Health Care with a Side of Gun Control

[fingolfen]

Health care debate has nothing to do with firearms, right??? Wrong…

In yet another intrusion into the lives of ordinary citizens, BBC News is reporting that the British Medical Association (BMA) wants to “tag” or “highlight” the medical records of individuals with firearm licenses. The article goes on to debate the various merits of the issue, from a decidedly anti-gun owner perspective for the most part. What should be instructive, and terrifying, to an American citizen is how this ties into our own debate over health care. The UK’s socialized health care is being used as a model by many proposing “reform” in Washington.

More here:

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[CEF1959]

This is a proposal from some group

In a foreign country

That will probably go nowhere

Even in that foreign country.

So I'm supposed to conclude what about things here in the USA?

 

[dario541]

The last couple of times I went to a doctor, I had to fill out a form that asked lots of questions. One question was "Do you own a gun?" I refused to answer because I can't think of any reason a doctor has to know. Of course he probably surmised that I did have one.
The Center for Disease Control (CDC-Part of the Federal Government) considers firearms to be a health hazzard right along with germs.
When the time is right, the Feds will sic all of their dogs on us.

 

[fingolfen]

The last couple of times I went to a doctor, I had to fill out a form that asked lots of questions. One question was "Do you own a gun?" I refused to answer because I can't think of any reason a doctor has to know. Of course he probably surmised that I did have one.
The Center for Disease Control (CDC-Part of the Federal Government) considers firearms to be a health hazzard right along with germs.
When the time is right, the Feds will sic all of their dogs on us.

CEF1959: Pretty much what he said - the next avenue for those opposed to gun rights is the "health care" and "public health" side of the issue... I know a lot of doctors that ask their patients about firearms... if you don't think it can happen, I think you're being too optomistic...

 

[Visceral]

I'm with CEF1959... ya'll are drawing some EXTREMELY tenuous connections from a possible proposal in a foreign country to something here. And who are the "many" proposing the British system of healthcare?

 

[gunnoob75]

So we should just ignore things like this?

That's the attitude that got Firearms laws so whacky to begin with.

Sorry CEF, I'd rather start saying "No!" now, than before it's too late. Even if it may be a very out-there situation.

Good luck with the "Do nothing" approach, though.

 

[sparkly_flea]

Kind of a stretch to say the least. Different country, different gun laws to begin with. Likely the last thing the reform sponsors want is something like that to distract from their efforts but I guess you can say anything on the Internet.

 

[Sawdust]

Hey ya' all...........WAKE UP!!!

This is not just happening in foreign countries it's happening right here!

Two cases to prove my point.

Case #1.
My father-in-law is a Kaiser member. As his guardian I have had to deal alot with his doctors. Twice now Kaiser doctors have asked if there are any guns in the home (his and mine and I am not a member of Kaiser). When asked why that was medically relevant I was told that it is "just survey information" that they were trying to compile. Also in the exam room at the office are pamphlets on the walls. One pamphlets "explains" the "dangers" of having a gun in the home. It also strongly suggests to children that they should let their doctor know if there are guns in the house. There was also a sticker on the back directing people to the Violence Policy Center for more information. WTF?


Case #2.
My children's doctor (Legacy group) also has asked if there are weapons in the house. They told me that they were following the recommendation of the American Academy of Pediatrics. Check out their own info packet.
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Actually read some of the recommendations to parents. And I quote:

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]The best way to keep your children safe from injury or death from guns is to NEVER have a gun in the home. [/FONT]

• [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] Do not purchase a gun, especially a handgun. [/FONT]
• [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] Remove all guns present in the home. [/FONT]
• [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] Talk to your children about the dangers of guns, and tell them to stay away from guns. [/FONT]
• [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] Find out if there are guns in the homes where your children play. If so, talk to the adults in the house about the dangers of guns to their families. [/FONT]

God (or whatever else you believe in) help us all.

 

[CEF1959]

You are pointing at examples in the current privately-run system. And if people will calm down and take a deep breath, they'll realize that no one is required to give information about gun ownership to any health care provider. And it's not even on the radar screen among current health-care reform proposals in this country.

