Hate to see this

[cookie]

We seem to have lost the ability to discern the truth from lies, good from evil. Right from wrong.

 

[cookie]

Once the sheeple see what like is without LEOs, the pendulum will swing the other way. The sad thing is that there will be a lot of innocents victimized before it does, but it will. My pipe dream would be to allow lethal force when defending your property, which would end the rioting right away, but dreams seldom come true, eh?

We will get a federal gestapo.

 

[Medic!]

My Dr. told me more fiber is good.

 

[98sporty]

My Dr. told me more fiber is good.

...sure worked for me this morning!

 

[Hueco]

Is it me, or did you just "other" the schit out the members of this forum?

It's just you.

My ignore list is populated by anyone who has consistently posted ad hom's in light of actual arguments. You can take that as evidence of her point.

What's your evidence that she"othered" many people here? Specific sentences and your interpretation, please.

 

[homeuser6]

ha ha , snowflakes on a gun forum. pardon my emotions, i think i'm going to cry.

 

[turbo_vanner]

LE retired in early 2000's after 34yrs. we are losing the battle, or maybe we've lost it. political correctness/ the socialist agenda, has tipped the pendulum. the majority has remained silent and have let the subversives call the plays. police chiefs, sheriffs, mayors, governors, have folded for for the almighty dollar and/or political gain. We now have a new generation (or several) that will not be dependable, when called upon, for the inevitable global conflict that will occur. my pop was in Germany in 1944, 3rd armor division. i cry for what he sees now.

Honest question, in 34 years as an LEO, did you see or work with folks who were bad cops? If so, did you do anything about it?

 

[CLT65]

I do have Black family members and a long list of men who served in nearly every branch of the military. Three generations of men who support what BLM is trying to accomplish. (Or did support other, similar fights against social injustices before they passed.)
Liberty and Justice For All. Not just for a certain portion of society that thinks everything is hunky dory because nothing bad is happening to them.

What you may be missing is the fact that many of "us" on the "right" truly are concerned with justice and racial equality, and would genuinely love to be able to support "black lives matter". The problem comes when we look at the written, stated goals of BLM as an organization, and we realize that they are actually extremist, racist, and Marxist in nature, calling for black separatism and Marxism. I just don't see that as being helpful to anyone, black, white, or any shade in between. As much as I support equality and justice (and I do), how can I be expected to support their radical goals? How is it fair that I'm called racist, when it's their radical ideology I reject, not race?

If they were more moderate and realistic in their stated goals, you would find strong support for them among conservatives. The problem as I see it is that their goals are very one-sided, appealing to the radical left, leading me to think it's not really about race, but rather ideology. Many of the people in the streets are sincere in what they're trying to accomplish, but I have sincere doubts about the money and power behind them.

The thing with politics and ideology is that we all have our own beliefs, and we all think we are right. If you only listen to voices that reinforce your beliefs, you will be hardened in your views. If you listen to voices that challenge your views, then you will have better understanding of others. You don't have to agree with your ideological opponent in order to understand where they're coming from, but you're likely to hate them less if you can see their perspective. Yes, many on the right are close-minded in that regard, but I see tremendous, nearly universal close-mindedness among the left nowadays as well. Everyone is polarized, ready for a fight. Scary times.

 

[Rkangel]

The problem is the LEFT and the RIGHT! Not everything is black or white! We need to live in the gray! If you blindly follow your political party and refuse to educate yourself on ANY issue you are contributing to the problem.

In politics Left and Right are two sides to the same corrupt coin.

However, some would also argue that gray has gotten us into the situation we are in today. Some say that without a foundation of Truth (capital T), gray is a shifting moral compass that points different directions depending on the whims of the individual; it is a house built on shifting sand; political correctness that defines all; situational ethics that apply to one person but not the other; rules that can be bent to justify the actions of the bender; my "truth" (lower case t) is better than your "truth" and whomever yells the loudest is the winner.

But, that's just what some say.

 

[No_Regerts]

The world is changing.
Strong, advanced societies throughout history have had a long run and then disappeared.
If our society does not change and adapt, we will simply fade away and no one will remember.
But if we try to change and fix things that aren't quite right, we will go down in history as an example of a truly enlightened society.

I've noticed that if we don't experience something ourselves, there is a tendency to "other" people who do experience these things that we can't begin to understand. I don't believe our forefathers wanted us to continue to regress, never learning from our mistakes.

