Head For The Hills?

[EZLivin]

I myself will be sticking close to home, not so much to "protect" what I have, but because heading for the hills is not the solution many seem to think it is....With the satellite technology that the government has now, you can run but you can't hide! No, I think I'll link up with friends and neighbors and stay home.

I'm not really sure why a government would even want to scour the woods for people who bugged out during a SHTF event. But if they did all they would have to do is wait a year or so. About 99% of the folks would be dead for the following reasons:

1) Shot each other.
2) Starvation.
3) Dysentery.
4) Accident induced trauma.
5) Medical emergencies.
6) Fried (as result of the forest fires they set by accident).

 

[CHLChris]

Satellite technology and the ability to locate resistance is one thing, manpower to enforce is quite another. The majority (and that may only be 51%) of U.S. Military service men/women are constitutionally minded and, I believe, will not take arms against U.S. Citizens. They then, along with their resources, become our allies against a tyrannical Govt. This brings to light the need for said tyrannical Govt. to employ an unsympathetic force to do its dirty work. I think these will come from several sources: 1)Domestic sources like organized gangs, racially motivated groups, and private security contractors. 2)Foreign sources like U.N. troops, foreign military, and foreign mercenaries.

There is a lot to be said about the more right-minded Conservative nature of our armed forces (and perhaps police). But they are also (and this is a good thing) trained to accept orders and obey authority. In a slowly degrading, increasingly tyrannical order, the military/police would not be our ally. It would only be in an instantaneous, radical assumption of power from on high that would be enough to shake those Constitutionally-minded military men and woman into leaving their posts.

I don't even want to think about what it would take...

 

[riverrat373]

I'm not really sure why a government would even want to scour the woods for people who bugged out during a SHTF event. But if they did all they would have to do is wait a year or so. About 99% of the folks would be dead for the following reasons:

1) Shot each other.
2) Starvation.
3) Dysentery.
4) Accident induced trauma.
5) Medical emergencies.
6) Fried (as result of the forest fires they set by accident).

+1

 

[Riot]

As far as concealment in the woods from satellites and drones or what have you, I find this to be a little far fetched. I would think that the "gubbermint" would have alot more pressing matters to attend to if there was some societal collapse than chasing non-combatant individuals through the mountains tracking them with night vision, thermal imaging, satellites, etc. Doesn't it seem much more likely that they would need those resources for other more important things? Unless you were the leader of the resistance I dont think that they would expend so much effort looking for a guy and his family trying to avoid trouble up in the hills. But I could be wrong.

However unlikely, each possibility must be considered. True, the feds will probably have their hands full with other pressing matters. Nevertheless, you've seen how much people just kind of "go in line" with things and drink the cool aid thus far. I doubt it will be too far fetched to anticipate a scenario whereas the feds try to establish a foothold against dissidents before social collapse.

Many people think that the balloon will just go up and everyone will know when we're truly in trouble...I dissagree. As slowly as our economy is degrading, I think the social order will slowly degrade as well (IF there is no outside intervention [i.e. natuaral dissaster, international attack]). I believe that a very possible scenario to consider may be that surrounding states that buy resources from us (say Idaho) are suddenly cut off from power/water or whatever. They go into social collapse first, and other states (like Washington) decide to envolk certain protocalls in order to maintain order before they end up like Idaho (this is just an example for arguement's sake).

Suddenly, all the state patrol LEOs are used for nothing more than body guards for the "higher ups" (Gov, Senators, ect.). The National Guard is deployed around major cities (Spokane, Seattle) and a cerfew is set. Certain liberties are suddenly suspended and people are asked to turn in their firearms voluntarily for food rations...you get the idea where this is headed.

Dissidents are slowly "weeded out". People with guns are soon sought after, especially those with a history of speaking out against the Government.


It's easier, than you think, to heard the populous like cattle...especially if you put things in place before something happens. I think the above scenario is a likely one considering most people turn on the TV to find out what they should be doing, wearing, or what they should be worried about.

 

[twoclones]

But just because you don't know how to rough it in the winter doesn't mean we don't.

 

[Siglvr]

Have you ever built a log cabin by hand?

First time? We built a great little one when I was in grade school. Had one of those 1970's fireplaces. We'd bug out all the time to the place Snug as little bugs in a rug.

