Health Care Bill and Gun Compromise...

[mudnducs]

So, this is you refuting the figures I provided after you apparently did some extensive research? I have provided more accurate facts and figures in this website than any one else, there is no one even close, and as to the arguments your sinde make, well where are they I can't seem to find any in this sea of dittohead emotional pablum.

I like Jefferson, but we don't have access to his opinion of the current state of our legal system, but it so easy to say he would be down with your opinion, why stop at one throw in Plato and John Wayne!

You don't get our legal system, it is a pay per use system and if you pay enough you can nearly get any decision.

Here you go:

http://www.cahi.org/cahi_contents/resources/pdf/CAHI_Medicare_Admin_Final_Publication.pdf

 

[U201491]

Come on man....you're pulling your point too far.

Are you saying that people like Ken Lay shouldn't be rotting in prison? Surely not. If you don't pay your debts...you are stealing just as sure as that creep.
If you can steal with impunity, what's the down side?

We fought for independence for independence.

Ken Lay was a criminal. What I refer to is the people that have lost jobs, laid off, and believe me it can happen to you too. Millions that were making good money for years have found themselves having to accept far lower paying jobs, but I don't see the bills and cost of living going down to the same levels. Thus they end up with large debt loads with no recourse. Most of the result of that is due to allowing illegal cheap labor flooding into the country, corporations moving offshore, or going bankrupt. Are you not living in the same country? Are you independently wealthy? Debt under any of these situations should NEVER be a reason to imprison anyone. Your example was corporate corruption and theft which took millions from citizens. ..
You are comparing grapes and coconuts. Being unable to afford a thousand a month for government health insurance when you have 20.00 left after the monthly expenses is also NOT a reason to imprison anyone !
Yet that is what they are going to do according to that bill. It would not hurt my feelings one bit if all that voted for that bill got buried by hot lava. There was no humanity in that bill. It was done for Socialistic Control reasons and nothing more.

 

[mudnducs]

So, this is you refuting the figures I provided after you apparently did some extensive research? I have provided more accurate facts and figures in this website than any one else, there is no one even close, and as to the arguments your sinde make, well where are they I can't seem to find any in this sea of dittohead emotional pablum.

I like Jefferson, but we don't have access to his opinion of the current state of our legal system, but it so easy to say he would be down with your opinion, why stop at one throw in Plato and John Wayne!

You don't get our legal system, it is a pay per use system and if you pay enough you can nearly get any decision.

I don't believe you do like Jefferson or his ideals. He would have hunted guys like you down.
The current state of our legal system is a direct result of slimy progressives turning it on itself.
I think I 'get' our legal system as well as anyone....is this more fact?

 

[mudnducs]

[QU=Taku;204264]Ken Lay was a criminal.
Yes...and he should pay for his crime.


What I refer to is the people that have lost jobs, laid off, and believe me it can happen to you too. Millions that were making good money for years have found themselves having to accept far lower paying jobs, but I don't see the bills and cost of living going down to the same levels.
That's bad isn't it. How much did they save for a rainy day?


Thus they end up with large debt loads with no recourse.
Why? Didn't they cut back on their lifestyle? Didn't they save anything?


Most of the result of that is due to allowing illegal cheap labor flooding into the country, corporations moving offshore, or going bankrupt.
So are you saying I should pay his debts AND allow illegals in so his debt can be further increased?


Are you not living in the same country? Are you independently wealthy? Debt under any of these situations should NEVER be a reason to imprison anyone.
Has bankruptcy been declared illegal while I wasn't looking?


Your example was corporate corruption and theft which took millions from citizens.
But it's OK if millions just take a few bucks? It's all about the precedent.


You are comparing grapes and coconuts. Being unable to afford a thousand a month for government health insurance when you have 20.00 left after the monthly expenses is also NOT a reason to imprison anyone !
Here I stand with you. I'm simply willing to go to jail if it comes to that as I will NOT pay anything the Fed demands I pay. But there's a huge difference between being unable and unwilling. The Obamessiah is entirely about taking from those who are unwilling and giving to those who are unable....with a little cut off the top for themselves don'tcha know"



Yet that is what they are going to do according to that bill. It would not hurt my feelings one bit if all that voted for that bill got buried by hot lava. There was no humanity in that bill. It was done for Socialistic Control reasons and nothing more.
Remember the bile that rises in your throat this November...remember when you think about the stench rising off this outrage and thank your progressive neighbor.

