Hand to hand street fighting training?

[Sgt Nambu]

I recommend a rowdy, misspent, grade and high school career in a tough neighborhood!

 

[Joe13]

I recommend a rowdy, misspent, grade and high school career in a tough neighborhood!

Military school as the youngest kid and bigger then most a few years ahead of me taught me an awful lot.

I learned a good punch to the back of the head ends things quickly as does a knee to the front of the head.

 

[Koda]

I have taken a few years of Aikido at Aikkido northwest and loved it. Not to hard to learn, you pick it up fast, and it has a massive range of situations to use it in. Class price isn't too bad either.

I practice Aikido and do not think at all it is easy to learn. Im "getting it"... but honestly suck at it and have been doing it for a while. The thing about Aikido is its based on not harming the attacker but "harmonizing" with his attack, the wicked part of it is if he doesnt know that he harms himself with his own energy and defeats himself. It can be very street effective, but it take a long time to learn how to apply that principal... IMO.

my opinion is if you want to learn some skills quickly, take basic boxing classes. I think Krav Maga or Muai Thai would be very effective street defense skills too but with everything/anything you have to take it for years to be effective you cant just take a few classes and call it good.

 

[MrMillspecer]

I recommend a rowdy, misspent, grade and high school career in a tough neighborhood!

I went to grades 4-8 and then 10th in Lewiston Idaho up in the orchards. I have never seen so many fights in my life. Behind the old Foos and Fun arcade. Half the school w show up. Some of the toughest guys I every hung with in my life. Good good times and nobody died. Have some cool scars and good memories.
.

 

[Gaust]

Has anyone looked into or trained in Systema?

 

[Diamondback]

Military school as the youngest kid and bigger then most a few years ahead of me taught me an awful lot.

I learned a good punch to the back of the head ends things quickly as does a knee to the front of the head.

A judicious application of cane or walking stick to the head, marbles or other sensitives goes a long way too.

As my old friend Mas once said...
"Mr. Atta, I'll see your box cutter and raise you three feet of American hardwood."

 

[EPS]

Yes any training is better than none but do your research on some of these pop up so-called mma training classes there are lots out there that will try to charge you big money and teach you the same thing you could have got from a $10 DVD

 

[Mister Bisley]

This fine gentleman is a Grade A badazz. I took an introductory course of his up in PA, while living in MD. He knows my uncle pretty well, too. Doesn't really help you here in the PNW, but his style and approach to self defense and hand to hand combat are probably up your alley. Tons of informative stuff on his website and lots of YouTube vids

His credentials speak for themselves as he has trained the following...US Air Force DAGRE (Deployed Aircraft Ground Response Element), Maryland Department of Corrections Special Operations Group and Indiana Department of Corrections. Also NRA endorsed and the official training program of RMJ Tactical.

MODERN COMBATIVE SYSTEMS - Setting the Standard for Personal Protection and Preparedness Training

 

[EPS]

This fine gentleman is a Grade A badazz. I took an introductory course of his up in PA, while living in MD. He knows my uncle pretty well, too. Doesn't really help you here in the PNW, but his style and approach to self defense and hand to hand combat are probably up your alley. Tons of informative stuff on his website and lots of YouTube vids

MODERN COMBATIVE SYSTEMS - Setting the Standard for Personal Protection and Preparedness Training

I'm not putting down any of you guys I'm just putting it out there for others that might read this thread there are lots of great teacher 's it trainer's out there but there are lots of bad ones too

 

[Andy54Hawken]

Another thing to keep in mind ...
Even if you have a excellent system / style that works for you , be flexible in how and what you do if you need to "fight".

Case in point:
We were taught many ways and means of causing hurt and death while unarmed when I was in the Army.
The problem lies in the fact that I am now not in the Army and if I were to do much of what or how I was taught ... I am afraid I'd end up in jail.

No I not saying I'm Billy Jack ...
Just that what works for one place and time may not in others.
I more than likely would not use a move we learned to take down a sentry...
But a blocking move or a move to break a attackers hold is more useful here in civilian world.

Also note the word fight above is in quotes.
I 'm guessing that many if not all law enforcement and or judges take a dim view of fighting.
My thoughts:
In most cases you do not need or want to "fight" ... but to defend yourself , break contact and get away from the attacker / aggressor.