Sure, someone may at some point propose requiring doctors to gather gun information. Wake me up when that's on the table, and I'll voice my objections. It might be true that fluoridated water is just a few steps away from swarthy communists taking advantage of our women-folk. But I'll wait until there's something real to worry about before barricading the wife and daughters in the basement. Overreacting is not the same thing as being vigilant.

I find these tenuous scare tactics an unhelpful part of the whole health-care debate.

 

[Scott]

CEF,

When is the time to become proactive? Many questionaires have gun questions in them now. My new homeowners wants to know how many guns I have, where are they stored, and are they kept seperate from the guns. The doctors ask are there guns in the home? You might think it is over reacting but you know it is no one's damn business what I have. Just like the stupid census and how many toilets you have and what time you leave to go to work. That's no one's damn business either. When a stupid gang banger gets shot do you think they Snoop Dogg how many guns he has? Gun questions are not part of the equation to health care or any other status. If you really don't see a relation to what has been done to what is happening that is fine but don't tell people they are overreacting to negative issues that effect all of the people who believe in the 2A. Things are changing and not always for the better and there are 100's of groups that want guns out and it has been a major fight that has been going on for years. If the pro gun groups just said lets wait and see what happens it would be to late already. I would have them over react and be prepared instead of waiting until it's to late.

 

[CEF1959]

The mere fact that some doctor asks whether you own a gun as part of a Centers for Disease Control survey -- too early to get excited.

The mere fact that some group in another country is suggesting that asking about guns be mandatory for doctors in that country -- too early to get excited.

If there's a rabid dog in the next county, I won't be barricading my doors. I'll wait until he's a danger. Otherwise I'll be in a bizarre heightened state of permanent fear and panic over all the things that aren't realistic dangers. That serves the interests of those who would like to manipulate me with fear, but it's not healthy or rational for me to go along.

 

[chris61182]

You are pointing at examples in the current privately-run system.

The mere fact that some doctor asks whether you own a gun as part of a Centers for Disease Control survey -- too early to get excited.

So which is it privately run or a government agency? And if it's the government agency like you suggest in your second post when is it time to get excited and tell them to stop asking these invasive questions?

 

[dario541]

I feel that Obama Bin Laden (OBL) may publicly keep a low profile on the issue of a gun ban during his first term. After all, King Willie (Clinton) the Slick later admitted that Democrats lost control of the House and Senate in 1994 and 1996 because of pushing for a gun ban. But, if OBL gets in for a second term, He becomes a "lame duck" president with NOTHING TO LOSE! Then He will go after our guns "FULL BORE" (GET IT?)! And He will use every method possible! The CDC, FBI, BATFE, Legislation, U.S. Marshalls, doctors, lawyers, schools, the census, possibly U.S. or foreign troops, and on and on. The medical field asking questions about guns right now may seem like a small thing but remember, a mighty oak tree grew from a tiny acorn! We should prepare NOW!!!

 

[Jamie6.5]

I have a few questions for the naysayers.
What are some of the most expensive wards to operate in a large city hospital?
Where are some of the most talented surgeons and nurses on-call to in a large city hospital?

Try the trauma ward. Pretty much car wrecks and gunshots are the only events that land patients in there.
Now, when the gov wants to dictate who gets treated and how the treaters get paid, they are going to need a revenue stream to pay the high prices trauma wards accrue.
Put that together with the FACT the O' wants a euro-model healthcare system and you have a recipe for gun registration and heavy heavy taxes on our guns and ammunition.
He77, they held "cash for clumkers" under the guise of getting gas guzzlers off the road. How much of a stretch is it to tax ammo for gunshot wounds?

The writing is on the wall people, I believe Fingolfen is correct, but only has part of the story so far. Ammo tax is right behind registrations on the list, or maybe it's the other way around.
Try to remember that before you advocate for government paid healthcare.
Just say no to government run healthcare.

 

[Scott]

The mere fact that some doctor asks whether you own a gun as part of a Centers for Disease Control survey -- too early to get excited.

The mere fact that some group in another country is suggesting that asking about guns be mandatory for doctors in that country -- too early to get excited.