A lot of you guys have put down women and people of color, saying they're making all this stuff up just to get attention, or are violent criminals, or they asked for it.
How do you know this? Have you transported yourself into another body for a time and actually experienced that all of this is "made up"?
I cannot say that I know what a Black person goes through on a daily basis because I am not Black.
I can however, say that I know what it feels like to be a woman in the United States, because I am a woman. So I can speak to these opinions from my own experience.

I do have Black family members and a long list of men who served in nearly every branch of the military. Three generations of men who support what BLM is trying to accomplish. (Or did support other, similar fights against social injustices before they passed.)
Liberty and Justice For All. Not just for a certain portion of society that thinks everything is hunky dory because nothing bad is happening to them.
"Well, those lazy s.o.b. (yet another derogatory phrase) need to get off their asses, get a job, and stop living off tax payer money."
That's all fine and dandy if you truly know those people and know for a solid fact that they're abusing the system. But you don't. I don't.
Of course there will always be those who take advantage and abuse what was designed to be a safety net. But once I start putting everyone into a group, and then put that group into whatever societal position that I feel they should be in, I am now the problem.

I'm not trying to point fingers or start an argument. I'm saying that I see things a lot differently from you guys.
I am saying that I do not in any way condone the vandalism and graffiti in the least bit. Those who are doing these things are criminals who should be brought in.
I know, as a fact and in experience, that the actual protestors are doing so peacefully and without antagonizing law enforcement. Moms. Gramas. Vets. Respectfully exercising their 1st Amendment rights. And then the military are sent in. If I show up in full battle gear, aim at your head when you are not being aggressive towards me, and then I proceed to taze/rubber bullet (that's a play on description)/pepper spray/flash bang/tear gas you, who do you think is going to look bad?
If you still say it's the "violent" granny who had to be beaten down with a bully stick, and tackled by four officers, I don't see how you can call yourself a proud American.

The entire civilized world is facing the same social upheaval that we are, and no one has developed a sure-fire way to get beyond all of this. But some countries/cities/states have indeed made significant progress in helping their people be happier and more content by fixing what is wrong with their judicial systems and leading the way for societal change. For everyone.
It's the opposite of what the U.S. is doing. We aren't listening to people at all.

I will not go into what I have been through. It has nothing to do with what people need to know to make positive change.
Making change happen is terrifying. Look at what our ancestors went through to free themselves from an over-reaching monarchy or a sadistic dictator. Those were no walks in the park. Those people, men and women, were fighting for their lives, their children's lives. They were scared, but they continued to fight. Isn't this what we're proud of? My uncles, both grampas, nephews, all said they served because it was the right thing to do. My grampa, who was serving with the Army on Oahu, was taken into police custody and interrogated the day after Pearl Harbor was bombed because they thought he was Japanese. He served to fight to keep our country free. Those of my family who served their country (including those who are still serving) are appalled by the the actions of the police and that the military was sent in like the place was a war zone.

We need to stop othering. Stop putting all people of whatever group you don't like into the same basket with the comparatively few who are downright criminals.
We need to be honest with ourselves and try to remain humble. We need to try to be as informed by unbiased sources as we can find.
There's always more to learn. I will be learning until the day I die.

P.S. - I have found lately that the only unbiased sources are those who have nothing to gain from telling biased stories. Those of you who have traveled extensively know that other countries don't always sugar-coat or tame their news. They tell it in all it's bloody and hideous gore while the U.S. is leaving entire stories out. I don't trust our media at all. None of it. The media has been bought and is owned by the 1%, and they won't be giving up that kind of power anytime soon.

P.P.S. - I know I can't write coherently and most of it is unorganized. It's why I rarely post on this forum. But I felt that you all are, like me, proud to be an American and want to have a country that is fair, just, and free.

It's just you.

My ignore list is populated by anyone who has consistently posted ad hom's in light of actual arguments. You can take that as evidence of her point.

What's your evidence that she"othered" many people here? Specific sentences and your interpretation, please.

There you go. Pretty much speak for themselves.

 

[IOM]

Welcome aboard...
I'm not giving up...
Nor, will I run...!!!