For myself, I'm out in the woods about every weekend. Yet for an extended time, living, many here do have an unrealistic view of the thing. Yet the idea of "bugging out", should really be situationally dependent. If someone tells you a tidal wave will be sweeping over your house, ala Hurricane Katrina or like ocured in Hilo 40 some years ago, you want to grab and go. And be prepared so that you do have the things you should have . Like you, I have much more survival tools and food in my house than I could ever haul off, and I've be reluctant to leave any or all of it. Yet, in fact, if the SHTF was an earthquake, I suspect that the rubble filled streets would make me forced to stay home. I know all my neighbors, and they have some interesting and diverse skills, they'd be a great group to try and hang with together, mutually supportive, through an emergency.

 

[twoclones]

Have you ever built a fire in a cave? where does the smoke go? Does anyone else know about the cave? Are they friendly? Have you ever built a log cabin by hand?

This and other Riverrat... comments bring to mind a couple of quotes I like.

"Beware the naysayers."
and
"Naysayers rarely say nay."

 

[BroncoFan]

Then there's those of us who are already in the "UN Free" woods!
Grant County Oregon!

 

[gunfreak]

Richard Proenneke built a cabin in Idaho by himself in his "SIXTIES" so if you city boys don't think that you can hack it, well thats all I have. My bro-in-law and our families can live as Hank Jr describes in the best country song ever...

 

[treemanx]

Then there's those of us who are already in the "UN Free" woods!
Grant County Oregon!

Hey bud, I lived & worked in Wheeler Co. for many years and also worked in Grant Co. for a while, that is definitely a "UN Free" kinda area. I pity the group that tries to take control of that area, it won't be easy!

 

[treemanx]

Richard Proenneke built a cabin in Idaho by himself in his "SIXTIES" so if you city boys don't think that you can hack it, well thats all I have. My bro-in-law and our families can live as Hank Jr describes in the best country song ever...

I have watched those Proenneke vids before and read some about it, awesome story! Heres a link to get any curious started: YouTube - Alone in the Wilderness

 

[Quackerbacker]

While impossible to predict & plan for every event I think it's absolutely necessary to approach preparedness from the standpoint of a likely event. Without such a starting point, you plan for what is likely baseless figments of pop fiction and your over-active imagination.

Bugging out is a last resort. Period. Consider modern historical SHTF scenario's. WWII for certain populations e.g. the Chinese, Jewish, Ukranians (from both the Communists and fascists): These folks still had to make a living, feed & clothe their children etc. When their antagonists finally came for them in most cases they were lambs for the slaughter, tied to their homes for survival. In many (not all) of these cases, had they had the ability to bug out to a cabin or cave (100+ jews survived in a case in Ukraine for several years) for even a few months at a time, they might have lived.

Another scenario, perhaps more likely, perhaps not, is one like Argentina in 2001-present. They went from the 2nd richest nation on the continent to one of the poorest overnight. That happened incidentally because of massive debt, hiding the monetization of public debt, and continually "tweaking" the formula's for reporting the economic health to hide the truth (sound familiar?). Hyperinflation hit them like a tsunami. The end result was pretty much the entire nation's middle class becoming extremely poor, and the poor class becoming poverty stricken & living out of boxes & shacks. Starvation & epidemics definitely happened but the big killer was crime. It increased 10-fold almost overnight. Over half the population of Argentina were violently victimized in the months following the collapse. Crime Du Jour was take-over style burglaries that often ended in rape and murder, but kidnappings, street robberies, car jackings, even people posing as police or military conducting road blocks only to murder & rob. Heading for the hills in this scenario was fruitless. Not only are you more vulnerable to being overwhelmed by a group of thugs, but you limit your ability to continue to make a living and provide for your family.

There are just as many possibilities in which staying put becomes suicidal. The public, despite ample warning from the CDC is shockingly unaware of how close we came to collapse during the influenza pandemic. The CDC's job as much as anything else is to help maintain order and calm during these events, yet the verbiage on their website during the pandemic was unambiguous: If H5N1 Avian (50% + mortality) manages to mix with H1N1 Swine (90% + communicability) America shuts down. Period. Cities are an artificial construct completely dependent in all ways for survival from the outside. Within 72 hours every major American city would have bare shelves, spoiled water, no electricity, bottlenecks at every egress and people fighting for survival. The truckers that would heroically try to work during that time would be powerless to reach the cities due to bottleneck as much as to being hi-jacked for the contents of their trailers. Imagine Hurricane Katrina on a national scale, then consider how well the Feds are equipped to assist in securing the peace.

I could go on but haven't the time and doubt most of you are still reading this wall of text . Suffice it to say, our society is extremely fragile.
When you analyze the likelihood of a significant event, be it economic, pandemic, act of God, whatever happening in your lifetime there is no escaping the truth: If you have someone depending on you for survival (wife, children, elderly parents, etc) you have an obligation to those loved ones to do something besides throw up your hands and look to an inept, incompetent, and corrupt government to "save" you when the lights go out.