Just my view and I am not saying that I am the end all , be all of this thread.
Please do not read into my comments.
Just saying what works for me ... you all do as you wish.
Andy

 

[Certaindeaf]

I practice Aikido and do not think at all it is easy to learn. Im "getting it"... but honestly suck at it and have been doing it for a while. The thing about Aikido is its based on not harming the attacker but "harmonizing" with his attack, the wicked part of it is if he doesnt know that he harms himself with his own energy and defeats himself. It can be very street effective, but it take a long time to learn how to apply that principal... IMO.

my opinion is if you want to learn some skills quickly, take basic boxing classes. I think Krav Maga or Muai Thai would be very effective street defense skills too but with everything/anything you have to take it for years to be effective you cant just take a few classes and call it good.

That's the thing about traditional Aikido. I think in actual "practice", damaging things should be done to one's attacker once he's been "thrown" or controlled.
If one trains that way and or has that mindset I think it's a dandy skillset.

 

[Certaindeaf]

Another thing to keep in mind ...
Even if you have a excellent system / style that works for you , be flexible in how and what you do if you need to "fight".

Case in point:
We were taught many ways and means of causing hurt and death while unarmed when I was in the Army.
The problem lies in the fact that I am now not in the Army and if I were to do much of what or how I was taught ... I am afraid I'd end up in jail.

No I not saying I'm Billy Jack ...
Just that what works for one place and time may not in others.
I more than likely would not use a move we learned to take down a sentry...
But a blocking move or a move to break a attackers hold is more useful here in civilian world.

Also note the word fight above is in quotes.
I 'm guessing that many if not all law enforcement and or judges take a dim view of fighting.
My thoughts:
In most cases you do not need or want to "fight" ... but to defend yourself , break contact and get away from the attacker / aggressor.

Just my view and I am not saying that I am the end all , be all of this thread.
Please do not read into my comments.
Just saying what works for me ... you all do as you wish.
Andy

Yea, that's something to keep in mind.
If one "enters into combat willingly", I think it's legal speak that one "got into a fight".. that's way different than legally defending your life. So in other words, if you just get into a fight and maim or kill a guy, you're pretty much going to prison.
Good luck to us all.

 

[B3dlam]

NWSDE.com their krav division has a few instructors and at least one in the Portland area.

 

[mkwerx]

I was a practitioner of traditional tae kwon do (Korean adaptation of Shotokan style of Karate, essentially) from the time I was 9 into my 20's. I earned my black belt (3rd degree) and was an instructor. It's a good system, but as it's taught in 90% of schools it is far from complete. And traditional martial arts take a long long time to perfect. It's great exercise, it's great for building confidence and discipline in young folks, and once you've done it for a few years, it's decent for actual practical use. But in the form you find it in most schools - there is almost 0 ground game, and it relies far too much on kicking. Looks great in demonstations, looks great to watch - but all the spinning kicks, jumping kicks, and fancy moves are useless outside of a controlled environment. Front snap kick, front stomp kick, a good solid back kick, and maybe the side kick are about the only real useful, practical kicks. And even then - the targets shouldn't be the head or any higher than the solar plexus - the targets for a kick should be those that will quickly incapacitate the offender - knees, groin, solar plexus. And kicking should be used sparingly. Too many fancy hand strikes in the style as well - again they look cool, but most are useless. Elbow strikes, forearms, hammer fists, palm strikes, and maybe in some instances a knifehand (chop) - punching is not on the top of my list as far as strikes go. I have broken my knuckles too many times doing board breaking demos - and punching someone in the skull is similar to trying to break multiple boards - you're likely to injure your hands. I'll save my punches for soft targets - the side of the neck, the throat, the solar plexus. Hammer fists, palm strikes, and elbows are more effective against hard targets like the head.

It would be good to learn some blocks - but learning to move - to dodge, duck, and not have any contact with your opponents strikes or kicks is better. Let them miss, then rush them with a violent counter attack. If you're going to block - have a counter coming with it. One of the few practical exercises we drilled on - cross block followed immediately with a backfist or hammer fist. It's effective, once you get the hang of it.

Control tactics are very useful to learn - joint manipulation was a big part of what we were taught and IF you can get your opponent in a control hold, you can apply a lot of pressure and pain to gain compliance, and if they get froggy you can easily break arms/hands - but again, it takes a lot of practice getting good to put it to practical effect.

But you need to know how to break out of the control holds as well, and how to fight on the ground.