 

[Ura-Ki]

What you may be missing is the fact that many of "us" on the "right" truly are concerned with justice and racial equality, and would genuinely love to be able to support "black lives matter". The problem comes when we look at the written, stated goals of BLM as an organization, and we realize that they are actually extremist, racist, and Marxist in nature, calling for black separatism and Marxism. I just don't see that as being helpful to anyone, black, white, or any shade in between. As much as I support equality and justice (and I do), how can I be expected to support their radical goals? How is it fair that I'm called racist, when it's their radical ideology I reject, not race?

If they were more moderate and realistic in their stated goals, you would find strong support for them among conservatives. The problem as I see it is that their goals are very one-sided, appealing to the radical left, leading me to think it's not really about race, but rather ideology. Many of the people in the streets are sincere in what they're trying to accomplish, but I have sincere doubts about the money and power behind them.

The thing with politics and ideology is that we all have our own beliefs, and we all think we are right. If you only listen to voices that reinforce your beliefs, you will be hardened in your views. If you listen to voices that challenge your views, then you will have better understanding of others. You don't have to agree with your ideological opponent in order to understand where they're coming from, but you're likely to hate them less if you can see their perspective. Yes, many on the right are close-minded in that regard, but I see tremendous, nearly universal close-mindedness among the left nowadays as well. Everyone is polarized, ready for a fight. Scary times.

^^^^^^^This^^^^^^^^^

I'm right there with ya. I hate this race thing, but the issues are much deeper then most think. BLM is a sick joke created by the left to further empower leftist ideologies, and in fact, more then 80% of donations to that group goes right to the DNC for political campaigns! Let that sink in a bit! And we are supposed to accept this as a legitimate movement, I think Not!

The constant protests are also a joke, sure there are peaceful folk trying to have their voices heard and their ideas spread, but when you stand there mouth full of flies watching the rioters take over and do nothing to stop them and take back your message, YOU are now a part of that problem! The fact the rioters show up and continue unchallenged makes it hard to differentiate between the two groups! Obummer was brilliant, he spun up the race hate more then anyone else in history, in 8 years of his presidency, he did far more to harm "His People" then any one else, while crying out for justice for those people, and then proceeding to name every white person a criminal who must pay reparations for the sin of being born white!

Kind of hard to keep a strait face and an even keel when you have all this happening all around you. I'ma pretty fair minded, even tempered, thinking person, and what I see is alarming! I have been called Deplorable, MAGAbilly, Racist, Cracker, Tom Turkey, and many other hateful derogatory things, All because i'm WHITE, Conservative, christian, and a veteran! I feel debased, betrayed, belittled, and held hostage for the past I have noting to do with, and what's worse, I feel disenfranchised in my own country because others feel it's there right to be more equal then others, and our politicians only care about grabbing more power and control while society circles the drain!

 

[No_Regerts]

Honest question, in 34 years as an LEO, did you see or work with folks who were bad cops? If so, did you do anything about it?

In 16 years as an LEO, I have learned a lot about what is idealistic and what is real. Many of the guys who I thought were "wrong" and "bad" turned out to be experienced and weren't living with rosie colored lenses. I gained respect by standing up against a few people who really were bad. I wrote reports, some got in trouble. Some got fired. I promoted and became an instructor to impart as much of what I think is right as I can. I've hired people that I thought were good for the evolving culture of LE. I've been wrong and cut people loose.

I've gotten a lot of respect over my career, mostly from people I've arrested. I'm fair and honest and take people's liberty very seriously. I have had very few complaints filed against me and all were unfounded. Most by staff. I got sued for firing someone and was supported by the AG and won. Talk about stress.

With all that said, I've also had more uses of force than just about anyone in my county. I am faster to go to force than just about anyone. But, I start small and keep it small so it doesn't snowball. Very few people ever got hurt, but force was used.

How that all works out if, God forbid, I ever cause a death? "Officer involved in shooting has history with confrontations with coworkers". "Officer involved in shooting has history of using force". I hope people would wait for the whole picture before advocating my public crucifixion.

 

[frank linkh]

...suns out, guns out,,,, dgf....

 

[Kruel J]

In 16 years as an LEO, I have learned a lot about what is idealistic and what is real. Many of the guys who I thought were "wrong" and "bad" turned out to be experienced and were living with rosie colored lenses. I gained respect by standing up against a few people who really were bad. I wrote reports, some got in trouble. Some got fired. I promoted and became an instructor to impart as much of what I think is right as I can. I've hired people that I thought were good for the evolving culture of LE. I've been wrong and cut people loose.

