Have a Plan; think out side the box

[Diamondback]

Or maybe it was something I heard from a long-deceased friend who was a LRRP in one of those "ops that never officially happened" on the wrong side of South Vietnam's borders--I usually have a pretty good memory for the media data comes in through, though, and I'm pretty sure that was text not vox.

 

[Andy54Hawken]

Having been on LRRP /LRSD teams I have heard of similar stories.
Andy

 

[11Charlie]

I had a buddy in the Army that was a LRRP! That guy was NUTS and would do anything.

 

[Andy54Hawken]

Well going in deep into enemy territory , checking things out , hiding for days or weeks at a time , no support other than the 3-5 other men with you and a radio , maybe doing some ambushing , etc ...
Can do that to you.
Andy

 

[Diamondback]

Well going in deep into enemy territory , checking things out , hiding for days or weeks at a time , no support other than the 3-5 other men with you and a radio , maybe doing some ambushing , etc ...
Can do that to you.
Andy

Different war, not a LRRP by name, but given that they were three days ahead of Patton's front line that may explain why Uncle Frank saw killing SS in general as "job" but popping their officers and senior noncoms as "hobby."

 

[Oathkeeper1775]

I dont pretend to have all or any of the answers; thanks for all the replies.

A dog; as part of a human-led attacking force, coming at you is not the primary threat, although the dog must be dealt-with. They do distract the defender; so timing would be critical..

Seems to me that having something like a Judge in .410 (buck shot) with a laser, would allow the defender to quickly dispatch the dog (s) while preserving primary ammo and weaponry. Waiting until the dog is at close range may allow the defender to dispatch it without exposing themselves to attacker's observation or fire.

Edit: The Tunnel Rats in Nam liked the revolvers....so I was told by a Nam vet.

If that passes the logic test, a Judge may something to keep or add.

 

[Diamondback]

Some dogs don't go down easy... pitbulls, for example, are part of why some North Carolina LEOs switched from 9mm to .357 SIG.

 

[AMT]

I see too many "what if's". How many firearms are you going to carry with you "just in case" of a certain predicament? Dogs, people, groups of people, sharks, bear, sasquatch, etc....

I was talking with a friend of mine. When hiking in the woods, or just out camping in the woods, do you change your carry ammo? Do you still carry hollow points - or "self defense" rounds? Is that really a good idea? If you happen upon a "big cat" what do you think that ammo is going to do? Cats have pretty tough hides. What is a hollow point going to do on impact with that tough hide?

Take into consideration what this topic has turned into. Some dogs have pretty tough hides too, not counting the thickness of the hair before the hide.

For the LEO's in N.C. did switching from 9mm to 357sig really solve the underlying issue? (Penetration?) Sure it did, just from carrying a round that moves significantly faster than your 9mm LEO ammo. Hollow points, +P+, et al 9mm, the 357sig is a moving round and is going to penetrate more than a 9mm round.

I'm going to continue to carry "self defense" rounds and FMJ - alternating in the magazine.

As for a dog attack, by the time they hit your arm you'd better have your weapon drawn and have it in your sights. The second it grabs your arm it should get at least 2 shots in the under belly (or chest area).

If the dog was sent by someone, then you have bigger problems because that person probably already has you in their sights and the dog is a distraction. My guess is you won't be able to avoid both the dog and the person.

Just my $0.02.

Stay safe a vigilant of your surroundings.

 

[mjbskwim]

My friend fought some MMA matches. Then we talked about guard dogs.
140 would be big
I asked what he would do if a 145# guy came after him
He explained what he would do. Why wouldn't you do that with a dog?
If you expect a dog attack ,just be ready.
If your ,more likely 100# dog come after me he goes airborne.
Preferably lands on something narrow,breaking his back.
If you get past the fear of being bit,a dog is much easier to subdue than a human.
And I would carry a 6" or better knife to insert into the dogs neck
You are more mechanically inclined than a dog. He jumps you spin him. Maybe end over end. Take the bite ...on your covered arm...and wrap him up with your legs. Twist him up and end up on top.
You are now his alpha
Think of the weight you have to deal with not the teeth
Take away the back legs or the mouth (fist down the throat) and it's helpless
@Joe13 ,a little BJJ on the dog?

