HAS THE .40 S&W FOUND REDEMPTION?

[DHart]

Has the .40S&W found redemption?

With me it sure has!

.40S&W is a FANTASTIC round when fired from a platform that handles it well, like the S&W M&P, Browning HiPower 40, STI Edge .40S&W, etc.

I've been a Glock fan for a long time, with 9mm and .45auto in particular. I don't like how Glocks handle forty, however; Glocks just don't fire comfortably to me in that caliber.

I DO believe in the caliber .40S&W, however, as I have fired the Browning HiPower 40, the STI Edge in .40, and the M&P in .40. These are all fabulous platforms for the caliber.

DocGKR recommended the M&P40 to me as a pistol that handles forty as softly and comfortably as any out there. I gave them a try. And now, my carry pistols are M&P40s! They are fantastic. Sixteen rounds of forty in a platform that handles the caliber very softly and comfortably. The M&P40 makes the caliber choice an easy one; they shoot very softly and comfortably, are accurate, and most importantly... are reliable! Shooting forty in an M&P is nearly as effortless as shooting 9mm in a Glock.

 

[CHLChris]

BTW, 40 never had a downturn in competition. 9 is dominant in some divisions but in Limited USPSA 40 is the #1 choice for folks who don't load their own, and for many folks who DO load, too.

 

[DHart]

BTW, 40 never had a downturn in competition. 9 is dominant in some divisions but in Limited USPSA 40 is the #1 choice for folks who don't load their own, and for many folks who DO load, too.

This pistol is legend in competition and, wonderfully, makes shooting .40S&W feel like shooting a mild nine.

 

[Martini_Up]

40 is to 10mm what 380 is to 9mm.... and I have owned / carried them all at one time or another.

First rule of a gunfight... have a gun!

Anyway, we all know (or at least should know it's not the round it the shot placement.

But back to the 40. It's been great that it's been wrongly dogged lately. It means it's now cheaper to purchase and there is plenty of it as well!!!

 

[CHLChris]

This pistol is legend in competition and, wonderfully, makes shooting .40S&W feel like shooting a mild nine.

So, I can't find that listing in the Handgun Classifieds. I'll take it!

 

[etrain16]

So, I can't find that listing in the Handgun Classifieds. I'll take it!

Make that 2!!!

 

[Sgt Nambu]

This pistol is legend in competition and, wonderfully, makes shooting .40S&W feel like shooting a mild nine.

I have to put a really, really like on this one!!!

 

[etrain16]

I have to put a really, really like on this one!!!

You can have one like it...for $2,500...

 

[Sgt Nambu]

Yeah....no! I'd have to win the lottery!

 

[DHart]

You can have one like it...for $2,500...

Wow... I think I paid about $1700 for mine, but that was a number of years ago. Guessthey've really gone up.

 

[U8395279]

The .40 is not for me. It doesn't represent a significant enough improvement over 9mm for me to justify the extra recoil and reduced round count.

Well, but that is the advantage that the .40 S&W has over a .45 You can have a same size gun as a 9mm, yet the round count reduction is quite minimal.

For example, with my Beretta PX4, the slightly extended Beretta mag holds 17 rounds of .40 S&W, vs 20 rounds of 9mm That is a difference of only 3 rounds.



.
If I was to go to a PX4 in .45 auto, the round count for the mag then drops all the way down to 10.

Of course, when high cap mags eventually become illegal to possess, then everyone is going to then want to shoot .45's, if we become limited to a max of only 10 rounds.

There are some high cap 45's like the Glock 21, the FN, and Springfield XDm 45. But those are all really big and bulky guns. Too big for me to want to carry.

.

 

[L84Cabo]

Well, but that is the advantage that the .40 S&W has over a .45 You can have a same size gun as a 9mm, yet the round count reduction is quite minimal.

For example, with my Beretta PX4, the slightly extended Beretta mag holds 17 rounds of .40 S&W, vs 20 rounds of 9mm That is a difference of only 3 rounds.

View attachment 302492

.
If I was to go to a PX4 in .45 auto, the round count for the mag then drops all the way down to 10.

Of course, when high cap mags eventually become illegal to possess, then everyone is going to then want to shoot .45's, if we become limited to a max of only 10 rounds.

There are some high cap 45's like the Glock 21, the FN, and Springfield XDm 45. But those are all really big and bulky guns. Too big for me to want to carry.

.

Yup. All valid points. At the end of the day, I'm a 9mm and 45acp man. I don't see the slightly better performance of the .40 as worth it for the extra recoil. And if I don't think 9mm is enough, then I want 45. We're all going to feel a little differently about this. I can't find any fault with someone who chooses .40 over 9mm...or even .45.

 

[DHart]

I prefer .40 for carry for the same reasons that so many LE agencies choose .40. You get a higher performing round than 9mm and greater capacity than .45. Sort of a nice happy medium of performance & capacity. The key is to choose a platform that handles .40 softly and comfortably. I haven't found the G23 to do this comfortably enough for me, but I have found the Browning HiPower, S&W M&P, and STI Edge platforms to handle .40 very comfortably. Of those three, for carry purposes, the M&P40 and M&P40 Compact easily win out.