 

[bugeye]

"fascist republicans" eh? OK Bubba.

Isn't it just like progreeeeesives socialists to demand that their neighbor pay their bills at the point of a law...but call those that balk at that unConstitutional notion...as facist? Funny eh?


Isn't it just like progreeeeesive socialists to demand that we pay a trillion dollars to cover something they admit is already being paid for! "....before they show up in the emergency room for $50,000 worth of care that we will pay for"
But conservatives are the fascists.


Isn't it funny when progrreeeeesive socialists shred the Constitution by insisting in nonexistent interpretations...trying to destroy the greatest nation, the nation that has done the most good for the most men in this history of mankind....so that they can implement a one world utopian vision by "spreading the wealth arooound a little".

But conservatives are the fascists! .....

You guys are knee jerk reactionaries, real conservatives actually not only like, but use facts in making decisions.

It is crazy to think you are the absolute arbitor of what is and what isn't constitutional. Facism grows from this sort of non thinking. You have to admit what you know and what you don't otherwise you go through life like a new rock group, 99.9% attitude and .1% what your guitar teacher taught you.

Your 2nd argument makes no sense, yes we are paying for it now at the emergency room, and there were deals made with the providers taking this into consideration but these weren't made public, so they aren't in the CBO's cost assesment of the law.

And then more emotional wrapping youself in the flag, sheesh man, you argue like a girl!

I guess you think there is no politics working now to adjust the flow of weatlh, I suppose you think our current system is fair and level, sheesh. Yes the workings of the money in manipulating politics is to keep it fair so that they don't get any advantages, yes our wealthy and our corporations they do it all for us.

Wow, talk about a utopia!

Facism is what happens when the government and the corporations (or in the old days large companies) get together and run the country for their benefit without regard to the public. 5 Republican nominees recently made a huge stride toward facism by declaring that corporations are fee to particpate in the election of candidates without any regulations.

 

[mudnducs]

You guys are knee jerk reactionaries, real conservatives actually not only like, but use facts in making decisions.

It is crazy to think you are the absolute arbitor of what is and what isn't constitutional. Facism grows from this sort of non thinking. You have to admit what you know and what you don't otherwise you go through life like a new rock group, 99.9% attitude and .1% what your guitar teacher taught you.

Your 2nd argument makes no sense, yes we are paying for it now at the emergency room, and there were deals made with the providers taking this into consideration but these weren't made public, so they aren't in the CBO's cost assesment of the law.

And then more emotional wrapping youself in the flag, sheesh man, you argue like a girl!

I guess you think there is no politics working now to adjust the flow of weatlh, I suppose you think our current system is fair and level, sheesh. Yes the workings of the money in manipulating politics is too keep it fair so that they don't get any advantages, yes our wealthy and our corporations they do it all for us.

Wow, talk about a utopia!

You guys are knee jerk reactionaries, real conservatives actually not only like, but use facts in making decisions.

Rest assured...I'm a real conservative. Just ask me.




It is crazy to think you are the absolute arbitor of what is and what isn't constitutional. Facism grows from this sort of non thinking. You have to admit what you know and what you don't otherwise you go through life like a new rock group, 99.9% attitude and .1% what your guitar teacher taught you.

Pssst...it's arbiter genius.
First: Show me where I said I thought that? I can see why you would think that by comparison to your grasp...but I'm no Levin....then again Obama taught Constitutional law didn't he? Hmmm...I think there's a lesson in there somewhere.

Second: Fascism grows from a reliance on and a desire for the state....I'm pretty sure people can tell whether it's you or I who is an advocate of the state....Bubba.




Your 2nd argument makes no sense, yes we are paying for it now at the emergency room, and there were deals made with the providers taking this into consideration but these weren't made public, so they aren't in the CBO's cost assesment of the law.

Little I say makes sense to you...you're a lib, you have none. But I don't mind explaining to the less able. We are already paying...everyone already gets health care....ironically on a Constitutional basis! Isn't that a twist of fate! So!
Why is it again you demand I pay out an additional 1000 billion dollars to pay for something that, by your own admission, is already being paid for?



