Handgun Self-Defense Ammunition Ballistics Tests

[The Heretic]

such stuff is the mark of a scoundrel. Since you are unable to counter me on the issues, you resort to bs.

And you resort to calling people names instead of discussing the issues.

That didn't take long.

 

[The Heretic]

"word" has a point, and on this point I agree and I have voiced the same thing a number of times here and elsewhere (although I hope, with a little more tact ).

Bear (and other wild animal) attacks are rare. More people are attacked and killed by dogs than by bears - generally pet dogs but sometimes feral dogs too. Where there are dangerous bears (generally brown/grizzly bears) more people are attacked and/or killed by moose than bears. In Africa, more people are attacked and killed by hippos than lions. More people are killed each year by their TV falling on them than by the sharks that they see on TV (although I predict with TVs getting lighter and lighter that this will decrease).

But people in general see these media reports and TV shows and so on, and that "informs" their mindset. So yeah, we see a lot of threads about the "best bear gun" when most people have never seen a bear, much less a bear attack. We even had a thread about the best gun for cougars, and right now there is a thread about wolves (one person claiming the wolves he has seen weigh 250 pounds! ).

More likely to be attacked by goats or sheep than a bear or cougar or wolf.

And yes, I have been "attacked" by sheep and cattle and geese. What's the best sheep/goat gun? Them suckers is mean!

I've had dogs chase me - who hasn't. Who doesn't know someone who has at least been bitten by a dog?

 

[x2ndxall]

So, being the inexperienced imbecile I am, I have a question or two for the enlightened.

Will a bear gun kill a dog?
And.
Which seems less wise, to carry a weapon capable of stopping the weakest possible threat you may encounter? Or a weapon capable of ending the biggest, toughest threat you may encounter?

Seems easy to me. But what do I know, I ain't never kilt nothin or shooted a gun in my life.

 

[The Heretic]

So, being the inexperienced imbecile I am, I have a question or two for the enlightened.

Will a bear gun kill a dog?
And.
Which seems less wise, to carry a weapon capable of stopping the weakest possible threat you may encounter? Or a weapon capable of ending the biggest, toughest threat you may encounter?

Seems easy to me. But what do I know, I ain't never kilt nothin or shooted a gun in my life.

Taken to the extreme - a person should carry a .50 BMG rifle in case they run into an armored car and need to take it out.

Just what is the chance that someone in Orygun would run into a brown bear in the woods?

Almost impossible since there are no brown bears in the wild in Orygun. Washington? Yes - really really rare though. The chance that you would run into one and then have it attack you? Almost nil.

But that said, sure - why not? I have a 329PD in .44 mag and a .460 mag revolver just in case I ever encounter a polar bear this far south.

Just what is the biggest toughest threat you are likely to encounter? When was the last time you saw a brown bear in the PNW?
Seriously, I like the .44 mag because it is more versatile than a .357 mag, and will handle anything I am likely to encounter, including any cattle that might get loose and start endangering people (more likely than encountering a bear and can be harder to kill).

The .460 is just because I wanted something that would shoot .45 LC and I figured while I was at it I might as well have something that could shoot .454 and .460 too - the polar bear advantage being a slight plus but not really a factor in why I bought it - plus it is easier and more fun to shoot than the 329PD, but it weighs twice as much so not something I carry on a whim.

 

[Andy54Hawken]

and why should I care what you think, hmm? What makes you so important?

Sounds like the pot calling the kettle black ...
Or were you trying to be ironic?
A large number of your posts seem to be you stating just how important your thoughts are on a given subject ... And just how others thoughts aren't.
Andy

 

[The Heretic]

and why should I care what you think, hmm? What makes you so important?

It might be helpful if you at least give a clue as to whom you are addressing your questions/comments - then people know whether they should respond or not.

That is, unless you are just talking to yourself. In which case, maybe check whether it is time for your meds? If not - maybe you should ask yourself that question.

 

[The Heretic]

is there any POINT in wasting time and money on a bear pistol. then? No there is not. money and time spent on that bs can't be spent on training for realistic threats, but you are so wonderful that you don't have to bother with that, right?

For most people who like guns, it is very rare that any gun purchase is a waste of time or money, regardless of what the gun is for. We buy guns mostly because we want them, not because we really need them (I at least, hope I never need any of my guns for defense).

I certainly don't need a .460 Mag by any stretch of the imagination, but it is fun to have one, and it isn't going to prevent me from spending money on any other gun I want or training for that matter (argument to false dichotomy).

 

[x2ndxall]

The questions I've seen regarding "best handgun for bears" were asked by guys planning a hunt. Typically elk hunts in places where chances of seeing big bears are actually pretty good. This totally throws the logic you two are using right out the window. But, maybe you're reading about people expecting to see a grizzly at the grocery store?

