Have you ever seen such poor rifling?

[Sbarton]

the marlin micro groove rifling was not intended to shoot lead bullets...why you say.....because the micro groove rifling is very shallow so that when one shoots lead through it the lead has to be cast real hard and sized at least 1 thousand over the bore diameter other wise the barrel will lead like crazy because of stripping down the bore. the micro groove barrel has 12 lands and grooves and are very shallow. before you fire lap that barrel and make the lands and grooves even more shallow than they are, you should cast some bullets using linotype or other metals to give you a harder bullet and being that you said the bore is .431 your bullets should be sized to either .432 or .433. if they are too small or too soft then they will lead like crazy. the best stuff i found to removing lead is Kroil. you can either use it straight from the can or do a 50-50 mix with your bore cleaner HTH
Rick

They may be stripping based on the leading I'm seeing. I use kroil and chore boy copper mesh on a bore brush to get lead out. Best method I've found.

 

[Sbarton]

For kicks, I might just cast a few out of pure linotype just to see if it makes a difference. I normally don't cast anything from pure linotype, seems like a waste of "precious metal", but I'll sacrifice a few ounces in the name of science.

I'd like to try it! I appreciate the offer.
The worst that could happen is I'd have to scrape more lead out of the thing! I'm getting pretty used to doing that.

 

[Sbarton]

If you want some .4315" cast/powder-coated/gas-check 429244 bullets to try in it, I'd give you a handful. I've actually used up all I had made, but have been meaning to cast some more and it wouldn't take very long.

I took my Marlin out of the safe today and mounted a Leupold scope on it. It will probably be next Friday before I can get out there again. I've been trying to remember exactly where I landed for accuracy with it. I do remember a couple 2" 100 yard groups but I also remember consistently getting flyers that made the average group a lot worse. The frustrating part of that is that tight groups with flyers shows promise, with something in the works that's just not right.

This rifle makes me think of my dad, and remember when he bought it all those years ago. He's been gone for over a year now.

It's a coincidence that you mention your father. Though I'm sorry he's gone.
Mine is coming for a visit this week and I was looking forward to shooting this gun with him, I think he'll really get a kick out of it.

 

[dangerranger60]

Believe me, I'm not disagreeing with you. I've asked the same question before, back when I was trying to get mine to shoot well. I went through pretty much the same thing that the OP is going through, and asked all the same questions. I've read in several places that spec for .44 Mag rifle barrels in .431". I'm sure there must be some logical reason for it, but it doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

The answers I kept getting back then were:
1. Get bigger bullets, anywhere from .431" to .433"
2. Check for binding with the mag tube and forearm
3. Polish the bore

The roll-punch dents in mine are so bad that I never would have been able to polish them out. The only way to get rid of them would be to miniaturize myself and crawl in there with an angle grinder. I polished mine for a while, but I don't think I accomplished much. I didn't get really aggressive because I didn't want to do more harm than good.

I know there are some very accurate level-action rifles out there, but to be honest I've never shot one. There's so much going on with a lever gun, what with the magazine and forearm attached to the barrel, and the action itself being a bit "springy", that it's hard to get true precision out of one. Just my opinion. I've often heard of the mythical 1moa lever-gun, but they've always escaped me.

Mind you, I'm not doubting that they exist. There are a heck of a lot of folks out there who are far better shots and gunsmiths than I'll ever be, who can make guns do things that I can barely imagine. Just because I can't do something, doesn't mean I'm not impressed by those who can.

Added- this thread has inspired me to dig out the old Model 1894 and take it with me to the range the next time I go. It's been so long that I barely remember exactly how it shot when I was done tinkering with it. I also have some good 240gr XTP loads that I need to try in it.

Like you I have heard a lot of talk about the amazing accuracy of this or that lever gun. But I have not had many that can prove it! I'm pretty happy when mine make less than 2" groups. And I hang any less than 1 1/4" on my garage wall! [ it happens occasionally!] DR

 

[CLT65]

I fired up the melting pot after work today, emptied out the range scrap that was in it, and melted down half a pig of linotype. I'd almost forgot how nice linotype was to work with. It casts really nice. I guess I can see why people used to cast with it exclusively back in the day when it was cheap and plentiful.

With the cost of linotype nowadays I can't imagine casting with pure lino. At $3/lb, you're over a dime apiece just for alloy. Add a nickel apiece for gas checks, and you might as well buy some JHP bullets. So, I generally use range scrap for alloy, but I cast a few dozen of these today just for testing in the Marlin. The linotype is a lot harder and the bullets tend to drop slightly larger (and lighter of course) than my usual range scrap alloy. Due to this hardness, they size slightly larger through the sizer die. I have my die honed out to size my regular bullets to .4315", but these lino bullets measure .432" after sizing- actually an ideal size for my intended purpose.

Sbarton- if you want a handful of them for testing, send me a PM. I'll gladly give you a couple dozen if you want, if it works to meet up, or it would only cost a few dollars to mail them. I may end up over your way this next weekend as my wife wants to make a trip to Costco.

It looks like the weather should be good Friday and I have the day off; unless something else comes up, I think I'll test some out then.