And then more emotional wrapping youself in the flag, sheesh man, you argue like a girl!

Yes yes...I swish like a girl. Are you racist too?




I guess you think there is no politics working now to adjust the flow of weatlh, I suppose you think our current system is fair and level, sheesh. Yes the workings of the money in manipulating politics is too keep it fair so that they don't get any advantages, yes our wealthy and our corporations they do it all for us.

Wow, talk about a utopia

I think it's none of the governments damned business what my business is, who or how my family is cared for and how much or where I spend my hard earned dollars. Further I take great umbrage with any mutt who thiks he can reach into my pocket with impunity thru some creepy progreeeesive politician 3000 miles from my door.
I think we are guaranteed a right to pursue our happiness...nothing more.
Thomas Jefferson(the guy you claim to “like”) was about the unobtrusiveness of government and about self rule. I don't think you “like” him at all.
You...you are just clueless
You got that Bubba?

 

[U201491]

We are already paying...everyone already gets health care....ironically on a Constitutional basis! Isn't that a twist of fate! So!
Why is it again you demand I pay out an additional 1000 billion dollars to pay for something that, by your own admission, is already being paid for?

One thing that bill did is make sure every socialist that is there will be getting the boot in November Then we have to make sure their theatre is never opened again.
None of them can see that simple reform of the Insurance industry, and allowing competitiveness in every state would have resolved the entire problem,
No they had to pass (unlawfully in my opinion) a 2000 page bill that forces more beauacracy, insane laws and socialist garbage and even giving them access to every citizens bank account to withdraw funds at their whim,
and they did that too.... 2000 pages to hide what they don't want any of us to know. It could have all been resolved with, again...simple insurance reform...........
and simple tort reform to bring costs down... No that was too easy and they could not have ever passed their other tyranical parts of the bill without the disguize of "Health Care Bill"

 

[mudnducs]

One thing that bill did is make sure every socialist that is there will be getting the boot in November Then we have to make sure their theatre is never opened again.
None of them can see that simple reform of the Insurance industry, and allowing competitiveness in every state would have resolved the entire problem,
No they had to pass (unlawfully in my opinion) a 2000 page bill that forces more beauacracy, insane laws and socialist garbage and even giving them access to every citizens bank account to withdraw funds at their whim,
and they did that too.... 2000 pages to hide what they don't want any of us to know. It could have all been resolved with, again...simple insurance reform...........
and simple tort reform to bring costs down... No that was too easy and they could not have ever passed their other tyranical parts of the bill without the disguize of "Health Care Bill"

We are on the same page my friend.

Maybe I'm more cynical though....I think the progs/socialists know full well that insurance reform is all that's needed.

This is only the first step.
It's not about "health care reform"...it's about "fundamental change" and "Hoooope". We heard it over and over again for months. Dimwits cheered for it.

It's entirely about changing America into just another nation instead of letting her be a beacon for free men the world over.
It's about power and subversion of the rights of free men. It's about socialism and the growth of totalitarian government our Founding Fathers hated so.
Health care is just the vehicle..it's the excuse and they've conned thick headed zealots carry their water for them.

 

[Stomper]

The odds of me ending up in prison are slight, but based on your advanced anger management problem, your deep feelings of persecution, and your wild opinions that are backed by arguments that couldn't win a kindergarden debate, I wouldn't give you a year.

 

[Partsproduction]

Being unable to afford a thousand a month for government health insurance when you have 20.00 left after the monthly expenses is also NOT a reason to imprison anyone !

Talk about grapes and coconuts! What you are describing is not what I was talking about.

I was talking about a contract taken on voluntarily by both parties. You're talking about theft by the government on the pretense of providing a service they have no intention of providing.

The healthsnare nightmare is about government thieving from the people for the purposes of an orgy of government power over them. Not paying when someone sticks a gun in your ribs is an act of defiance, and is commendable,
since they never agreed to buy anything the government unconstitutionally tries to force them to buy that is not theft.

My point is that the thieves do deserve prison, mainly the difference is in who we are identifying as the thieves. President Obama and the demonrats in the Congress and Senate are the thieves, and again, they should go to prison for life for what they are doing to us with their heavy hand.

