Hate to see this

[Ura-Ki]

Actually, No_Regerts ain't White, and I bet he has seen far more true racism then most here!

As far as the rest, ask your self this, getting kicked by every bully with an Adgenda tends to make folks highly narrow focused, and that focus is always toward the ones doing the kicking, so, why would any one expect any of us here to react any other way but suspect?

Yes, this is a highly charged subject, one that tends to be quite divisive, and yet, folks have made great effort to remain civil with each other whilst discussing this topic! Painting One group with a broad brush isn't fair or just, but when you have one group who have done more harm to themselves and called it racist and pointed at every body else and claimed it was their fault instead of looking in the mirror, that's a problem, and it's going to take more then nice feelings and happy thoughts to actually effect a meaningful change!

 

[CLT65]

On this forum, I have seen posts from a few people who felt that they had to preface their question with, "I'm not trying to start anything. I'm asking for real."
Here we are, a group of gun owners/collectors/enthusiasts who support the 2nd Amendment making people feel that they have to make excuses for asking a question that might be seen as traitorous or leftist by their fellow gun owners.

This is my last post on this subject. Block me. Delete my account. Doing so will only prove my point.
I have never been one to stir up bubblegum, but nothing will change unless we speak up and question the status quo. And I'm not saying that it's okay to proselytize and shove my opinions down anyone's throat, or speak poorly of our law enforcement and military who put their lives on the line. My purpose for speaking up was an attempt to correct some statements that were just plain untrue.
-

"Marxist part: Taking from others or redistribution of wealth. Instead of class as being the exploited, its their race."

So you're denying that Black people have never really been "free"?
How many times a week are you stopped for absolutely no reason at all?
Are you Black? I apologize for my assumptions if you are, and are indeed speaking from personal experience.
-

"Black Separatist: Equality and social justice for black people, not all people. Not even all people of color. Guess who is/will also be paying for slavery, the Hispanics and Asians, and whoever doesn't qualify as "African-American"."

Again, are you Black, Asian, or Hispanic?
What qualifications do you have that gives you an okay to not only tell people what they are experiencing, but also that their ultimate plan is to take away your freedoms?
As an Asian and White person, I could be rightly offended by your accusations of what you perceive as my evil plan.
-

"Racist: The assertion that being white makes someone racist. Their brand of "racism" is essentially a lack of accountability of their own issues and blaming it on who they say are the real racists."

Perhaps this is your own feelings that are hurt because you know you can work on yourself. Even I, having both Asian and White blood, can stand to improve what has been ingrained in me simply because of this country's systemic racism. I am more privileged than quite a lot of Black and Brown people. I can admit that. Am I racist? Subconsciously, I am. But I am consciously trying to improve and change and become a better person.
-

"Taken directly from their site:

"Black Lives Matter began as a call to action in response to state-sanctioned violence and anti-Black racism. Our intention from the very beginning was to connect Black people from all over the world who have a shared desire for justice to act together in their communities. The impetus for that commitment was, and still is, the rampant and deliberate violence inflicted on us by the state."

That is about as black separatist as it gets. It has nothing to do with justice or stopping racism as a whole, just against black people. It serves to isolate blackness.

Remember, some of the reasons and parties involved in what BLM sites as the reason for their being, weren't white."

Please clarify how protesting the imprisonment, murder, horrible comments and more is being separatist.
Yes, there are other groups of people who are still being discriminated against (lately, Asians, and more often, Asian women, who are spat on, hit, shoved, had their mask torn off, etc.), but I have not heard of any wide-spread and condoned lynchings and heinous crimes against other groups as a whole.
There is a difference in how the U.S. has consistantly treated Black people as compared to any other group.

If you are a radical progressive, then I'm sure all of the BLM demands will seem completely reasonable. If you're able to even try to see things from another perspective, it's clear that their demands are everything the radical left has been wanting for generations. It demands complete acquiescence to the extreme progressives. When you're an extremist, extremism seems reasonable.

There are plenty of us on the other side that truly abhor racism and would love to see positive change in this country, but demanding complete surrender to a radical ideology is simply not effective at anything besides stirring up hate and strife. Meaningful societal change does not happen that way. You have to change hearts and minds, not shove an agenda down someone's throat.

