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Heard That ATF has now Reclassified Pistol Grip Shotguns Under "Destuctuve Device"

Discussion in 'Legal & Political Archive' started by mauser54, Jan 24, 2011.

  1. mauser54

    mauser54 Spokane, Wa. Area Member

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    I don't know if there is any truth to this. But I heard an ugly rumor today that just recently without alerting the public that they have changed the classification of any and all pistol grip shotguns as a "Destructive Device".

    As I said this is just rumor that I heard, but the source I heard it from absolutely swears that his source was a very reputible inside source. And that the main reason they haven't alerted this new ruling to the general puublic yet is so they can at a later day use it to justfy raids upon american gun owners, knowing that we don't know the new ruling and thereby be caught with a destructive device, which would be a violation of federal law and a trip to the grey bar hotel.

    My question is, has anyone else heard of this rumor? And can someone find out if this is in fact true?
    If true then there certainly would be millions of american gun owners in violation of federal law and not know it.

    Not being paranoid, but as we all know most rumors are just that, just rumaors with no validity or truth behind it. But then there has been and are some rumors that turn out to be true.
     
  2. spengo

    spengo GLORIOUS CASCADIA Active Member

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    :bsflag:
    Sounds like just rumors to me.
     
  3. Cougfan2

    Cougfan2 Hillsboro, OR Well-Known Member

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    Normally I would pass this off as BS, but with what this administration has been doing, i.e. trying to accomplish thru regulation what they can't get done thru legislation, it wouldn't be a total surprise. Still I would like to find out if this is BS or not. Hopefully it is.
     
  4. bmgm37

    bmgm37 Coos Bay Active Member

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    This has not been a great secret, been all over the internet. Last I heard was it came about from the Shot Show when Taurus displayed a new 28ga revolver that got pulled the first day. ATF was suppose to make an announcement yesterday but never did. All the hype was that they were going to ban the IMPORT of the Saiga12. We will see....
     
  5. Cougfan2

    Cougfan2 Hillsboro, OR Well-Known Member

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    This makes sense. I had heard about the Taurus 28 ga revolver and the issue with the Saigas, but nothing definitive yet.
     
  6. rdb241

    rdb241 Puyallup Washington Gold Supporter Gold Supporter

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    Cool....I got my Saiga 12. Come get it boys......................................................................
     
  7. mauser54

    mauser54 Spokane, Wa. Area Member

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  8. mauser54

    mauser54 Spokane, Wa. Area Member

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  9. The Cheese

    The Cheese somewhere special Member

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    what I guess I am trying to understand and maybe its subtle and I missed it, but are they talking PG only shotguns where there is no buttstock? Or are they referring to shotguns that have both a PG + Buttstock, and the shotties that have just the PG (as useless as they are)? I will be pissed if its the latter as I cannot shoot a standard stocked shotgun thanks to breaking my right wrist several times. We shall see I suppose.
     
  10. PlayboyPenguin

    PlayboyPenguin Pacific Northwest Well-Known Member 2016 Volunteer

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    I believe the issue with the Taurus gun was because of the length combined with the caliber. That would be the case already with existing guns like that little shotgun Coctailer sells that i want so badly. I do not see any evidence that this is a new regulation nor do I see anything other than a blog/editorial that states otherwise. It seems like hysteria based on nothing but a misunderstanding of current regulations.
     
  11. Nwcid

    Nwcid Yakima and N of Spokane Well-Known Member

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    The issue is with PG ONLY "shotguns" and it has to do with definitions, Section

    Shotgun. A weapon designed or redesigned, made or remade, and
    intended to be fired from the shoulder
    , and designed or redesigned and
    made or remade to use the energy of the explosive in a fixed shotgun
    shell to fire through a smooth bore either a number of ball shot or a
    single projectile for each single pull of the trigger.


    A pistol griped shotgun does not meet this definition. Nor does it meet the definition of SBS (Short Barreled Shotgun)

    Short-barreled shotgun. A shotgun having one or more barrels less
    than 18 inches in length, and any weapon made from a shotgun, whether by
    alteration, modification, or otherwise, if such weapon as modified has
    an overall length of less than 26 inches.


    So what is it? Most guns that don't fit into a definition fall into the AOW (Any Other Weapon) group, http://www.atf.gov/publications/download/p/atf-p-5320-8/atf-p-5320-8-chapter-2.pdf but the PG "shotguns" don't really fit there either. That is the whole problem with the whole argument. It is a gun without a definition and the ATF does not like that. These rules are not new, they are just being read differently at the moment.


    When talking about the gun Coctailer sells, I am going to assume it is a Sebu or similar gun. They are made in 2 ways. IF it is made from a shotgun (see the definition above) then when "cut down" it becomes a SBS, since it was made from a shotgun. IF is was made from a gun that has never had a stock it is an AOW, since it was never a shotgun by definition. FWIW SBS is not legal in WA but AOW is legal in WA........

    In the case of the Taurus it can not be a SBS because it never has never meet the definition of shotgun. IF the gun is smooth bore (which I hear it was) then it would easily meet the AOW definition like the Sebu guns. If the Taurus is rifled it would fall into the DD category since it has a bore over 0.50".

    Hope that helps some.
     
  12. mauser54

    mauser54 Spokane, Wa. Area Member

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    Thanks Nwcid! Hopefully this helps alot. I was confused also if they meant just a shotgun with a pistol grip only, or any and all shotguns that has a buttstock wit a pistol grip. Again thanks for your input.
     
  13. Nwcid

    Nwcid Yakima and N of Spokane Well-Known Member

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    Not a problem. I didn't have an answer either, just a clearer stating of the problem.
     
  14. CarlMc

    CarlMc Safely north of Seattle Active Member

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    Dumb***es....
    Leave it to government to create a problem where one didn't exist before, then have to create additional legislation to deal with that very problem later.
     
  15. marty8587

    marty8587 NE Portland Active Member

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    I'm sure they will tell me what's legal!!
     
  16. A.I.P.

    A.I.P. UpperUS Active Member

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    Not leglislation: Regulation without representation!
     
  17. ob1

    ob1 49th parallel Well-Known Member

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    Hmmn..... Then, to continue down that road.... When the barrel of a PG shotgun is switched to a rifled slug barrel.......


     
  18. Dieselfuel12v

    Dieselfuel12v Bellingham Member

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    Another thing I need to buy while I can. They're just adding to my "what to buy myself for my birthday" list. So far I got, Saiga 12, pistol grip, as many 30 rounds mags as I feel I need for my AK/AR, and a few drums. And a few extended glock mags, in case I ever get a glock in the future.
     
  19. aslinged

    aslinged Southern Oregon Well-Known Member

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    Apparently since it's not a shotgun nor rifle it falls into the 'other weapon' category. Not to be confused with 'Any Other Weapon.'

    Basically everything is the same, but you have to be 21 to buy and they must be transferred within state lines or through an FFL---same as you'd have done before. Not a NFA regulated item.

    Not to say this could change or I could be wrong, but that's that 's my conclusion for the moment. Reason being: if this was true don't you think the manufacturers, retailers, shippers (including USPS) would have some very serious legal problems to contend with out of no where? Not gonna happen.
     
  20. Nwcid

    Nwcid Yakima and N of Spokane Well-Known Member

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    With the way things currently are nothing has changed, it is still a shotgun. Currently "sporting shotguns", pretty much anything that is not on the DD list now, are exempt from the over 0.50" rule. At the whim of the ATF that could change though which is part of the problem here.