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Hard to tell when to get involved

Discussion in 'General Firearm Discussion' started by BigStick, Jul 19, 2013.

  1. BigStick

    BigStick Sherwood, OR Well-Known Member

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    I watched this video with no audio. A guy comes running and catches a bus. Several people chase him down and block the bus so it can't leave and demand the guy that got off the bus, then continue to gang up on him, stab him and mob beat him.

    Watching the video I was trying to figure out at what point I would have intervened as a bistander watching this guy get beat by a mob.

    Turns out the guy had stabbed someone and was running away from the scene. Not saying that deserves a mob beat down, but what would have happened if a concerned citizen stepped in with a gun to stop the beating? How would the stabber respond to being protected?

    This is why it is so hard to decide when to intervene and why most people just say they will be a good witness. I just have a hard time thinking I could stand by while a mob beat some guy on the street.

    Dramatic video of stabbing - state patrol wants your help... | www.kirotv.com
     
  2. Dunerunner

    Dunerunner You'll Never Know Well-Known Member

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    This is exactly why if you decide to act alone, you put yourself at risk. Not any single uniformed officer would put themselves in that situation!
     
  3. BigStick

    BigStick Sherwood, OR Well-Known Member

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    I don't know if I agree with that. I'm sure there are plenty of officers who would step in here. After calling for backup of course.
     
  4. Dunerunner

    Dunerunner You'll Never Know Well-Known Member

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    Yes, as the requested support is rolling from the local donut shop around the corner, but; that was not the scenario.

    You are alone and facing a "Mob" that is beating and stabbing a single individual. If you intervene, there is the risk that you may have to use deadly force to protect yourself from the mob, possibly killing an innocent citizen while protecting a suspected criminal. You have no radio to call for back-up, and I doubt any of the other bystanders would do anything except whip out their cell phones to video the confrontation.

    Given the same circumstances, no back-up, I seriously doubt a police officer would try to intervene other than to identify themselves as police and attempt to determine what the situation is. Damned dangerous and would probably not be part of any standard operating proceedure. JMHO
     
  5. BigStick

    BigStick Sherwood, OR Well-Known Member

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    I'm not dissagreeing with the danger, or how scary it would be. And knowing the details now, the guy getting beat deserved it, but that does not mean that the mob beating him are innocent. Mob violence is wrong, even if a justifiable reason started it. The bad guy was trying to get away, and they were trying to get retribution, not detain him for police.
     
  6. Dunerunner

    Dunerunner You'll Never Know Well-Known Member

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    I'm afraid that if you got involved you would, as I said, en up having to use deadly force to protect yourself from the mob. That act would only infuriate them more. Just because you carry, doesn't make you the police and does not require that you to involve yourself in a potentially deadly confrontation with an angry mob.

    I hope I never find myself in that situation. Thought provoking though!
     
  7. Ben Beckerich

    Ben Beckerich NW Oregon Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    Looks like it would have been way too hard to tell what was going on. But if I saw anyone trying to stab anyone else, unarmed anyway, I'd be morally obligated to step in at that point. You can't just let people bubblegum other people up.

    Use your best judgement based on the information you have. If you act with a pure heart and mind, e.i., concern for your fellow man and not bravado or a desire to bust caps, you won't do anything overly stupid, even if you turn out to pick the "wrong side."
     
  8. Ben Beckerich

    Ben Beckerich NW Oregon Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    I'll just add that there doesn't appear to be a "wrong side" in this incident. I don't know the full story, but it LOOKS like those guys didn't have any interest in effecting any kind of legal citizen's arrest. That was retaliation.
     
    1 person likes this.
  9. CoastRange57

    CoastRange57 Western Oregon Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    And that is a bad thing ??

    Sometimes when people do stupid or wrong sh*t in the wrong place, they tables get turned on them. If the ahole had not done something to get that crowd coming after him, he would have been fine. Sometimes you have to pay the piper.
     
