Have you thought about giving up your 1911 due to current events?

[Aero Denezol]

Lots of good points here.. If there's some kind of large mob running around it will take trigger discipline to safely fight your way out, no matter what you carry. For this reason having a knife is also important.

If we're talking about encounters at 10 feet (like Riot mentioned) I feel perfectly confident with my 1911. If it were a situation where I have to get accross a parking lot, or other wide open space, I can't imagine making 30 yard shots under pressure, not with any pistol.

 

[Blitzkrieg]

Having a knife and knowing how to use it effectively are different factors

 

[Riot]

Having a knife and knowing how to use it effectively are different factors

Even an untrained person with a knife can be devistating...trust me, I know.

 

[Hook686]

hmmmm you guys going to draw and start shooting folks entering en mass into the store you are in and start grabbing material objects ? How about if one of them looks you in the eye, moves towards you and says to give him your wallet ... Are you going to draw and shoot him ? The videos of a flash mob I've seen is they move pretty fast. In, grab, out ... when are you going to start shooting all those rounds you are carrying ?

 

[Blitzkrieg]

Even an untrained person with a knife can be devistating...trust me, I know.

Maybe, maybe not. Most people have no idea how to effectively use a blade. There are very effective knife techniques/skills that really make a difference. I know because I teach them. Please watch this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mk-EVLyIpts

 

[quesodilla]

It seems that most shoot outs are lots of rounds fired with few hits. if this is the case I want to have a few extra when its over just in case.

 

[Redcap]

It seems that most shoot outs are lots of rounds fired with few hits. if this is the case I want to have a few extra when its over just in case.

Try hitting what you aim at. Works out a lot better.

 

[Riot]

Maybe, maybe not. Most people have no idea how to effectively use a blade. There are very effective knife techniques/skills that really make a difference. I know because I teach them. Please watch this

Paul Vunak Knife Philosophy - YouTube

If you teach it then you know that even an untrained person can get lucky. Most knife defense is accepting the fact that YOU WILL GET CUT and driving through that mental block of not wanting to get cut to effectively defend against a knife attack.

 

[badclam]

hmmmm you guys going to draw and start shooting folks entering en mass into the store you are in and start grabbing material objects ? How about if one of them looks you in the eye, moves towards you and says to give him your wallet ... Are you going to draw and shoot him ? The videos of a flash mob I've seen is they move pretty fast. In, grab, out ... when are you going to start shooting all those rounds you are carrying ?

If anyone moves toward me and says "give me your wallet", he will be looking down the barrel of my gun. If he continues towards me, I will consider his intent to be harmful and he will get shot. As far as shooting people for taking material objects? Not going to shot people for taking other peoples stuff. Not my job.

 

[Blitzkrieg]

If you teach it then you know that even an untrained person can get lucky. Most knife defense is accepting the fact that YOU WILL GET CUT and driving through that mental block of not wanting to get cut to effectively defend against a knife attack.

I don't agree that you WILL get cut.. it all depends on who you are facing, what your skill levels and the circumstances are, and what kind of blade you have. IE if I have my 45 inch war sword and the other guy has a knife, he's probably in big trouble. And I would never depend on "luck" which is a great intangible. Also there is no guarantee that YOU will be facing a knife, you may simply use your knife against mass attack by unarmed assailants..

 

[Riot]

I don't agree that you WILL get cut.. it all depends on who you are facing, what your skill levels and the circumstances are, and what kind of blade you have. IE if I have my 45 inch war sword and the other guy has a knife, he's probably in big trouble. And I would never depend on "luck" which is a great intangible. Also there is no guarantee that YOU will be facing a knife, you may simply use your knife against mass attack by unarmed assailants..

Agreed...and in the case of the "mass attack" then I guess it would be safe to say that SOMEONE is going to get cut!

 

[mortre]

Nope, haven't found anything I can shoot as well as a 1911. And the one I carry the most right now is a 9mm.

As far as controllability, I have a full size all steel complete with rail and mag well that's a pussycat! But it only gets carried during jacket weather anymore.

Sent from my Xoom using Tapatalk 2

 

[Misterbill]

I ALWAYS carry a spare magazine. That means that AT THE LEAST I have 13 rounds available. If I can't do it in 13, I doubt that 30 would make much difference. (My usual number is 23 rounds in two mags)

I train to take down 2-3 opponents because that's the MOST I'm likely to face. That's 12 rounds if I miss 6, with one left over for good measure.