If there's a rabid dog in the next county, I won't be barricading my doors. I'll wait until he's a danger. Otherwise I'll be in a bizarre heightened state of permanent fear and panic over all the things that aren't realistic dangers. That serves the interests of those who would like to manipulate me with fear, but it's not healthy or rational for me to go along.

Why is it to early to get excited? Its nobody business if you have guns in the house. How many knives do you own? Are they stored? Kept away from children? Are they in sheaths? Do you have any of 10" blades? These questions are as well useless and nobody's business. What is it going to take for you to get excited. Don't answer if you don't want but I am trying to figure out why you feel the whole situation is ok. We have a president who has voted for every legislation to ban guns, make it illegal to protect yourself and countless other votes against guns. The only reason we have are rights now is because people are proactive. Perfect examples of states that have not been proactive are California and Washington D.C. Look at their laws and many states will follow if people just sit back and not worry. If you think CA laws are ok just say so and I will respect that but not doing anything and sitting back will just set us farther behind in the 2A rights. I know I don't want to lose anymore rights than we have lost. Most of the bills that are always trying to passed are not made public you have to search for them and you can find hundreds of proposed bills trying to block gun laws. I respect you rights, thoughts, and beliefs but telling people not to get excited and wait until something happens is not correct. As soon as I see something that in unfair or innaccurate I notify my officials. With groups like ASHA, Brady Campaign, Handguns Inc, and many others along with the media not reporting accurately we need to be active to preserve our rights.

 

[dario541]

If for no other reason, consider this. The sooner you purchase items that are on a government "hit list", the deeper the records of these sales get buried. I admit, that in this computer age it will be hard to "lose" things, but I think getting guns and ammo now is the right way to go. Later WSHF it will be easier to keep what you have than to obtain something that you may want at that time.

 

[jimwsea]

We're well on our way to becoming a fascist state, but don't get excited until the government makes the official announcement.:huh:

 

[Stomper]

I don't know why it is so hard to believe that the president of the United States may be a Marxist, when we have so many Marxists now coming out of the closet. They are no longer afraid to say it... case in point: Congresswoman Diane Watson D-CA, 33rd District.

WATSON: It was just mentioned to me by our esteemed speaker, did anyone say anything about the Cuban health system. And let me tell you, before you say, oh, it's communist, you need to go down there and see what Fidel Castro put in place. And I want you to know now you can think whatever you want to about Fidel Castro, but he was one of the brightest leaders I have ever met. And, you know, the Cuban revolution that kicked out the wealthy, Che Guevera did that, and then after they took over they went out among the population to find someone who could lead this new nation, and they found &#8209;&#8209; well, just leave it there. An attorney by the name of Fidel Castro.

Here's a recording of her saying EXACTLY THAT on youtube:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5VaY4Fc3YkM&feature=related




Why is it so hard for people to believe that there is a Marxist revolution going on in this country? You don't believe it can happen here? More information for your consideration...



You have Van Jones, the "Green Jobs" Czar who describes himself as a "Community Organizer within the Federal Family". He is/was a part of the group, "STORM"... Standing Together to Organize Revolutionary Movements... they had/have study groups studying Marxists and Leninists ideas, as well has historical affects and tactics of communist movements in 3rd world countries.



You have Mark Lloyd who is the FCC "Diversity" Czar who thinks what Hugo Chavez did in Venezuela as an "Incredible Revolution"... that Chavez wouldn't have been thwarted the first time on his revolution if he would have had control of the radio stations and the television stations. He took it seriously the 2nd time around, and took control of all the media. Lloyd thinks the goverment should control ALL media in the USA...


There are almost THREE DOZEN Czars appointed by Obama. I find it fitting that they are radical Marxists.


You have Senator Jay Rockefeller D-WV who has recently introduced legislation that will allow a presidential ability to take control of the Internet and shut it down. The leftist in this country FIRMLY have the broadcast media in their pocket, they are trying to take on cable and satellite newsfeeds, as well as radio and the Internet, buy they have never been able to resonate in those mediums like Conservatisim has... so they will just sieze and control it since they can't compete in the arena of ideas. "... Rockefeller on video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ct9xzXUQLuY



The classic way for totalitarianism to advance is by use of "crisis" or "nemesis"...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WX0_5uhu8XI&feature=related





You have Congresswoman Maxine Waters D-CA, 35th District:

ON VIDEO saying to "evil" oil company execs,

This Liberal will be all about Socializ... (stopping, verbally fumbling, then changing her words) taking over, and the government running your companies...