 

[bugeye]

Rest assured...I'm a real conservative. Just ask me.[/I]

I]

You could have checked the validity of the figures I provided rather than just dismissing them as wrong. You didn't, too much trouble to get informed?

I also type at the speed of light and I don't spell check, if your a stickler for detail I suggest you stop worrying about my spelling and actually learn something about the topics you're so darn sure about.


"Whenever the people are well-informed, they can be trusted with
their own government." --Thomas Jefferson to Richard Price, 1789.

Who here is well informed? Jefferson was not talking about being brainwashed by bozos, either.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2010-03-23-health-poll-favorable_N.htm

WASHINGTON — More Americans now favor than oppose the health care overhaul that President Obama signed into law Tuesday, a USA TODAY/Gallup Poll finds — a notable turnaround from surveys before the vote that showed a plurality against the legislation.
By 49%-40%, those polled say it was "a good thing" rather than a bad one that Congress passed the bill. Half describe their reaction in positive terms — as "enthusiastic" or "pleased" — while about four in 10 describe it in negative ways, as "disappointed" or "angry."

I'm with the group that says we need to do more, and your with the angry minority. I think the angry minority lacks facts and make crazy emotional arguments, most of them well over the top.

There were deals made with the Obama Admin and pharma, insurance and providers regarding future prices, that were done before the bill started. Not all that was agreed to was made public but there were discounts agreed to in exchange for letting them make more than reasonable profits. This is the argument I use to try and show you righties that Obama is no socialist, but it fails usually because you folks could care less about facts, especially ones that get in the way of your emotional reactions. The congressional budget office can't take these details into consideration when it extimates what a bill will cost, but there will be additional savings based on these factors. Providers will be writing off less 'unpaid fo'r treatments and that should result in lower costs for all services and that should end up as a savings on insurance premium rates, but these are all private outfits, and are profit motivated, so what savings actually show up is anyones guess. I'd like the gov to check them and clamp down on abuses. By making health care insurance manditory it become a utility and utilities are subject to lots of regulation, like a power or gas company.

Liberals are people that make decisions based on an open minded consideration of the facts. Conservaties are people who make decisions based on a more traditional consideration of the facts.


Show me the facts!

 

[bugeye]

Here you go:

http://www.cahi.org/cahi_contents/resources/pdf/CAHI_Medicare_Admin_Final_Publication.pdf

This says actuallmedicare costs are 5.2% of overhead and I said 6%, so I used a figure higher than this report.

The repor exempts a lot of private insurance overhead from the average of $26 percent, but in reality none of these are cost the government would have to pay so my argument stands.

In addition, the report, done by the insurance industry, fails to consider the $500 per person spent by providers trying to get paid from dozens of different insurance companies with hundreds of different policy rules, given a single payer system this all get streamlined and there is a huge savings right there.

But I am so pleased you actually did some looking, the objectivity of the site you found is rather pitiful though, I mean really, a made to spec document by the insurance industry showing how efficient they are, sheesh. But it is true that there are some additional costs that private insurance has that the government woudn't have like take buying congresspeople for one, or advertising, or marketing, or huge CEO bonus money, or trips to Paris for executive meetings, or gold plated toilet paper in the exec bathrooms, or tiny dividends to shareholders. Oh yeah, I left out the super tiny amount they they pay in taxes, sheesh. Again, all things the gov won't have to pay.

 

[mudnducs]

You could have checked the validity of the figures I provided rather than just dismissing them as wrong. You didn't, too much trouble to get informed?

I also type at the speed of light and I don't spell check, if your a stickler for detail I suggest you stop worrying about my spelling and actually learn something about the topics you're so darn sure about.


"Whenever the people are well-informed, they can be trusted with
their own government." --Thomas Jefferson to Richard Price, 1789.

Who here is well informed? Jefferson was not talking about being brainwashed by bozos, either.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2010-03-23-health-poll-favorable_N.htm

WASHINGTON — More Americans now favor than oppose the health care overhaul that President Obama signed into law Tuesday, a USA TODAY/Gallup Poll finds — a notable turnaround from surveys before the vote that showed a plurality against the legislation.
By 49%-40%, those polled say it was "a good thing" rather than a bad one that Congress passed the bill. Half describe their reaction in positive terms — as "enthusiastic" or "pleased" — while about four in 10 describe it in negative ways, as "disappointed" or "angry."

