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Has anyone considered the type of firearm likely to be carried by the assailant?

Discussion in 'Education & Training' started by JimmyS1985, Sep 28, 2013.

  1. JimmyS1985

    JimmyS1985 St.Louis Active Member

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    I live in one of the most dangerous cities in the country, St. Louis MO. The other cities that rival it in how dangerous it is are Flint Michigan and Detroit, usually the 3 round out the top 3 for most violent crime in a city.

    The gun with the shortest period of time between when it is bought brand new, and when it is confiscated by police due to use in a gun crime is the Hi-point C9, about a year.

    This is a firearm that is cheap, around $150, and a semi-automatic, chambered in 9mm.

    Other popular guns are .38 revolvers, usually small, concealable, and cheap is what constitutes most guns confiscated by police because of use in a gun crime.

    For that matter, AR15's, AK47's and most semi-automatic rifles only constitute around 1% of gun deaths in this country. While those make the news the most, they are among the least likely weapons to be used in a gun death.

    I see so many gun articles considering which gun is right for you, for self defense, but I rarely see anything discussing what weapon is likely to be used against you. This should be one of the most crucial factors when making a purchasing decision for a firearm to be used in a self-defense scenario, what is the perpetrator likely to be using? Obviously you would want a firearm that is superior in most categories to thwart the criminal.

    Another article I read discussing this topic involved a police detective who did a more thorough categorization of the fire arms to cross his desk, and found a lot of the guns didn't even work for that matter, or stove piped/jammed after 1-3 round was put through it and well before it could exhaust its magazine. Most police departments only categorize a firearm used in a crime under Rifle, Shotgun or handgun categories, with no additional information on what type of firearm or it was, what round it was chambered for, etc. etc.

    I personally believe this is because most gun crime is in low income neighborhoods, where the best weaponry and equipment is very hard to come by, and so bargain brand firearms like the Hi-point C9 are considered the weapon of choice.

    The TEC-9 use to be a very popular gun amongst criminals, not sure where it ranks today. It was not very accurate, but could house a large capacity magazine, and was lowly priced. Older versions of the weapons could easily be converted to be fully automatic. The most famous crime this weapon was used in was the Columbine shooting, which was a testament to its low dollar nature, since high school students could afford it.

    I think the studying of what guns you're likely to run into when you find yourself in a situation where the assailant has a gun shouldn't be as overlooked as much as it seems to have been.
     
  2. Riot

    Riot Benton County, Washington Well-Known Member

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    I used to joke with a coworker of mine that carried a Hi-Point that if he ever ran out of ammo, he could pick up the bad-guy's magazines.

    Nevertheless, I think you have a point in that maybe we should adjust for what type of firearms the "bad guys" use....but that probably only applies to organized enemy contacts (i.e. overseas combat or UN incursion). Estimating what your local criminal element is most likely to use is too unpredictable when you're dealing with such diverse, opportunistic, amateurs. Mostly, the firearm they use is the one that they have at the time. Since most criminals obtain guns illegally (steal them, black market, etc.) the guns can range from a .22lr to an AK variant in 7.62x39.

    It shouldn't actually be shocking to note that many criminals actually use knives.

    They're cheap, they don't run out of ammo or jam, it's not a crime for a criminal to own or carry one, you don't need a lot of skill to use one and many knives can even go through soft armor if used properly.

    So, if you were worried about what the bad guy had (in terms of weapons) I would say if you lived in the US/UK, you're probably more likely to get stabbed than shot. This just means you should have a tactical knowledge of knife defense. Keep your distance, check hands and body language...this stuff will give you a better chance of helping you than studying statistics of what caliber you're most likely to come across on the streets.
     
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  3. Certaindeaf

    Certaindeaf SE Portland Well-Known Member

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    It's the Indian so no, not really.
     
  4. DMcGPNW

    DMcGPNW SW WA Member

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    The most important factor in firearm "superiority", for self defense, is weather your firearm is well maintained and you are proficient with that firearm. If you roll into a situation with a Kimber Solo Carry or Sig P938 and it is dirty from your last few range sessions of static paper shooting. The thug with the Kel-Tec pf9 that he keeps clean and is his go to for what he considers a routine holdup is in the superior position firepower wise. Although, if you look at FBI homicide stats you much more likely to be killed by someone's bare hands than that Hi-point. Ultimately, you are likely to be at a disadvantage in any reactive defensive situation. Give yourself the best possible tools to react with this includes your mental and physical state..
     
  5. JimmyS1985

    JimmyS1985 St.Louis Active Member

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    I should link the article when I was reading up on this topic. I'm not making this bullbubblegum up, I have an interest in this topic since I majored in Criminal Justice and received my 4 year degree from a non-profit institution.

    A lot of the guns, granted his sample size was small (about 85 guns or so) but just having a well maintained firearm that could reliably exhaust its magazine without jamming, is a huge advantage over something like 1/3 of the guns used in gun crime, since a lot of them either didn't fire a single shot off, or fired between 1-3 shots before they would no longer fire anymore.