Start with baby steps, make a plan, and start to prepare to bug out or bug in, whatever the case may require. To do otherwise is to neglect your duty to those who depend on you.

 

[g.i. joe]

There is a lot to be said about the more right-minded Conservative nature of our armed forces (and perhaps police). But they are also (and this is a good thing) trained to accept orders and obey authority. In a slowly degrading, increasingly tyrannical order, the military/police would not be our ally. It would only be in an instantaneous, radical assumption of power from on high that would be enough to shake those Constitutionally-minded military men and woman into leaving their posts.

I don't even want to think about what it would take...

The 51% I mentioned earlier is a declining number from the past. As Loyalty to our Constitution is no longer taught, and the obedience to authority is pressed. I remember I had a class in Basic Training presented by a Chaplin on the difference between obeying an order vs. obeying a "lawful" order. I asked a high school friend (who happens to be an AF Chaplin) if they are still giving those classes and making that distinction. I couldn't get a strait answer from him.

 

[riverrat373]

While impossible to predict & plan for every event I think it’s absolutely necessary to approach preparedness from the standpoint of a likely event. Without such a starting point, you plan for what is likely baseless figments of pop fiction and your over-active imagination.

I could go on but haven’t the time and doubt most of you are still reading this wall of text . Suffice it to say, our society is extremely fragile.
When you analyze the likelihood of a significant event, be it economic, pandemic, act of God, whatever happening in your lifetime there is no escaping the truth: If you have someone depending on you for survival (wife, children, elderly parents, etc) you have an obligation to those loved ones to do something besides throw up your hands and look to an inept, incompetent, and corrupt government to “save” you when the lights go out.

Start with baby steps, make a plan, and start to prepare to bug out or bug in, whatever the case may require. To do otherwise is to neglect your duty to those who depend on you.

As I said in another reply to this post, all I'm trying to do here is provoke a conversation and some thought about bugging out. Heading for the hills may work for some people in some cases. The important thing, as Quackerbacker says, is to have a plan and be prepared!

 

[Martini_Up]

Meh, I'm heading to the foot-hills. I'll wave as you go by and pick up the stuff that you deem too heavy to carry up those hills and sell them back to you when you come back down.

 

[SleepynSeattle]

Assuming that ANY troops would not follow their orders and shoot your *** dead is a mistake. No offense to anyone, but it is not realistic to believe that in a military state, soldiers won't fire upon unarmed civie's. It's happened before, and it'll happen again. The police call each other a "brotherhood" for a reason. Soldiers kill to survive, or to protect that guy next to them who really IS like a brother. If the feds tell them to maintain peace, through firepower, and they view you as a threat......that's all there is to it. Like somebody already said, it won't begin as a simple "HEY....go out there and shoot some civilians now"! It will begin with security details to protect the REST of the populace. Then it'll graduate to "this" particular group of people who are a threat to everyone else......and degenerate along those lines, into chaos. It's scary bubblegum. But its history everywhere else.....and if you want to survive, you'd better be paying attention!!

 

[Sasquatchvnv]

I hate to break this to you, but all this "Homeland Security" crap has been built just for you. Not little brown people from some faraway land. You. Did you catch the homeland security hearings in congress the other day? Have you read the foul reports coming from the fed and SPLC to law enforcement that label vets, gun-owners and freedom loving americans as the greatest threat to national security?

If you don't see the boot coming down on your face - you are not paying attention. The (pick a word for traitorous criminals running the world) are doing their level best to pit "civilians" (used to be "citizens") against law enforcement. They are working full time to get a race war started. They are pushing us for a violent reaction to all their looting and pillaging of the wealth of the nation. Eagerly looking for the excuse to clamp down martial law and start the purges that will feed 85% of us to the meat grinder they have constructed with our tax money.

All I can think to do is wake people up enough to at least start asking some questions. I can only hope that an awake and questioning populace will put the kibosh on this slide into the abyss we seem to be locked into.

Can you seriously believe that gov, with all its resources, has been caught by surprise by the collapse of the economy? Can you believe that they are just stupid enough to do exactly the right things to make everything infinitely worse? Where are all our factories? (China - by design). Where did all your TARP money go? (Foriegn banks - WTF?!?!) Why won't the fed secure our borders and get a handle on immigration? (Cloward-Piven strategy - load the welfare system down until it breaks the economy - among other things). The people running this country HATE America, and are in the process of gutting this country.