Reactionaries will resist everything you do, but there are plenty of reasonable people who will support meaningful reform, whose real-world goals could align with yours to some degree, so long as an angry, self-righteous, radical agenda isn't being forced on them. There is room for compromise, as long as you are open to at least trying to understand another perspective.

I think the big con here has been to convince so many self-righteous left-minded people that this is all about race, and that anyone who's not out there marching with them MUST be a racist. That's simply not true.

 

[No_Regerts]

On this forum, I have seen posts from a few people who felt that they had to preface their question with, "I'm not trying to start anything. I'm asking for real."
Here we are, a group of gun owners/collectors/enthusiasts who support the 2nd Amendment making people feel that they have to make excuses for asking a question that might be seen as traitorous or leftist by their fellow gun owners.

This is my last post on this subject. Block me. Delete my account. Doing so will only prove my point.
I have never been one to stir up bubblegum, but nothing will change unless we speak up and question the status quo. And I'm not saying that it's okay to proselytize and shove my opinions down anyone's throat, or speak poorly of our law enforcement and military who put their lives on the line. My purpose for speaking up was an attempt to correct some statements that were just plain untrue.
-

"Marxist part: Taking from others or redistribution of wealth. Instead of class as being the exploited, its their race."

So you're denying that Black people have never really been "free"?
How many times a week are you stopped for absolutely no reason at all?
Are you Black? I apologize for my assumptions if you are, and are indeed speaking from personal experience.
-

"Black Separatist: Equality and social justice for black people, not all people. Not even all people of color. Guess who is/will also be paying for slavery, the Hispanics and Asians, and whoever doesn't qualify as "African-American"."

Again, are you Black, Asian, or Hispanic?
What qualifications do you have that gives you an okay to not only tell people what they are experiencing, but also that their ultimate plan is to take away your freedoms?
As an Asian and White person, I could be rightly offended by your accusations of what you perceive as my evil plan.
-

"Racist: The assertion that being white makes someone racist. Their brand of "racism" is essentially a lack of accountability of their own issues and blaming it on who they say are the real racists."

Perhaps this is your own feelings that are hurt because you know you can work on yourself. Even I, having both Asian and White blood, can stand to improve what has been ingrained in me simply because of this country's systemic racism. I am more privileged than quite a lot of Black and Brown people. I can admit that. Am I racist? Subconsciously, I am. But I am consciously trying to improve and change and become a better person.
-

"Taken directly from their site:

"Black Lives Matter began as a call to action in response to state-sanctioned violence and anti-Black racism. Our intention from the very beginning was to connect Black people from all over the world who have a shared desire for justice to act together in their communities. The impetus for that commitment was, and still is, the rampant and deliberate violence inflicted on us by the state."

That is about as black separatist as it gets. It has nothing to do with justice or stopping racism as a whole, just against black people. It serves to isolate blackness.

Remember, some of the reasons and parties involved in what BLM sites as the reason for their being, weren't white."

Please clarify how protesting the imprisonment, murder, horrible comments and more is being separatist.
Yes, there are other groups of people who are still being discriminated against (lately, Asians, and more often, Asian women, who are spat on, hit, shoved, had their mask torn off, etc.), but I have not heard of any wide-spread and condoned lynchings and heinous crimes against other groups as a whole.
There is a difference in how the U.S. has consistantly treated Black people as compared to any other group.

Look, I don't fault you for having strong feelings about bad things happening to people. If I didn't hate seeing people victimized, I'd never have gone into law enforcement.

No one is saying that certain groups didn't take it in the shorts. I'd implore anyone to identify a place where there are humans where someone doesn't get the short end of the stick.

But let me ask you a few questions and answer me honestly. Do we, as a society, need to have a conversation regarding race relations? Are conversations not a 2-way street where the best results come from listening to constructive feedback and demonstrating a certain amount of introspect?