 

[BT BT]

I've been noticing a lot more action on the .40S&W front recently. Folks are buying, selling and talking about the .40.
A few months ago there were threads about the ".40S&W ammo dump" and "why does everyone hate the .40S&W." Also, discussions about the cartridge's characteristics, utility and propensity for over penetration.
Have we finally come to our senses? Did the round get better? Personally I like the round, but as an old varmint hunter, I just like velocity in general. I'll never sell mine, though I haven't carried it for years. I would like a light carbine in that caliber, I think it would be a handy combo set.
So is it yea or nay, these days? Watcha' think?

HAS THE .40 S&W FOUND REDEMPTION?



Most self-defense caliber and best gun opinion conversations, like in this article, are simply emotional; very much like any arguments relating to Chevy vs. Ford and Dodge being the best car. Even those fights about the Turbo Chargers vs. Super Charger are simply based on the emotional bias of the person talking. So, for that reason we must set aside the personal 'collection' people that may not shoot more than a box per year; and the "it's what my father and I have always had or used" opinions. For these reasons I will stick to the 'heads-up' imperial performance statistics and cartridge specifications, even at the weapons level specifications that best fit the 'calibers' available in self-defense handguns.



A brief '40 S&W Redemption' summary for self-defense applications: In general when tested 'heads-up' in the same firearm the 40 S&W cartridge has better performance than the 380ACP, the 9mm, and is only rivaled 'in impact performance' by the 10mm and 45ACP; unfortunately both result in a detrimental effect in recoil 'Feel'. In addition if you combine the lighter the handgun, the worse the feel, along with a total performance failure if you have the wrong projectile 'Bullet'.



Performance Graphs and/or Charts are available, and are common on the Internet; however most do not reflect heads-up handgun statistics (Same make and model with only upper barrel/spring changes); also the affect of 'feel' for the second and third shot is not addressed. Like the difference between the old 'all steel' heavy compared to the same newer version of that model with the same barrel length in a 'light weight composite' handgun.



Consider the affect of these overall items:



A) The push by both Gun and Ammunition industries to 'Gain and/or Hold On To the Market Share they had' in order to keep their equipment/production lines running opposed to the 'Real' or 'Genuine' performance improvements being offered by the competition? Look at the Military and Agency trends as a clue to this answer; the civilian market is almost an after thought to sell low volume excess.



B) In the consumer and civilian market, several first time caliber and pistol decisions are simply made based on three factors: 1) Family history based on what was available and/or common when your father bought his pistol. 2) Friends, word of mouth and first time shooting using the caliber and pistol that the person that took you shooting bought from some time back (almost the same as #1 above). 3) The guy behind the counter and their history based on #1 or #2 above, and simple cost of the pistol and the ammunition at the plinking level.



C) IGNORANCE at all levels.



It's all about the bullet and load matching the pistol to the application. As the customer asks "What do you recommend in a Self-Defense pistol?", the first thing that needs to be asked is "What do you want it for?". Easy-Deal.


Bottom line: The 40 S&W was, and continues to be actively fought against today by the competition. It's all in the projectile matching the target and your wallet, as is the best car.

 

[BT BT]

I don't hate the .40, actually think it is somewhat better than either 9mm or .45, but I bailed on it because I am trying to standardize, and I like the economy and availability of the 9mm, also that it is the standard military cartridge. I'd get out of .45 too if I didn't have my Dad's 1911, keeping it for memory's sake.

HAS THE .40 S&W FOUND REDEMPTION?



Most self-defense caliber and best gun opinion conversations, like in this article, are simply emotional; very much like any arguments relating to Chevy vs. Ford and Dodge being the best car. Even those fights about the Turbo Chargers vs. Super Charger are simply based on the emotional bias of the person talking. So, for that reason we must set aside the personal 'collection' people that may not shoot more than a box per year; and the "it's what my father and I have always had or used" opinions. For these reasons I will stick to the 'heads-up' imperial performance statistics and cartridge specifications, even at the weapons level specifications that best fit the 'calibers' available in self-defense handguns.



A brief '40 S&W Redemption' summary for self-defense applications: In general when tested 'heads-up' in the same firearm the 40 S&W cartridge has better performance than the 380ACP, the 9mm, and is only rivaled 'in impact performance' by the 10mm and 45ACP; unfortunately both result in a detrimental effect in recoil 'Feel'. In addition if you combine the lighter the handgun, the worse the feel, along with a total performance failure if you have the wrong projectile 'Bullet'.



Performance Graphs and/or Charts are available, and are common on the Internet; however most do not reflect heads-up handgun statistics (Same make and model with only upper barrel/spring changes); also the affect of 'feel' for the second and third shot is not addressed. Like the difference between the old 'all steel' heavy compared to the same newer version of that model with the same barrel length in a 'light weight composite' handgun.



Consider the affect of these overall items:



A) The push by both Gun and Ammunition industries to 'Gain and/or Hold On To the Market Share they had' in order to keep their equipment/production lines running opposed to the 'Real' or 'Genuine' performance improvements being offered by the competition? Look at the Military and Agency trends as a clue to this answer; the civilian market is almost an after thought to sell low volume excess.