Shot placement is always king. I'll take your two rounds of .45 ACP to an arm or leg a lot quicker than I'll jump in front of two .380 to my thoracic cavity. But even ONE round of .45 ACP +p hollow-point to my thoracic? I'm likely to be done.

Train for multiple opponents. Train specifically for horizontal movement, because that's the hardest to re-aquire a sight picture and hit. I have students in every intermediate class I teach that underestimate how hard it is to move your gun side-to-side and still hit your target with accuracy.

But honestly a group? Unless they have training, chances are you take out the lead dog and the rest run like Hell. Sociopaths are not known for courage.

 

[Medic!]

Just how many bad guys do you think you can handle? 3? 4? 8? This is not Hollywood.

 

[Riot]

Just how many bad guys do you think you can handle? 3? 4? 8? This is not Hollywood.

Surprise, speed and violence of action...if you have those then you can win virtually any violent encounter. You ever hear of a man named Maurice Clemmons? Killed four Lakewood PD officers in a coffee shop by himself. Why did he succeed? Because he took advantage of the situation. If you keep your wits about you, take advantage of a tactical situation, and apply deadly force ruthlessly and effectively you will be successful in a violent encounter.

 

[gehrheart]

I have to agree... I have put the 1911 to the side (though still shoot them and love them as always) and have gone to a XD45 myself. I have one spare mag ready on me and two ready in the EDC bag.
with over 5k shot out of the XD with out a single problem, I know it works. That being said, my fist and only true love will always be the 1911.

 

[NSDQ]

I don't buy into the 1911 talk that 7+1 works in all situations. Ammo capacity is everything in the real world. The problem with civilian shooters is that they have no idea what it's like to be engaged by a prepared opponent. That whole gab gab gab that tactical situational awareness etc etc and your level of training will allow you to prevail. Have you ever heard of prepared assailants? You know how cheap level III body armor is these days? What about multiple targets engaging you? Just because you can hit 1000 rounds at a 25 yard target with 1 inch grouping doesn't mean that will translate into accuracy in a real world situation. It's about adjusting to fear and adrenaline and taking into account your breathing and hand movements. Sight picture is a whole different ball game when adrenaline and fear kick in. What about grip angle and body and arm stance? That all goes out the window.

It's simple math. Each bullet is another chance. It's a lottery. More tickets = more opportunities to prevail. This whole John Wayne BS that "if you can't do it with 7+1 than you can't do it with 17" is for dinosaurs. People that arm themselves to do harm to people with firearms come prepared. That means extra rounds.

 

[JGRuby]

If you have to deal with prepared assailants with armor then I would argue that is not what a pistol is designed for - you are talking offensive action if you have that kind of problem. I may be a dinosuar but I know what has worked and have no doubt it will work in the future unless I am going to war - the 1911 will be there but in a reserve roll to the main firearm I would be using. For the average person and in 99% of all situations I am likely to find in my civilian life the 1911 will do its job. I know this I wont trust a 9mm or 5.56 cartridge unless that is my last choice. In the situation you are talking about I will take a good 7.62 and a 45.

James Ruby

 

[Blitzkrieg]

If you teach it then you know that even an untrained person can get lucky. Most knife defense is accepting the fact that YOU WILL GET CUT and driving through that mental block of not wanting to get cut to effectively defend against a knife attack.

Lots of people have gotten out of a knife fight unscathed.. footwork and manuever. But if a few cuts will stop you mentally then you are not suited to attempt it. Also there's no assumption on my part that the attackers have a knife.. I would not hesitate to use a knife on multiple unarmed attackers. Guarantee they will hop and jump

 

[NSDQ]

Before I give up on this thread I have one last thing to say.... It's time to welcome to the next century and give up this archaic mentality that 6-8 rounds is the definitive capacity... I have never been in a firefight and said to myself "why did I bring guns with high capacity counts?" "DAMN I HAVE TOO MUCH AMMO IN THIS GUN. I'M RAMBO OVER HERE. HERE BATTLE BUDDY TAKE MY EXTRA AMMO I KILLED EVERYONE WITH 1 BULLET"