    Its hard to get hard facts on the topic because law enforcement only describes if the firearm was a handgun, shotgun or rifle, there is no requirement for them to go into detail on the firearm. No info on the brand of choice, the caliber of round. Chicago is a pretty crime ridden country, and thats the department I got the fact from that the Hi-Point C9 is the gun with the shortest time period between being bought, and winding up in a police evidence room of all the guns one of the largest police departments in the country, confiscates.

    Also 1 in 3.3 shootings dies from their wounds. As for what you're "Likely" to be killed by, I like to bring up that Alcohol kills about 4x as many people a year as guns, and tobacco kills about 20x as many people a year as firearms, yet none of those deaths receive near as much bad press. As for banning Semi-Automatic Sporting Rifles like the Bushmaster AR15, they account for 1 stinkin percent of gun deaths so a total ban on those types of firearms would save next to nobodys lives in this country. The guns involved in the most shootings are small and concealable, and tend to be handguns, and no one wants to ban those because for practical purposes, they're also the most useful types of firearms for a law abiding citizen to carry in this country.
     
  6. CoastRange57

    CoastRange57 Western Oregon Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    1 million times more important that what the bad guy or you are carrying for a weapon.
     
  7. fyrediver

    fyrediver Seattle Active Member

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    No, but it will probably be whatever they stole from their last victim.
     
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  8. erudne

    erudne The Pie Matrix PPL Say Sleeping W/Your Rifle Is A bad Thing? Bronze Supporter

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    Please refer to Fast and Furious, Gunwalker, Castaway, et al
     
  9. Jammer Six

    Jammer Six North Greenlake, Seattle New Member

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    What you carry does not affect what I carry.
     
  10. orygun

    orygun West Linn Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    I have to agree with Jammer on this one.

    I don't care what a criminal carries. I know what I carry. I am competent with it. Whatever "it" is may vary with the environment. Example, in the city I'm usually carrying a 45 cal handgun that I shoot well. In the boondocks it's either that .45, or a 357 I shoot well being backup to a 30-06 or a 12 ga. I don't care what you point at me, when I have the opportunity, I'm gonna shoot you.
     
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  11. jbett98

    jbett98 NW Oregon Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    How much range time do most criminals get to practice with their stolen weapons.
     
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  12. CoastRange57

    CoastRange57 Western Oregon Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    That is why all the drive bye's only result in leg or other non lethal wounds. Instead of prosecuting them, give them free ammo and range time and when they get 6 out of 10 in the kill zone, then they can go after their homeboys.

    The Aryans are the ones you have to watch out for, they actually take their weapons out and practice with them.
     
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  13. RBid

    RBid Wilsonville, OR Well-Known Member

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    jbett98 beat me to the punch here, and I want to give a nod to what DMcGPNW said.

    The best takeaway that we have from studies of which types of equipment are most prevalent among bad guys is that their equipment may provide an advantage. Any time we're speaking in terms of possibility, we are also saying, "...or may not". In plain English, we can't depend on this, or even form an actionable statement of general truth. The information may as well be unknown to us.

    What is exponentially more likely to inform the outcome of events that we're involved in is how we prepare ourselves in advance. The mindset, skills, and equipment we bring to the table are ours to control. The rest will be a surprise.
     
  14. Jammer Six

    Jammer Six North Greenlake, Seattle New Member

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    Not even close.

    I'm not worried about anyone dim enough to announce their intentions, hold rallies and pose for headlines. I know a number of children who are far more threat than they are.

    Butler was gutted by (get this) a civil action.
     
  15. Silver Hand

    Silver Hand Southern Oregon Coast Well-Known Member

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    In a time of need, The last thing I will ever give consider is what weapon someone may be using against me.
    If the threat is real, My only consideration will be can I kill that person before they kill me.

    You can spend your life looking at statics It will never help you a bit in a life and death matter.
    Shoot often - Shoot well, your life may depend on it.
    Silver Hand
     
  16. mjbskwim

    mjbskwim Salmon,Idaho Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, as long as his weapon doesn't take up a bunch of center mass,it matters not
     
  17. simon99

    simon99 Central Oregon Well-Known Member

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    There's no doubt that the majority of crimes are committed with cheap weapons. However, that shouldn't dictate your tactics and role of self-preservation....eliminate the threat asap.
     
  18. guyfromChina

    guyfromChina Originally:Indiana, Currently: China, Soon: Oregon New Member

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    In medieval times this kind of thinking was an important aspect of the martial arts and it drove the development of arms and armor. It has also played into my decision that in the future I will always carry an extra mag with my mouse-gun although the possibility of multiple assailants and just plain missing are probably more significant factors than the statistical prevalence of cheap hi-caps among the criminal set.

    Anyway if criminals usually have crummy guns then that means what we're packing is good nuf no?
    It would take the opposite data --that criminals were gearing up with mini AKs-- to become a "crucial factor"