Handgun Training...book has interesting view of Lasers & Red-dots

[SoberPoster]

Just got a discounted "Handgun Training" book published 2013. Much of grip, stance, sight alignment was "Old School". This book implies of old assumptions, the 45 is the best, the 1911 is best, the Weaver Stance is best and appears to have been written maybe 15+ years ago.

I am surprised NWFF doesn't have a "Book" review tab where good, bad and mediocre training books are discussed.

Richard Mann did have timings on open-sights Vs Laser grips, Laser-Max, under barrel lasers and the view that "tactically" lasers give an advantage in many close quarters fights.

He then turns around and trout's the Red-dot sights as great.... that has not been my experience. I had a Burris Fast-Fire 2, had it mounted and thru use discovered it's too narrow a view to quickly reacquire the Red-dot between shots and drains that battery too fast.

It's only redeeming feature are those timed Laser tests showing Laser grips are as fast as open sights and offer some advantages.
--Richard Mann says a Laser allows:
1) aiming while keeping gun in secure position like next to your ribs.
2) hip-shooting with aiming, not just muscle memory.
3) aimed shooting from unusual positions (cover) where a stance can't be used.
4) using both eyes open and muzzle lowered to see target's belt line where weapons are kept.
5) lowering gun to a resting position with aiming while waiting for help (police)
6) ability to positively target an assailant within a crowd.
7) positive feedback during dry-fire training showing grip, trigger errors exactly.
8) shooting a J-frame out to 100 yards (really??)
9) older and sight limited shooters just focus on target not the blurry front sight.

----the only issue is bright light washes out the laser, shadows, cloudy days, twilight and night times are best for lasers.

Richard Mann also does excellent coverage of flashlight use, the many types of lights and holds for various positions and situations.

LOL

Read More

 

[rick benjamin]

Everyone has an opinion, Richard Mann's is one of many.

 

[Diamondback]

He's like any author/instructor: take with a grain, keep the tools and techniques that work for you and junk what doesn't. 1911's aren't the answer for everybody, neither is any given form of striker-fired Tactical Tupperware, it really is in the hand of the beholder what fits that individual. If you can get Stopping Shots every time with a pink Sig Mosquito .22, then by all means carry a pink Mosquito. If a Beretta 9mm that makes my wrist hurt just to LOOK at fits you best, carry the Beretta. Just don't try to insist that I trade my 5" 1911 .45 for whatever you've chosen, because you no more know all of my needs than I do all of yours--and we already have enough enemies who'd like to deprive us of even our trouser-trout for self defense without wasting energy on revisiting the Caliber Wars or Mine's Better Than Yours P***ing Contests, right?

@SoberPoster, book reviews is an excellent idea--maybe toss it into the Suggestion Box for @Joe Link to consider?

 

[Andy54Hawken]

As a fellow book nerd ...Err Book Enthusiast a book review section would be nice to have here.
I have started a few book related threads and have seen others here from time to time.
Maybe we could find a spot for a NorthWest Firearms Book Club?....
Andy

 

[Diamondback]

Bearing in mind that this was in a college environment trying to put things in terms that self-styled Future Intellectuals could understand, I always said like 70 to 80 percent of successful self defense started in the library... Seeking out new ideas, ruminating on them, taking notes on things to consider and followup questions, meditating on "internal" questions like what you can/can't and will/won't do... stuff like that.

Most of the rest is learning to apply those concepts on the range, so that if you've trained right the actual response becomes a matter of going down the Avoid-Deescalate-Deter and Ability-Opportunity-Jeopardy checklists and responding accordingly.

 

[Alexx1401]

Like the idea of the place to review books. As far as they go as others mentioned you are just buying some other shooters opinions of what works. Does not mean it will for you. Still often fun to read for me even if I don't agree with them. Nothing seems to get a lot of shooters going more than sights. Some of it gets quite hilarious. Back in the early days of the net for me on an old Usenet forum I had a great one. Father carried for work. Saw a co worker with night sights and liked them. So for fathers day I got him a set put on his work carry pistol. I liked it so much I sent one of mine in for this. One poster said "the problem is the bad guy will see your face lit up green from the sights". I at first thought maybe this was humor. Asked him and he insisted it was not. I told him he had no idea what he was talking about and he really needed to actually see some night sights. He got real mad at this. <shrug>

 

[MasterChief]

How many have ever shot low light or with a handheld/head lamp/no light....