If that is so, then groups need to think about how their actions may result in unwanted consequences. Blacks aren't answering questions or listening to feedback. They need to fix 85% of black children born out of wedlock (using term loosely, lets settle for 2 involved parents). They need to fix the 47% of murders in this country while they only make up 16% of the population. They need to fix the other crimes and substance issues that are being committed at a disproportionate level.

That sounds harsh, but think of it this way. Hispanics make up a larger percent of the US population and basically have 2 federal agencies focusing the majority of their effort on them (ICE, USBP). Why don't they have numbers like the blacks in regards to crimes and shootings by police or murders? Maybe more intact families? Many are ESL and manage to follow the rules.

Being Asian is a reason to lose admission points in college. Too many Asian kids going to college they say. Crime rates are a fraction of what other groups exhibit of the same socioeconomic status. Even more instances of success despite ESL barriers. And Asians were interned in the 40s! No need for reparations, just get out of their way!

Should a group not take a look in the mirror and wonder how Asians, East Indians, and Hispanics have succeeded despite language barriers and everything else mentioned, manage to succeed vs groups that have been here since the 1600s and have spoken English just as long?

Until to conversation is 2-way and people start taking way more ownership of their current status, groups like BLM are asking for things for free with no guarantee that it will bear fruit. Want to defund police by 50%. Reduce crime by 50% first.

Defund police for community assistance and programs? As the pendulum swings right and left and states go from heavy funding to non-existent funding of social programs, what doesn't change? Recidivism rates. They are correlated to economy, not dollars spent on freebies or treatment. Substance abuse treatment is one of the least effective programs of all time and most enter treatment by being arrested and ordered by a judge.

Since 1990, line of duty deaths were down 40%. Most are now car accidents. Violent crime was way down. The poverty line in the US is richer than 80% of the rest of the world. Was that not a good thing?

Yes, some people have been tragically murdered for no reason and some of that at the hands of LE. I, for one, am totally supportive of prosecuting any murderer. But tragedies and statistical outliers are no reason to burn your city to the ground.

 

[sobo]

And Asians were interned in the 40s! No need for reparations, just get out of their way!

people start taking way more ownership of their current status, groups like BLM are asking for things for free with no guarantee that it will bear fruit.

But tragedies and statistical outliers are no reason to burn your city to the ground.

This is pure brilliance, right here.

 

[coop44]

Welcome to the club! My father was looking down from the ball turret of a B-17 in 44, so I agree with you whole-heartedly. He left this world in 2000 and was sick of it then. He'd be rallying the troops to get the plane back in the air if he was still around to see what's happening now.

So was mine, couldn't squeeze into the ball turret though. They did what needed to be done.

 

[Ura-Ki]

I looked on the BLM website and read their "What WE Believe" manifesto. I saw no language that implied or averred support for Marxism or black separatism and I would be hard put to spin anything in their stated beliefs as racist.

From a June 16th 2020 article in the Statesman:
In a since-deleted June 11 Facebook post, Ryan Fournier, co-founder of Students for Trump, claimed that donations to Black Lives Matter were actually being funneled to Democratic campaigns.

"All money donated to Black Lives Matter goes directly to ActBlue, a Democrat Super PAC that then feeds the money to Democrat candidates," he said. "Congratulations, you played yourself."

The post was flagged as part of Facebook's efforts to combat false news and misinformation on its News Feed. Fournier deleted the post after we reached out to him, but the Twitter version remained posted.

Well sir, have a looksee at this here page, right at the top, it says who runs the donations and who is who, and if you go to THAT outfits page, from the donations center, you find they are in fact one and the same, the DNC Party!

Black Lives Matter: Support the movement

Our movement is dedicated to ending state-sanctioned violence, liberating Black people, and ending white supremacy forever. Join us in supporting the movement today!

secure.actblue.com

And here's a tasty little tidbit from Wilk!

ActBlue - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

And lastly, from the Huffington Post, ( that bastion of truth and fair unbiased reporting) a "Mission statement" of ActBlue!