  10. BigStick

    BigStick Sherwood, OR Well-Known Member

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    If he had stabbed the guy and then been beat down at the scene you could make the argument that it was in defense and to subdue an attacker. Once he runs away and they pull him off the bus to beat him down, it transitions into retaliation/retribution and becomes illegal. Did he deserve it? Sure, but that's not the way our legal system works. Those guys will be going to jail for assault and possibly attempted murder.
     
  11. DeanfromOregon

    DeanfromOregon Wilsonville Amateur Ascended Master Platinum Supporter

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    These days, unless it's me or mine that are being hurt, I just call 911. The chances of getting sued or charged for simply helping someone in need are too great.
     
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  12. Rotty

    Rotty Skagit County Active Member

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    The "Good Samaritan" rule could apply in a situation like this.
     
  13. Dan1477

    Dan1477 Beaverton, Oregon Active Member

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    This is when Pepper Spray comes in handy gentlemen. A beating is one thing, but if you see someone getting stabbed, you should act. Some would disagree with me, but I think that pepperspray (long ranged spray) can stop somebody from being murdered in the street, while not risking yourself legally.

    Do you want to be the next Zimmerman? Even though Zimmerman was found innocent, he will still (probably) be sued for hundreds of thousands of dollars. Not to mention not being safe on the street ever again.
     
  14. Riot

    Riot Benton County, Washington Well-Known Member

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    Did any of you guys notice guy #2 with the face mask on? Yeah, something tells me this was more than just a random mob intervention.
     
  15. Skang

    Skang WA Well-Known Member

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    it's very hard to judge if you are just jumping in, unless you know the full story.

    like someone mentioned already, I wouldn't personally jump in. Just call for help.

    I wonder if bus driver called for help.
     
  16. oknow

    oknow amboy wa. Well-Known Member

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    is that the one that says "no good dead goes unpunished"
     
  17. Skang

    Skang WA Well-Known Member

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    I try not to judge people by the look, but it's more like drug deal gone wrong.
     
  18. mjbeam

    mjbeam Forest Grove, OR New Member

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    Spraying a violent lynch mob in the face with a painful, irritating chemical might present issues more pressing than a pending courtcase. How long ranged is this chemical of which you speak? Unless you can run like the love child of Carl Lewis and Marion Jones, I hope it has a range of at least a couple miles.
     
  19. Dinged

    Dinged Portland, OR Active Member

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    Here's my take on it: I wouldn't do anything but call 911. Unless my life is in immediate danger or my family's/friend's lives are in danger, I wouldn't think about it, especially if it's just me against a mob. The issue is that we don't know if he's a good guy or a bad guy. I know it makes me sound selfish but I can't tell if the guy getting beat up is just some poor helpless sap or if he's a serial killer, I would hate to try and make judgement and step in. Maybe I'd try and get the mob to calm down, but I sure as hell wouldn't risk my life to protect someone who could've just killed someone. Just my two cents, don't crucify me.
     
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  20. Misterbill

    Misterbill Yakima County, Washington New Member

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    I am extremely reluctant to jump into the middle of anything between two or more strangers. There are lots of potential problems, starting with the fact that this is a way to get yourself seriously hurt or killed.

    The second problem is CORRECTLY identifying "victim" vs "perpetrator." Especially if you walked in on the middle of an altercation.

    I would like to think I would generally try to do the right thing, but there are MANY stories of people trying to be the good samaritan who were charged with crimes, killed for their trouble or wound up shooting or assaulting the wrong guy. And don't even get me started on domestics.

    Every situation is different, every situation is fluid and trying to get worked up about "I would X" (or not) seems a pointless exercise.

    I've seen exactly two situations in 50 years where I both had any desire to intervene could have: One took place literally at my doorstep, and I drew my weapon and pointed it at an aggressor looking to beat someone with a baseball bat.

    The other time I witnessed a shooting and I was unarmed, so wisely got the Hell outta Dodge and called the police from a block away.

    I think most of these scenarios that people put out like this are so unlikely to ever happen to most of us, that dwelling on "what would you do." is just bloviating.