B) In the consumer and civilian market, several first time caliber and pistol decisions are simply made based on three factors: 1) Family history based on what was available and/or common when your father bought his pistol. 2) Friends, word of mouth and first time shooting using the caliber and pistol that the person that took you shooting bought from some time back (almost the same as #1 above). 3) The guy behind the counter and their history based on #1 or #2 above, and simple cost of the pistol and the ammunition at the plinking level.



C) IGNORANCE at all levels.



It's all about the bullet and load matching the pistol to the application. As the customer asks "What do you recommend in a Self-Defense pistol?", the first thing that needs to be asked is "What do you want it for?". Easy-Deal.


Bottom line: The 40 S&W was, and continues to be actively fought against today by the competition. It's all in the projectile matching the target and your wallet, as is the best car.

 

[BT BT]

I've been noticing a lot more action on the .40S&W front recently. Folks are buying, selling and talking about the .40.
A few months ago there were threads about the ".40S&W ammo dump" and "why does everyone hate the .40S&W." Also, discussions about the cartridge's characteristics, utility and propensity for over penetration.
Have we finally come to our senses? Did the round get better? Personally I like the round, but as an old varmint hunter, I just like velocity in general. I'll never sell mine, though I haven't carried it for years. I would like a light carbine in that caliber, I think it would be a handy combo set.
So is it yea or nay, these days? Watcha' think?

HAS THE .40 S&W FOUND REDEMPTION?



Most self-defense caliber and best gun opinion conversations, like in this article, are simply emotional; very much like any arguments relating to Chevy vs. Ford and Dodge being the best car. Even those fights about the Turbo Chargers vs. Super Charger are simply based on the emotional bias of the person talking. So, for that reason we must set aside the personal 'collection' people that may not shoot more than a box per year; and the "it's what my father and I have always had or used" opinions. For these reasons I will stick to the 'heads-up' imperial performance statistics and cartridge specifications, even at the weapons level specifications that best fit the 'calibers' available in self-defense handguns.



A brief '40 S&W Redemption' summary for self-defense applications: In general when tested 'heads-up' in the same firearm the 40 S&W cartridge has better performance than the 380ACP, the 9mm, and is only rivaled 'in impact performance' by the 10mm and 45ACP; unfortunately both result in a detrimental effect in recoil 'Feel'. In addition if you combine the lighter the handgun, the worse the feel, along with a total performance failure if you have the wrong projectile 'Bullet'.



Performance Graphs and/or Charts are available, and are common on the Internet; however most do not reflect heads-up handgun statistics (Same make and model with only upper barrel/spring changes); also the affect of 'feel' for the second and third shot is not addressed. Like the difference between the old 'all steel' heavy compared to the same newer version of that model with the same barrel length in a 'light weight composite' handgun.



Consider the affect of these overall items:



A) The push by both Gun and Ammunition industries to 'Gain and/or Hold On To the Market Share they had' in order to keep their equipment/production lines running opposed to the 'Real' or 'Genuine' performance improvements being offered by the competition? Look at the Military and Agency trends as a clue to this answer; the civilian market is almost an after thought to sell low volume excess.



B) In the consumer and civilian market, several first time caliber and pistol decisions are simply made based on three factors: 1) Family history based on what was available and/or common when your father bought his pistol. 2) Friends, word of mouth and first time shooting using the caliber and pistol that the person that took you shooting bought from some time back (almost the same as #1 above). 3) The guy behind the counter and their history based on #1 or #2 above, and simple cost of the pistol and the ammunition at the plinking level.



C) IGNORANCE at all levels.



It's all about the bullet and load matching the pistol to the application. As the customer asks "What do you recommend in a Self-Defense pistol?", the first thing that needs to be asked is "What do you want it for?". Easy-Deal.


Bottom line: The 40 S&W was, and continues to be actively fought against today by the competition. It's all in the projectile matching the target and your wallet, as is the best car.

 

[DHart]

BT BT... what are your thoughts on this?

Just kidding. Some good points made!

 

[Ura-Ki]

You can build an STI just like that for about a grand! Worth every penny too! If you cant shoot good with one of these, you need to find another hobby, cause this aint it for you! LOL To date; I have now built 7 of them and all run Perfectly! Plus they look and feel awesome, Awesome wins every time!

 

[erudne]

Counter argument:
Has The Pope bubblegum In The Woods?

 

[DeanMk]

I've been noticing a lot more action on the .40S&W front recently. Folks are buying, selling and talking about the .40.
A few months ago there were threads about the ".40S&W ammo dump" and "why does everyone hate the .40S&W." Also, discussions about the cartridge's characteristics, utility and propensity for over penetration.
Have we finally come to our senses? Did the round get better? Personally I like the round, but as an old varmint hunter, I just like velocity in general. I'll never sell mine, though I haven't carried it for years. I would like a light carbine in that caliber, I think it would be a handy combo set.
So is it yea or nay, these days? Watcha' think?

I think this is how a group of enthusiasts figured out how to get a bunch of ammo for cheap.
...think about it...