Launched in 2004, ActBlue is an on-line fundraising platform that seeks to put the power back in the hands of the people, while countering the affect of big money on our democracy. The average American doesn't have the funds to contribute millions, or even hundreds of dollars to support a candidate for election. And the average American has no chance of running for, and being elected to a government office, due to his/or her lack of financial resources. This leaves the majority of Americans without a voice in government. But ActBlue hopes to change that with just the click of a mouse and a credit card. By collecting mostly small-dollar donations — $200 or less — ActBlue facilitates individual donors pooling their money to finance Democratic candidates. Individuals can donate through the website (actblue.com), to almost any candidate of their choice. Utilizing the Net's egalitarian and collaborative essence, ActBlue hopes to give Americans of every Democratic stripe a chance to get in the game.

 

[Ura-Ki]

Basically, BLM is the militant arm of the DNC, bought and paid for by the mindless sheeple too stupid to see the wolves circling the flock, blissfully ignorant to the dangers of supporting such an org, Blindly, even standing shoulder to shoulder with those jackarses and helping promote their brand of sh!t!

 

[JohnnyMac]

OK, I've spoken my mind- I refuse to wear a mask

Karen will be speaking to the manager about this.

 

[sobo]

She's already waiting in the lobby...
She looks impatient. But aren't they always?

 

[Ura-Ki]

 

[Ura-Ki]

 

[JohnnyMac]

The Conservative Brothers are funny. I check for their new stuff every day.

 

[DunRanull]

I looked on the BLM website and read their "What WE Believe" manifesto. I saw no language that implied or averred support for Marxism or black separatism and I would be hard put to spin anything in their stated beliefs as racist.

From a June 16th 2020 article in the Statesman:
In a since-deleted June 11 Facebook post, Ryan Fournier, co-founder of Students for Trump, claimed that donations to Black Lives Matter were actually being funneled to Democratic campaigns.

"All money donated to Black Lives Matter goes directly to ActBlue, a Democrat Super PAC that then feeds the money to Democrat candidates," he said. "Congratulations, you played yourself."

The post was flagged as part of Facebook's efforts to combat false news and misinformation on its News Feed. Fournier deleted the post after we reached out to him, but the Twitter version remained posted.

Farcebook is famous for deleting conservative and pro-Republican posts. This I know personally from recent experience.

 

[Tom Louis]

Black Lives Matter: Support the movement

Our movement is dedicated to ending state-sanctioned violence, liberating Black people, and ending white supremacy forever. Join us in supporting the movement today!

secure.actblue.com

This is a solicitation for donations to BLM not ActBlue. The funds are not funneled through BLM to ActBlue they are in the sole control of BLM. If I support a candidate or cause with a contribution through ActBlue they ask if I wish to make a 10%, 15%, 20% tip or no tip at all, that is how they garner funds.
And yes ActBlue supports Democratic Party and left wing causes, otherwise they would likely be called ActRed.

 

[Joe13]

Good lawd my ignore list is getting long....

@No_Regerts won the internet

 

[Ura-Ki]

This is a solicitation for donations to BLM not ActBlue. The funds are not funneled through BLM to ActBlue they are in the sole control of BLM. If I support a candidate or cause with a contribution through ActBlue they ask if I wish to make a 10%, 15%, 20% tip or no tip at all, that is how they garner funds.
And yes ActBlue supports Democratic Party and left wing causes, otherwise they would likely be called ActRed.

Nice try, Go right back to the BLM donations Page, and it says right there at the top, that ActBlue IS the managing resource handling ALL DONATIONS to BLM, and where do you think those donations are going, YUP, right to the DNC? I handed you everything you needed to know, it's all up to you to make of it what you will!

 

[sobo]

Good lawd my ignore list is getting long....

@No_Regerts won the internet

Dunno, man... @Ura-Ki is making a strong move on the inside in the final turn...

 

[Ura-Ki]

Nope, not even close, on my best day, No_Regerts could walk all over me like I was nothing!

 

[No_Regerts]

Nope, not even close, on my best day, No_Regerts could walk all over me like I was nothing!

Nah, you got all them !!!!! thingies.

 

[sobo]

Me, too!

I've only put one (1!) person on ignore on this site. The guy that could only tune to a "single frequency." I don't see him around anymore...
Thing was, I had to keep taking him off ignore cuz I just *had* to see what he was saying that was driving so many other people up the wall!