I'm with the group that says we need to do more, and your with the angry minority. I think the angry minority lacks facts and make crazy emotional arguments, most of them well over the top.

There were deals made with the Obama Admin and pharma, insurance and providers regarding future prices, that were done before the bill started. Not all that was agreed to was made public but there were discounts agreed to in exchange for letting them make more than reasonable profits. This is the argument I use to try and show you righties that Obama is no socialist, but it fails usually because you folks could care less about facts, especially ones that get in the way of your emotional reactions. The congressional budget office can't take these details into consideration when it extimates what a bill will cost, but there will be additional savings based on these factors. Providers will be writing off less 'unpaid fo'r treatments and that should result in lower costs for all services and that should end up as a savings on insurance premium rates, but these are all private outfits, and are profit motivated, so what savings actually show up is anyones guess. I'd like the gov to check them and clamp down on abuses. By making health care insurance manditory it become a utility and utilities are subject to lots of regulation, like a power or gas company.

Liberals are people that make decisions based on an open minded consideration of the facts. Conservaties are people who make decisions based on a more traditional consideration of the facts.


Show me the facts!

I don't care about your facts.
You're facts are irrelevant.
It doesn't matter if I show you facts....a progreeesive would argue whether a car should use unleaded or premium or go solar (and be righteously convinced of his correctness) while driving the car off a cliff.

You claim that government is efficient in dispensing healthcare now while there is still some competition and the populace still has some recourse to turn elsewhere....Ok. I can grant you that possibility. But just to be clear I in no way believe this to be the case as the link I psoted address...there are many costs government simply doesn't include in their calculation of "overhead" that the private sector does.
Whoopee...run with that will you?

Should government take over education for the same reason?

Should government take over the energy industry for the same reason?

Should government take over the transportation industry for the same reason?

Should government take over the banking and mortgage industry for the same reason?

You seeing a trend here Skippy?



btw ...you like Jefferson? surely you've heard this one.

A wise and frugal government, which shall leave men free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement, and shall not take from the mouth of labor the bread it has earned - this is the sum of good government.

You like Jefferson? pfft. Fascist.

 

[bugeye]

I don't care about your facts.
You're facts are irrelevant.
It doesn't matter if I show you facts....a progreeesive would argue whether a car should use unleaded or premium or go solar (and be righteously convinced of his correctness) while driving the car off a cliff.

You claim that government is efficient in dispensing healthcare now while there is still some competition and the populace still has some recourse to turn elsewhere....Ok. I can grant you that possibility. But just to be clear I in no way believe this to be the case as the link I psoted address...there are many costs government simply doesn't include in their calculation of "overhead" that the private sector does.
Whoopee...run with that will you?

Should government take over education for the same reason?

Should government take over the energy industry for the same reason?

Should government take over the transportation industry for the same reason?

Should government take over the banking and mortgage industry for the same reason?

You seeing a trend here Skippy?



btw ...you like Jefferson? surely you've heard this one.

A wise and frugal government, which shall leave men free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement, and shall not take from the mouth of labor the bread it has earned - this is the sum of good government.

You like Jefferson? pfft. Fascist.

I did the site you furnished and I trashed the validity of any arguments you thought they were making.

Government does lots of things.

At this point in time some private companies are doing primary and secondary education we will have to see how well they do, but if they can do a better job for less money I'm all all for it! There have always been private and religious schools and many universites too.

Last time I looked Exxon Mobile was not owned by the US gov, so I don't get your point here. Oil is traded on a futures market that is fairly criminal in its workings, as players manipulating the prices (usually up) is how it is intended to work. How else do you think you can get $100 a barrel for pumpable dirt? So far the gov has done nothing about it. I'd actually like them to do a lot in energy, I'd like them to spend a trillion bucks on fusion, cause that investment would pay back a billion to one. Of course for an example of the pure free market we have ENRON, yeap that deregulation thing worked out real well.

The gov ended up with GM and Chrysler and a few banks and insurance companies because they saved them from going boom. They did that because of that because of the credit default swap, and seeing as the financials have spent many hundreds of millions bribeing congress they may never be regulatated. I hope this admin has enough gumption to go after them next and that they can conclude it before your beloved repubs gain power and bend opver to give the money anything it wants.