 

[CLT65]

I got a chance to take mine out today. Here are a couple groups: 100 yards, 240gr cast/GC, magnum load H110. The first group was before I adjusted the scope. I had a couple other groups that were slightly larger, but I couldn't tell any difference between the .4315" hardened range scrap GC bullets, and the .432" linotype GC bullets.



Both measure just under 2.5" center to center.

The 240gr XTP loads shot into about 3.5". The next group went to pieces, so I checked and my scope had come loose! I shot a couple other groups and realized that a couple of the gun screw were loose. The scope was just an old one I had laying around. I think I'll put a different scope on it, and some blue Loctite on all the screws.

My results today were similar to what I remember from years ago when I went down this same road. It's pretty much a 3 moa rifle, maybe a little better if I tweak it just right.

 

[xtratoy]

Roll your own lapping bullets. Cast bullets rolled between a couple steel plates with valve grinding compound. VGC gets embedded into bullet. Shoot 2 or 3 then clean barrel, rinse and repeat until desired results are achieved.

 

[orygun]

I don't think it can be sleeved, it's pretty thin at the muzzle, but i may check around with some gunsmiths, see what they say.

My old 30 WCF is worn badly. I checked with Velzey about putting a liner in it. I was informed that bottle neck rifle rounds make too much pressure for a liner to bear.

 

[Certaindeaf]

My old 30 WCF is worn badly. I checked with Velzey about putting a liner in it. I was informed that bottle neck rifle rounds make too much pressure for a liner to bear.

Is it accurate? Maybe re crown it?

 

[orygun]

Is it accurate? Maybe re crown it?

It has almost no rifling for the last 1/2" of the barrel. It's accurate enough that I kilt a deer with it last year. The real option would be to shorten the barrel or buy a replacement, which I did check into. That's when I decided it would just life life the way it is.

 

[Sbarton]

I got a chance to take mine out today. Here are a couple groups: 100 yards, 240gr cast/GC, magnum load H110. The first group was before I adjusted the scope. I had a couple other groups that were slightly larger, but I couldn't tell any difference between the .4315" hardened range scrap GC bullets, and the .432" linotype GC bullets.

View attachment 1047560View attachment 1047561

Both measure just under 2.5" center to center.

The 240gr XTP loads shot into about 3.5". The next group went to pieces, so I checked and my scope had come loose! I shot a couple other groups and realized that a couple of the gun screw were loose. The scope was just an old one I had laying around. I think I'll put a different scope on it, and some blue Loctite on all the screws.

My results today were similar to what I remember from years ago when I went down this same road. It's pretty much a 3 moa rifle, maybe a little better if I tweak it just right.

Just saw this right now, I guess nw firearms stopped sending me notifications!
Thanks for the offer, I would like to try a larger bullet! I'll pm my address, just let me know what it runs for shipping and add a few bucks for the lead, I know what this stuff costs. I shoot 50, 545 grain bullets in a monthly match, that's about 13 bullets to the lb, it adds up!
But I don't think I'll try your bullets until I lap the barrel.
I have some fire lapping supplies coming from beartooth.

Well, that's a better group than I'm getting at 50y. I'd be happy enough with that, it'd plug a furry critter!

 

[Sbarton]

Roll your own lapping bullets. Cast bullets rolled between a couple steel plates with valve grinding compound. VGC gets embedded into bullet. Shoot 2 or 3 then clean barrel, rinse and repeat until desired results are achieved.

I would, but I don't have bullets the diameter of the grooves. I'd just be wearing down the tops.
I have some bullets coming from beartooth that should work.
After some online reading, I've concluded that fire lapping sounds like my best solution.

 

[dangerranger60]

If I were going to firelap a Micro groove barrel I would first hand lap out any tight spots but keep well back of the muzzle. and then firelap polish using the finest lapping compound available. Bon Ammi the scowering powder is about 1200 grit. its pretty fine as polishing powder goes. It won't cut much on each pass but also won't cause much barrel wear either. Good Luck DR

 

[Sbarton]

If I were going to firelap a Micro groove barrel I would first hand lap out any tight spots but keep well back of the muzzle. and then firelap polish using the finest lapping compound available. Bon Ammi the scowering powder is about 1200 grit. its pretty fine as polishing powder goes. It won't cut much on each pass but also won't cause much barrel wear either. Good Luck DR

That was my first inclination as well. And I may still try it, as it stands I couldn't make this thing shoot any worse.
But from what I've read, hand lapping can wallow out the areas where you change direction.
And what I have not read, but believe will happen, is once I've pulled the lap past the high spots the first time, the lap will deform and not hone the high spots on consecutive passes.
But this is pure conjecture, as I've never lapped a barrel before.

 

[Ura-Ki]

That was my first inclination as well. And I may still try it, as it stands I couldn't make this thing shoot any worse.
But from what I've read, hand lapping can wallow out the areas where you change direction.
And what I have not read, but believe will happen, is once I've pulled the lap past the high spots the first time, the lap will deform and not hone the high spots on consecutive passes.
But this is pure conjecture, as I've never lapped a barrel before.

Hand lapping compares to paddling a canoe in the waves, where fire lapping is like a flat bottom speed boat doing 80 across the tops of the waves, that's the best way to look at it!
If I were doing this on one of mine, I would fire lap it and then, Polish by hand!