the Speer reloading manuals gave data for jacketed 158 gr. bullet loads; they no longer list it because of the potential for problems with this situation.

At this point, I will add one to my little list, above:

4. Purpose of the weapon.

I've owned an older Ruger PC4 carbine in .40 S&W, they are a fun little gun. I just loaded up "normal" pistol grade ammo for it, lead and jacketed alike.

With the 9mm carbine, first of all, you're starting out with a cartridge case that has very limited capacity. Presumably, the bullet seating depth must be at least X amount because if seated too far forward, it will jam into the leade of the rifling. Seated deeply, maybe high pressure issues, bulging case, etc., will ensue. Ammo manufacturers are making some 9mm with 158 and even 165 gr. bullets but they can do special things to make them work. Like boat tail 9mm bullets to prevent case bulge, brass tailored to the load (yes, it happens), maybe use a powder that we can't get as a canister grade.

Maybe some of the references you've seen for heavy bullet weight 9mm comes from load data that is designed for use in 9mm revolvers. More liberties may be taken with that because bullet seating depth isn't such an issue; you can seat the bullets way forward in revolver chambers. And there are quite a few 9mm revolvers floating around now.

9mm may not be the best choice for what you're trying to do with here but best wishes in your quest and above all, be safe.