So, yes I am seeing a trend here as the banks and insurance outfits pay the feds back as quickly as possible so they can be free to lavish as much booty as possible on the executives of these fine wall street casinos. I'm not seeing the gov takeover of your dreams though, I'm seeing the corporations about to take over the government, a matter helped along by 5 republican nominees in the supreme court who really believe that justice is only the intrests of the stronger party.

 

[mudnducs]

I did the site you furnished and I trashed the validity of any arguments you thought they were making.

Government does lots of things.

Yes...and that was an insightful and concise Fisking you gave too! <G>

"Lot's of things?"
Yes...that's kinda the problem. They're outside their boundary...and morons are cheering for more.
So long as we have progreeeessives willing to look first to government to fix what they see as a problem...we will have continued growth in government.
There is no end for a socialist/ prog. There is no boundary they will not cross.
It is never enough until our society resembles Chinas....maybe that will be enough.

Ironic that China has turned to capitalism to bring vibrancy and stature to the largest nation on earth...no?

At this point in time some private companies are doing primary and secondary education we will have to see how well they do, but if they can do a better job for less money I'm all all for it! There have always been private and religious schools and many universites too.

No...you're not all for it. You look to government first. We'll continue to establish that as we go along.

Last time I looked Exxon Mobile was not owned by the US gov, so I don't get your point here. Oil is traded on a futures market that is fairly criminal in its workings, as players manipulating the prices (usually up) is how it is intended to work. How else do you think you can get $100 a barrel for pumpable dirt? So far the gov has done nothing about it. I'd actually like them to do a lot in energy, I'd like them to spend a trillion bucks on fusion, cause that investment would pay back a billion to one. Of course for an example of the pure free market we have ENRON, yeap that deregulation thing worked out real well.

See Cap & Trade...you're mutt in the White House thinks glowingly in those terms. You support his ideals. Therefore I have no reason to believe you think differently.
Your declaration that you'd "actually like them to do a lot in energy"...speaks volumes of your vision.
Fusion would pay back a billion to 1....is this a fact?
You'd like to see them vacuum yet another trillion bucks out of my pocket so you can have fusion...is that a fact?

You are the enemy of free men. I suppose it's because they can actually do things.
I'd even go out on a limb and take a bet you believe in anthropomorphic "global warming/cooling/climatechange/climatecrisis".
How much did ENRON cost? We're the folks who lost money there required by law to invest there? Did they take a risk? You are one clueless individual.

I think, no..I know, you're a thief who uses the political process to steal from me for your vision.
That's not governments function....I thought you said you "liked Jefferson" no?

The gov ended up with GM and Chrysler and a few banks and insurance companies because they saved them from going boom. They did that because of that because of the credit default swap, and seeing as the financials have spent many hundreds of millions bribeing congress they may never be regulatated. I hope this admin has enough gumption to go after them next and that they can conclude it before your beloved repubs gain power and bend opver to give the money anything it wants.

Sure sure...it was only GM...it was only Chrysler and a "few banks". What we actually did was save the auto workers fat cat pensions. But you're not a thief.

CEO penions and golden parachutes are piddling...but they make great press if you want to foment class warfare don't they?

Nice to see you coming clean...hoping this administration has enough "gumption" to take over ever more of the economy before conservatives can stop them.
It's never enough for a whining prog...ever. Wah.
Didn't you say you were for smaller, less obtrusive governemtn (gimme)...and that you "liked" Jefferson? LMMFAO!!!!!

So, yes I am seeing a trend here as the banks and insurance outfits pay the feds back as quickly as possible so they can be free to lavish as much booty as possible on the executives of these fine wall street casinos. I'm not seeing the gov takeover of your dreams though, I'm seeing the corporations about to take over the government, a matter helped along by 5 republican nominees in the supreme court who really believe that justice is only the intrests of the stronger party.