Now for those that just started when:

dogs started barking in the middle of a snowy night and you just sat down for dinner with your wife and the kid(s) was/were just put to sleep

Watching a football game and there's a knock at the door....but you have a door bell (most of your friends use)

In the car after loading groceries and your husband closes the back door then you see another shadow


Play the game.......What light and what weapon to grab......just for thoughts

 

[Alexx1401]

How many have ever shot low light or with a handheld/head lamp/no light....

Now for those that just started when:

dogs started barking in the middle of a snowy night and you just sat down for dinner with your wife and the kid(s) was/were just put to sleep

Watching a football game and there's a knock at the door....but you have a door bell (most of your friends use)

In the car after loading groceries and your husband closes the back door then you see another shadow


Play the game.......What light and what weapon to grab......just for thoughts

This again gets a lot of people going on what works and what is bad. I have all my life been big on a light on a gun I may have to use at night. Back long ago it was often done with a home made mount for the house shotgun. Now days there is tons of them to chose from. My go to house gun now days is a PCC that does have a light with a pressure switch. Normally I don't need the light as there is lights outside and at night enough in the house to see fine. The light on the gun is there in case there is a power outage and there is no light in the house. For handguns it's a little harder but there are a lot of nice options for this now too. If someone wants one and can train with it, fine with me. For those who think these are the worst idea they ever heard of, great don't buy one.

 

[MasterChief]

I had the first scenario hit me (but no kids)....dog was going ape$h!t......I thought for sure a porcupine....nope...family of raccoons......didn't want to use the 1911.....so I ran back in grabbed the 10/22 and 2 mags....then I realized with my scope and holding a flashlight I was not fast at dispatching......cold wind, hot hands, barking dog, burnt powder/smoke in my eyes....and a light on.....coulda been mogadishu....just food for thought.

But I did get 7 out of 9

 

[Alexx1401]

I had the first scenario hit me (but no kids)....dog was going ape$h!t......I thought for sure a porcupine....nope...family of raccoons......didn't want to use the 1911.....so I ran back in grabbed the 10/22 and 2 mags....then I realized with my scope and holding a flashlight I was not fast at dispatching......cold wind, hot hands, barking dog, burnt powder/smoke in my eyes....and a light on.....coulda been mogadishu....just food for thought.

But I did get 7 out of 9

Damn good shooting in that situation.

 

[Andy54Hawken]

..coulda been mogadishu...

Been there... Don't ever want to go back...
Andy

 

[Certaindeaf]

What is not a book?
Everybody (literally, every body) is different. But the fundamentals remain the same. Hit the target fast with something that will effect the desired result. period

 

[wichaka]

"Richard Mann did have timings on open-sights Vs Laser grips, Laser-Max, under barrel lasers and the view that "tactically" lasers give an advantage in many close quarters fights."

Sounds good in theory, but me wonders how many shootings/gunfights he's been in...or even studied. Being an LE instructor does not make an sme.

 

[Diamondback]

I seem to recall him beating his chest about having been a SEAL, and about getting a Richard Marcinko endorsement for one of his books.

I went Skeptic when he declared his support for Obama: "if his judgment is questionable here... where else could his logic processes be faulty?"

 

[wichaka]

I've got one Marcinkos seals working for me at my shooting school now, the real deal...not a chest beater.

 

[Diamondback]

I've got one Marcinkos seals working for me at my shooting school now, the real deal...not a chest beater.

I as a general rule respect the hell out of anyone who made it through BUD/S or any other SF/similarly-advanced-level tactical training, especially since I had three strikes against me on the entry physical any ONE of which alone would have been a DQ and two each a Permanent in and of itself. (Severe seafood allergy PDQ, extreme-high-functioning autism PDQ, unable to make Height-Weight due to oversized frame for height--your average NFL linebacker couldn't Make Chart.)

My point was, there are guys who quietly bring up their CV when needed for cred, and then there's the Loud and In Your Face. Mann came off when I read his work, admittedly on subjective gut feel, more the latter, while your Teammate I would venture to profile closer to the former.

 

[wichaka]

The guy I have was one of the last brought into the fold by Marcinko before he retired.

He's quiet, very unassuming type until one trains with him...and you're immediately slapped with "...there's something different about this guy."

 

[Diamondback]

Generally, from the Top Tier types I've met, that's the norm... could pass for college professors, albeit very physically fit ones. Brains first, but with plenty of muscle to back it up when needed.