Here's a couple links to the youtube videos... the 2nd one has a rather funny edit in the middle...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o3I-PVVowFY&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OrA9zj94NuU&feature=related


You want to talk about Rep. Nancy Pelosi D-CA, Rep. Barabara Boxer D-CA, and Michelle Obama next? I'd mention Sen. Ted Kennedy D-MA, but he can't hurt this country anymore.


These people in power are broadcasting LOUD AND CLEAR what they intend to do (and are doing). BTW- a LOT of this stuff was started in the Bush adminstration (and beyond)... I assume you were against what he was doing to errode our civil and Constitutional rights back then under the "guise" of the Patriot Act... why not now under Obama? I smell "Partisan Hypocrisy"...






Now to (somewhat) tie it back to the OP in this thread...


To quote Ronald Regan...

REAGAN: Now back in 1927 an American socialist, Norman Thomas, six times candidate for president on the Socialist Party ticket, said the American people would never vote for socialism. But he said under the name of liberalism the American people will adopt every fragment of the socialist program.

There are many ways in which our government has invaded the precincts of private citizens, the method of earning a living. But at the moment I'd like to talk about another way because this trip is with us and at the moment is more imminent.

One of the traditional methods of imposing statism or socialism on a people has been by way of medicine. It's very easy to disguise a medical program as a humanitarian project. Most people are a little reluctant to oppose anything that suggests medical care for people who possibly can't afford it.

Now, the American people, if you put it to them about socialized medicine and gave them a chance to choose, would unhesitatingly vote against it. We had an example of this. Under the Truman administration it was proposed that we have a compulsory health insurance program for all people in the United States, and, of course, the American people unhesitatingly rejected this.

So with the American people on record as not wanting socialized medicine, Congressman Ferrand said, if we can only break through and get our foot inside the door, they can we can expand the program after that. Well, let's see what the socialists themselves had to say about it. They say once the Ferrand bill is passed, this nation will be provided with a mechanism for socialized medicine capable of indefinite expansion in every direction until it includes the entire population. Well, we can't say we haven't been warned.

You don't think that "private" database on who answers those firearms questions at the docrtor's office won't be used by the goverment if they "take control and run" the medical establishment? You're foolish if you don't.


PLEASE... for God's sake, pull the cotton out of your ears, take the blinders from your eyes and DON'T replace them with rose colored glasses. The "powers that be" want us to fight amongst ourselves, they want the fires of partisan hatred to be stoked... to keep our eyes off the real game being played. This isn't about "Republicans", "Democrats", "Conservatives", or "Liberals".... it's about standing as AMERICANS on the basic, fundamental principals of our Constitution and drawing a line in the sand and declaring, YOU SHALL NOT PASS!!

This country can NEVER be conquered by foriegn armies.. they don't need to, the domestic enemies are doing it for them... the enemies are within the gates already. Americans take their liberty and freedoms for granted. Your rights were purchased in blood, maintained in blood, and are being sold out on paper. I have suffered for this country, I have fought for this country, I have KILLED for this country... now I see it dying on the vine, and its breaking my heart like its never been broken before.


You can poo-poo all of this as paranoid, partisan, discredited, unreliable, etc... that's your right (at the moment).

Paranoid am I? Take a deep breath & wait shall I? I think not.

 

[Scott]

People are in denial Stomper. So people like communism and feel it works good in Cuba, North Korea, China and other places. I on the other hand like to be free but you are right Obama and his crew are changing things at a fast past. We now own insurance companies, banks, auto companies and it seems labor is fast becoming part of that as well. At least they know what's best for us, I don't know what I would do without our government. I think I should get a free car too.

 

[dario541]

I wouldn't expect the government to ever make an official announcement that we have become a communist-socialist nation. They are well versed in using "NEWSPEAK". As the Nazis wrote on the front of Aushwitz: "Arbeit Macht Frei", that is "Work Makes you free". The government is always reminding us how "free" we are; we might not know otherwise.