Yes yes...the evil rich. None of them worked for a dime they earned...they didn't build the greatest nation in the history of the planet. It was us workers who built it. Those conniving CEO's simply weaseled their way into positions of power and authority. The hive would have come up with it on our own.
BTW, Jimmy, the government takeover is not of my dreams...Jimmy....you're projecting.
Way to go!

dupe
n.
1. An easily deceived person.
2. A person who functions as the tool of another person or power.
tr.v. duped, dup&#8226;ing, dupes
To deceive (an unwary person). See Synonyms at deceive. See bugeye.

 

[Stomper]

There were deals made with the Obama Admin and pharma, insurance and providers regarding future prices, that were done before the bill started. Not all that was agreed to was made public but there were discounts agreed to in exchange for letting them make more than reasonable profits. This is the argument I use to try and show you righties that Obama is no socialist...

Since when was it EVER the government's job to "let" someone make a profit, regardless of the amount? This is your argument to show President Obama is no socialist? Beggin' yer pardon there Tex, 'cuz I only have EIGHT YEARS in the Army fightin' agin' them thar commie hordes and seein' FIRST HAND the devestation they inflict... and what you are describing smells (and smacks) of a socialist.


Progressivism, Socialism, Communism, Statism, and (yes) Corporatism... its like PRon (spelled that way on purpose), you can't put a solid definition on it because "they" keep changing the rules and obfuscating their true goals.... but I know it when I see it.

 

[mudnducs]

Since when was it EVER the government's job to "let" someone make a profit, regardless of the amount? This is your argument to show President Obama is no socialist? Beggin' yer pardon there Tex, 'cuz I only have EIGHT YEARS in the Army fightin' agin' them thar commie hordes and seein' FIRST HAND the devestation they inflict... and what you are describing smells (and smacks) of a socialist.


Progressivism, Socialism, Communism, Statism, and (yes) Corporatism... its like PRon (spelled that way on purpose), you can't put a solid definition on it because "they" keep changing the rules and obfuscating their true goals.... but I know it when I see it.

Yes. Well put. All those terms apply because as soon as a description is found out....they'll morph.

Who was it who said "Americans would never adopt socialism/communism except if it was called 'liberalism' "?
Know them by their deeds...not their words.

 

[Stomper]

Keep an eye on the various churches now... you're going to see "social justice" being bantied about in those circles on a larger scale. Being as I have some military "experience" in Latin America, the way the commies ushered in their system was through co-opting and working through the churches to covince the masses, as they were chaffing under corrupt dictators of one flavor or another, but then again that has been an age old problem for that region since the days of the Aztec, Mya, and Inca... that's why they all finally fell when the Conquistadors arrived. They were too rotted from within to resist and they ALL wound up having their wealth stolen, and their societies "remade" (mainly into slavery and squalor).... wow, see any parallels there?



Whenever a separation is made between liberty and justice, neither, in my opinion, is safe. -Edmund Burke

 

[bugeye]

Yes...and that was an insightful and concise Fisking you gave too! <G>

Lets do this first, my point was that the federal gov delivers health care insurance at 10 to 20&#37; greater efficiency than the private companies. In response to this you linked a site with a document by the insurance industry that seeks to dispute my contention. The first thing I pointed out was that your cite show medicare at a higher level of efficiency than I claimed, one more point for me and my figures. Then they used the industry declared spending of the insurance companies to show how they spend the extra overhead, and I said that the government wouldn't have to pay any of that stuff, and that is true. So my point stands, and is accurate, frisking indeed!

 

[bugeye]

Since when was it EVER the government's job to "let" someone make a profit, regardless of the amount? This is your argument to show President Obama is no socialist? Beggin' yer pardon there Tex, 'cuz I only have EIGHT YEARS in the Army fightin' agin' them thar commie hordes and seein' FIRST HAND the devestation they inflict... and what you are describing smells (and smacks) of a socialist.


Progressivism, Socialism, Communism, Statism, and (yes) Corporatism... its like PRon (spelled that way on purpose), you can't put a solid definition on it because "they" keep changing the rules and obfuscating their true goals.... but I know it when I see it.

So, you want the gov to just go away and not regulate interactions between corporations (business) and the public? When corporations price fix that is ok with you. When they buy competion so there is no competion than that's ok with you too. When they produce bonds that sell so they drive the price of real estate through the roof by giving home loans to anyone, hey no problem. Your 'paradise' would be a system fit for the 8th layer of hades, sheesh.

What you are seeing is between your two ears.