Subversive - what does that mean? I define it as activity or groups working to subvert the constitution of our nation. Who fits the bill for that definition? Vets/Gun Owners/Patriots? Too ridiculous to believe - but that is their story. How about CFR/Trilateral commission/Bilderberg/UN? You can read their own documents and see that their stated goals are anathema to our way of life. They are not just planning and talking - they are actively tearing this country down to establish their "brave new world". You see the evidence all around you. These are absolutely ruthless, evil people you are dealing with. You are under attack through your food, water, and medical system. Your economy has been trashed, and you are being labeled and prosecuted as criminals at an increasing rate.

Governments are only really good at two things - stealing and killing people.

Man, I could go on and on and on. All I ask is that you look at the stories they feed you and at least ask some questions. The world is definitely not as it has been presented to you. I know it is more comfortable to relax and go along with the great lie, but all that is waiting for you at the end of that road is the destruction of all you hold dear, and an early hole in the ground for you and your families. If you won't wake up today and start asking questions about what is obvious all around you - what will it take?

 

[EZLivin]

Then there's those of us who are already in the "UN Free" woods!
Grant County Oregon!

Man I love it over there! Go there so often I really should find some property and build a little cabin (or RV site). Really p**ses me off that so many of the small towns over there aren't looking too prosperous these days (thanks to the moronic PDX and Eugene populations that call the shots in this state).

 

[Siglvr]

I hate to break this to you, but all this "Homeland Security" crap has been built just for you. Not little brown people from some faraway land. You. Did you catch the homeland security hearings in congress the other day? Have you read the foul reports coming from the fed and SPLC to law enforcement that label vets, gun-owners and freedom loving americans as the greatest threat to national security?

If you don't see the boot coming down on your face - you are not paying attention. The (pick a word for traitorous criminals running the world) are doing their level best to pit "civilians" (used to be "citizens") against law enforcement. They are working full time to get a race war started. They are pushing us for a violent reaction to all their looting and pillaging of the wealth of the nation. Eagerly looking for the excuse to clamp down martial law and start the purges that will feed 85% of us to the meat grinder they have constructed with our tax money.

All I can think to do is wake people up enough to at least start asking some questions. I can only hope that an awake and questioning populace will put the kibosh on this slide into the abyss we seem to be locked into.

Can you seriously believe that gov, with all its resources, has been caught by surprise by the collapse of the economy? Can you believe that they are just stupid enough to do exactly the right things to make everything infinitely worse? Where are all our factories? (China - by design). Where did all your TARP money go? (Foriegn banks - WTF?!?!) Why won't the fed secure our borders and get a handle on immigration? (Cloward-Piven strategy - load the welfare system down until it breaks the economy - among other things). The people running this country HATE America, and are in the process of gutting this country.

Subversive - what does that mean? I define it as activity or groups working to subvert the constitution of our nation. Who fits the bill for that definition? Vets/Gun Owners/Patriots? Too ridiculous to believe - but that is their story. How about CFR/Trilateral commission/Bilderberg/UN? You can read their own documents and see that their stated goals are anathema to our way of life. They are not just planning and talking - they are actively tearing this country down to establish their "brave new world". You see the evidence all around you. These are absolutely ruthless, evil people you are dealing with. You are under attack through your food, water, and medical system. Your economy has been trashed, and you are being labeled and prosecuted as criminals at an increasing rate.

Governments are only really good at two things - stealing and killing people.

Man, I could go on and on and on. All I ask is that you look at the stories they feed you and at least ask some questions. The world is definitely not as it has been presented to you. I know it is more comfortable to relax and go along with the great lie, but all that is waiting for you at the end of that road is the destruction of all you hold dear, and an early hole in the ground for you and your families. If you won't wake up today and start asking questions about what is obvious all around you - what will it take?

Whew! That's a pretty one sided and grim assessment there. Other than defense, Governments also make doing big and complex projects possible. Manhattan project, All the damns on the Columbia river, Space exploration etc etc.

 

[Sasquatchvnv]

Whew! That's a pretty one sided and grim assessment there. Other than defense, Governments also make doing big and complex projects possible. Manhattan project, All the damns on the Columbia river, Space exploration etc etc.

I'll give you some of that. Even if the overall direction is evil, some good has been accomplished along the way. There are quite a few examples of how things could and should be. (Manhattan project iffy - hard to say much good has come of that). Not sure you could call it one-sided, I don't feel like I take any side. Just call it as I see it. Grim - absolutely - but not through any choice I made. Just pay attention to what is really going on and only a few scenarios make any sense. A group of greedy control freaks at the top of the food chain with a plan for world domination goes a long way towards explaining most of what I see in daily life.