 

[Joe13]

My friend fought some MMA matches. Then we talked about guard dogs.
140 would be big
I asked what he would do if a 145# guy came after him
He explained what he would do. Why wouldn't you do that with a dog?
If you expect a dog attack ,just be ready.
If your ,more likely 100# dog come after me he goes airborne.
Preferably lands on something narrow,breaking his back.
If you get past the fear of being bit,a dog is much easier to subdue than a human.
And I would carry a 6" or better knife to insert into the dogs neck
You are more mechanically inclined than a dog. He jumps you spin him. Maybe end over end. Take the bite ...on your covered arm...and wrap him up with your legs. Twist him up and end up on top.
You are now his alpha
Think of the weight you have to deal with not the teeth
Take away the back legs or the mouth (fist down the throat) and it's helpless
@Joe13 ,a little BJJ on the dog?

That's what I was taught, knee to the belly, reach down the throats and grab some insides

 

[WWShooter]

All very interesting, but if some bad guy wanted to use dogs in a post-SHTF environment - and they knew what they were doing - they'd use more than one dog.

Anyone with reasonable strength and fitness can probably survive (not without injuries) an attack by a single dog; put a second dog into the equation and all bets are off. While you're doing whatever you can with the first dog, the second is taking out an arm, leg or throat.

Me, I'd go with a 9mm pistol with 18+ rounds and fire early and often, and I'd also "arm" up with my own dog pack.

 

[Oathkeeper1775]

Watching videos of multiple dogs attacking; they all appear to be in an off-set trailing formation. One dog is always faster, following dogs are behind and to the left or right of the dog in front.

One thing for sure in a PROL situation, not expecting it and not having a plan for it is an error.

 

[Diamondback]

What's the usual in pack-dynamics if the leader goes down?

 

[Joe13]

What's the usual in pack-dynamics if the leader goes down?

I believe they scatter and a new alpha steps in, in the wild.

Back when the Romans used dogs for war I honestly don't know other then probably keep attacking as the handler is the Alpha.

 

[Stomper]

Watching videos of multiple dogs attacking; they all appear to be in an off-set trailing formation. One dog is always faster, following dogs are behind and to the left or right of the dog in front.

One thing for sure in a PROL situation, not expecting it and not having a plan for it is an error.

It's called an echelon-left/right formation, they do that because of their heightened sense of smell. Would YOU want to smell the bung of the mutt in front of you with x10K super-smell?

 

[Diamondback]

I'm just glad I don't have to experience my own farts via tyrannosaur Bloodhound From Hell super-smell x10-million like poor Junior...

 

[mjbskwim]

If someone releases multiple dogs on you, you shoot him first then his dogs.
My buddy was a Reno cop. Shot a dog with a 357 and it went down the road and started a fight with another dog.
Just sayin

 

[Camelfilter]

I read this and wonder how many of you have been attacked by a vicious dog? Sorry if I'm not "thinking outside the box" here....

I have had multiple encounters with both ferrile & domestics. Including a very large pack of ferrile Tibetan Mastiffs (easily 30+ dogs).

Haven't been bit yet, and really really wish I were armed with a firearm during the ferrile encounters.

The "oddest" ferrile encounter was a pack I saw in Turkey just S of the Bulgarian border while stopped for a snack break. That pack was a mix of all breeds, including many lap sized dogs. I saw the small dogs first, then the big ones, then I just got back on my bike went on my way very quickly.

With a pack, locate the alpha & deal with it.

 

[Blindranger]

I read this and wonder how many of you have been attacked by a vicious dog? Sorry if I'm not "thinking outside the box" here....

Back in the late 90's I had an encounter on Mount Baker. A friend and I were out exploring Seattle and then found a remote place to boondock on the flank of Mt Baker. It was stupid late at night when we finally found a place to camp. We had finished setting up the tent when we heard dogs in the distance. We barely had enough time to get into the car before a pack of 10 or so dogs came tearing through our camp. They tore up all of our gear looking for food and were acting Nasty AF. We ended up driving 20 minutes down the road and slept in the car. Honestly it was the scariest thing that has ever happened to me in the woods.

 

[Certaindeaf]

Back in the late 90's I had an encounter on Mount Baker. A friend and I were out exploring Seattle and then found a remote place to boondock on the flank of Mt Baker. It was stupid late at night when we finally found a place to camp. We had finished setting up the tent when we heard dogs in the distance. We barely had enough time to get into the car before a pack of 10 or so dogs came tearing through our camp. They tore up all of our gear looking for food and were acting Nasty AF. We ended up driving 20 minutes down the road and slept in the car. Honestly it was the scariest thing that has ever happened to me in the woods.

Jebus, didn't you have a gun?
I bet you do now!