 

[The Heretic]

The questions I've seen regarding "best handgun for bears" were asked by guys planning a hunt. Typically elk hunts in places where chances of seeing big bears are actually pretty good. This totally throws the logic you two are using right out the window. But, maybe you're reading about people expecting to see a grizzly at the grocery store?

I have spent considerable time (more than a couple of weeks on a hunt - I've been in these places for months working) in areas of Alaska (including the Kenai, SW coast and Denali), Montana (including specific areas of GNP and Yellowstone where bears are known to frequent), northeastern WA and northern Idaho where "big bears" are found not infrequently (except WA - the bears are still kind of rare there). I have seen their sign on the trail (not just scat, but prints). On the Kenai, I have run into park rangers carrying big rifles with big holes in the end of the barrel.

Never actually seen a bear.

I did carry a .44 Mag with hot loaded heavy (300 grain) Barnes JSPs meant just for bear defense when in Alaska and Montana. I slept okay in my tent at night.

Even in bear country, it is pretty rare to see a bear unless you are in the right place at the right time. Maybe I am just unlucky?

I don't have a problem with people buying "bear guns" - indeed I have a "polar bear gun" just in case. But I know the reality is that I will never need it to defend myself against a bear, even though I've had bears (and maybe cougars) within one hundred feet of my house.

 

[x2ndxall]

are you FAST enough with the bear gun, from the holster, to handle the men and dogs who are 10,000x as likely to be a threat? No you are not, it's not possible.

You clearly are an amateur.
Yes, I can draw and fire my G20 faster and more accurately than you can your .380.

 

[The Heretic]

You clearly are an amateur.
Yes, I can draw and fire my G20 faster and more accurately than you can your .380.

I officially declare this thread to now be a:

 

[x2ndxall]

I have spent considerable time (more than a couple of weeks on a hunt - I've been in these places for months working) in areas of Alaska (including the Kenai, SW coast and Denali), Montana (including specific areas of GNP and Yellowstone where bears are known to frequent), northeastern WA and northern Idaho where "big bears" are found not infrequently (except WA - the bears are still kind of rare there). I have seen their sign on the trail (not just scat, but prints). On the Kenai, I have run into park rangers carrying big rifles with big holes in the end of the barrel.

Never actually seen a bear.

I did carry a .44 Mag with hot loaded heavy (300 grain) Barnes JSPs meant just for bear defense when in Alaska and Montana. I slept okay in my tent at night.

Even in bear country, it is pretty rare to see a bear unless you are in the right place at the right time. Maybe I am just unlucky?

I don't have a problem with people buying "bear guns" - indeed I have a "polar bear gun" just in case. But I know the reality is that I will never need it to defend myself against a bear, even though I've had bears (and maybe cougars) within one hundred feet of my house.

I, on the other hand, regularly see bears when elk hunting Montana. Maybe those asking about handguns for bears do also?
This is so pointless.

 

[x2ndxall]

I officially declare this thread to now be a:

View attachment 309413

Just having fun with the FNG.

 

[The Heretic]

I, on the other hand, regularly see bears when elk hunting Montana. Maybe those asking about handguns for bears do also?
This is so pointless.

Big scary bears?

Seriously. I know they are out there. That is one reason why I do carry something that might give them pause or at least give me a little bit of feeling secure, plus a .44 mag is better for the black bears and cougars which frequent my property than a .357 mag. But I recognize that as a mostly emotional response, not a rational one given the probabilities.

That said, I don't think I am giving anything up by carrying a .44 mag instead of the .357 mag. In my case, even though both are lightweight (scandium v. titanium), the .44 mag is about the same weight as the .357 mag, just a lot more recoil with heavy loads (the .357 is ported and has ribbed grips - for my pleasure - whereas the .44 mag isn't ported, yet).

 

[x2ndxall]

Big scary bears?

Scary? No.
Something to be wary of? Absolutely.

 

[The Heretic]

Scary? No.
Something to be wary of? Absolutely.

Of course - bears are fuzzy cute things - not scary.

Now snakes and crocs/gators and spiders? Freakishly scary!



The other day I opened the door on my truck and two mice jumped out and scampered off. I about had a heart attack!

 

[Ura-Ki]

This is just the sort of Bear I carry a big bore to defend against!

 

[The Heretic]

This is just the sort of Bear I carry a big bore to defend against!
View attachment 309421

Those sweat pants freak me out!

 

[Ura-Ki]

I wonder how many .44 mags it would take to put that big boy down? Not all bears live in the woods! Cougars ether!!! LOL Just ask Stomper

 

[Andy54Hawken]

This is just the sort of Bear I carry a big bore to defend against!
View attachment 309421

Is that a shaved bigfoot? LOL
Andy