I've gotten a lot of respect over my career, mostly from people I've arrested. I'm fair and honest and take people's liberty very seriously. I have had very few complaints filed against me and all were unfounded. Most by staff. I got sued for firing someone and was supported by the AG and won. Talk about stress.

With all that said, I've also had more uses of force than just about anyone in my county. I am faster to go to force than just about anyone. But, I start small and keep it small so it doesn't snowball. Very few people ever got hurt, but force was used.

How that all works out if, God forbid, I ever cause a death? "Officer involved in shooting has history with confrontations with coworkers". "Officer involved in shooting has history of using force". I hope people would wait for the whole picture before advocating my public crucifixion.

LE isn't an easy career, and the hatred for all based on a few "bad apples" reminds me of something.....

Oh yeah, raw unwavering prejudice.

Black lives matter. So do blue lives. And every other color in the rainbow. Blind hatred is a vessel for the ignorant.

 

[turbo_vanner]

In 16 years as an LEO, I have learned a lot about what is idealistic and what is real. Many of the guys who I thought were "wrong" and "bad" turned out to be experienced and were living with rosie colored lenses. I gained respect by standing up against a few people who really were bad. I wrote reports, some got in trouble. Some got fired. I promoted and became an instructor to impart as much of what I think is right as I can. I've hired people that I thought were good for the evolving culture of LE. I've been wrong and cut people loose.

I've gotten a lot of respect over my career, mostly from people I've arrested. I'm fair and honest and take people's liberty very seriously. I have had very few complaints filed against me and all were unfounded. Most by staff. I got sued for firing someone and was supported by the AG and won. Talk about stress.

With all that said, I've also had more uses of force than just about anyone in my county. I am faster to go to force than just about anyone. But, I start small and keep it small so it doesn't snowball. Very few people ever got hurt, but force was used.

How that all works out if, God forbid, I ever cause a death? "Officer involved in shooting has history with confrontations with coworkers". "Officer involved in shooting has history of using force". I hope people would wait for the whole picture before advocating my public crucifixion.

Thanks for the response, and I appreciate the perspective.

 

[po18guy]

Welcome! As sad as the current malaise is, hope can be restored somewhat by thinking of society as a pendulum. It is unsustainable at maximum swing and must, by the laws of human nature and physics, return to center. Oh, it will swing the other way for a time, but dead center is the only sustainable society. Anarchy and its "useful idiots" (who was it said that???) will implode as they are driven, not by reason, but by fleeting emotion. Still very sad to watch.

We know what is right. We are armed. We are the civilian militia. Let them have their childish temper tantrum. Time and age will moderate the survivors, if there are any. Until then, the sleeping giuant of the normal majority must awaken and impose order upon those who do not know who they work for.

 

[No_Regerts]

Thanks for the response, and I appreciate the perspective.

You're welcome. Its not exceptional either. No one wants to work with a hot head or someone who is unprofessional. People would be surprised to know that we don't typically have that much day to day interaction with each other.

You rarely see blowups between officers, but its very common to have someone come in and ask to have a talk. We listen, assess for ourselves, start a paper trail, and then try to train or cut ties. Its way easier, unfortunately, to get someone sent to prison than fired.

 

[Kruel J]

I hope people would wait for the whole picture before advocating my public crucifixion.

Probably not, not in this day and age. Too bad the people that would likely call for your hands and feet to be nailed to a cross are too lost in their anger to realize that YOU would protect and serve them without question. Swiftly and honorably.

F the people that carry their hatred for LEOs as a giant chip on their shoulder. There's plenty of us that appreciate and support our cops.

Blue lives face what most fear, and do it selflessly knowing their life could be lost in the process.

I for one will NEVER lose sight of that.

 

[Ura-Ki]

Most LEO that I know and interact with are good honest hard working folks who genuinely try as hard as they can to help and do the right thing, even if it puts them at risk! I have met and worked around a few who had, for what ever reason let the stress of the job get the better of them, but most remain the consummate professionals we expect them to be, and that is reassuring! Sure, there are those who shouldn't be out on the streets, but it takes time to figure out which ones they are, and some times, the job changes good people into that which they them selves try to avoid becoming, but, We Need them out there doing their jobs, because with out, we devolve and become feral savages!