I dabbled in BJJ a few years ago - work got in the way and I dropped out - but I will caution this - the instructors teaching one method often buy too strongly into the "our way is the best" or "our way is the only way" nonsense. The guy who ran the BJJ class I was in thought traditional stand up arts like TKD, Karate, etc were useless. He didn't think kicking or striking could be effective and thought BJJ ground game was the end all be-all. He left himself open a LOT to strikes. This guy was a BJJ blackbelt - a respectable accomplishment, and his ground game was top notch, but he bought hard into the kool aid. If he couldn't get someone on the ground, he would likely be hurt real quick. I knew too many TKD instructors who likewise thought that fighting in traditional sparring style was where it was at. Likely, they'd ever had any conflict outside the class. My personal TKD instructor had more experience, and once you attained a high enough skill level, would begin to teach other stuff - he incorporated judo into our teachings at that point. He was also a boxer before taking up TKD. He was very, very good and well rounded as a fighter.

Don't rely on one system, or one instructor to show you everything if you really want to become a well rounded, effective unarmed combatant. Krav would be a great starting point.

Try a school out - most will let you take a class or three for free as a trial. Make sure you mesh with the instructor - guy could be a great guy and really skilled, but if his teaching style doesn't suit your learning style, you're wasting time and money. Go into the class with an open mind, then use your reasoning skills to sort out the useful nuggets from the fluff.

Also - set reasonable goals for yourself - don't expect to become an expert fighter in a year. But you can expect to master the basics in that time - and build from there. The fancy crap we did as black belts was all basically the same stuff the white belts did - only faster, more fluidly, with some flourish. It's like learning to shoot - you don't start off with a high skill course doing head shots on moving targets while moving - you start off on a square range with a good solid stance doing slow, controlled fire. Martial arts are the same. And avoid McDojos. Also - be leary of schools that make you sign contracts. BTDT, never again. Not paying for 6 or 12 months if I figure out after a month that I'm not learning what I should be learning, or the instructor just doesn't work and doesn't try to make it work for me.

If you want to learn ground fighting - I'd say Impact Jiu Jitsu in Beaverton would be a good place to look. They have practical as well as game training - and a good cadre of black belt instructors. If you're looking for the traditional karate school - there is a traditional tae kwon do school in downtown Banks, which is a splinter group from the school I used to train with. I have not met the instructors there, but I've seen their videos and website and know some instructors whom they have collaberated with in the past and wouldn't be afraid to try them out. There's also the TKD school I attended here in Forest Grove, and one that holds classes a few times a week at the Elks lodge. I'm sure others on here have good suggestions for other schools, and other styles. Heck - don't overlook plain old boxing - boxing has a lot of real world applications and would be a good foundation to build upon.

Good luck!

 

[Certaindeaf]

I was a practitioner of traditional tae kwon do (Korean adaptation of Shotokan style of Karate, essentially) from the time I was 9 into my 20's. I earned my black belt (3rd degree) and was an instructor. It's a good system, but as it's taught in 90% of schools it is far from complete. And traditional martial arts take a long long time to perfect. It's great exercise, it's great for building confidence and discipline in young folks, and once you've done it for a few years, it's decent for actual practical use. But in the form you find it in most schools - there is almost 0 ground game, and it relies far too much on kicking. Looks great in demonstations, looks great to watch - but all the spinning kicks, jumping kicks, and fancy moves are useless outside of a controlled environment. Front snap kick, front stomp kick, a good solid back kick, and maybe the side kick are about the only real useful, practical kicks. And even then - the targets shouldn't be the head or any higher than the solar plexus - the targets for a kick should be those that will quickly incapacitate the offender - knees, groin, solar plexus. And kicking should be used sparingly. Too many fancy hand strikes in the style as well - again they look cool, but most are useless. Elbow strikes, forearms, hammer fists, palm strikes, and maybe in some instances a knifehand (chop) - punching is not on the top of my list as far as strikes go. I have broken my knuckles too many times doing board breaking demos - and punching someone in the skull is similar to trying to break multiple boards - you're likely to injure your hands. I'll save my punches for soft targets - the side of the neck, the throat, the solar plexus. Hammer fists, palm strikes, and elbows are more effective against hard targets like the head.

It would be good to learn some blocks - but learning to move - to dodge, duck, and not have any contact with your opponents strikes or kicks is better. Let them miss, then rush them with a violent counter attack. If you're going to block - have a counter coming with it. One of the few practical exercises we drilled on - cross block followed immediately with a backfist or hammer fist. It's effective, once you get the hang of it.

Control tactics are very useful to learn - joint manipulation was a big part of what we were taught and IF you can get your opponent in a control hold, you can apply a lot of pressure and pain to gain compliance, and if they get froggy you can easily break arms/hands - but again, it takes a lot of practice getting good to put it to practical effect.

But you need to know how to break out of the control holds as well, and how to fight on the ground.

I dabbled in BJJ a few years ago - work got in the way and I dropped out - but I will caution this - the instructors teaching one method often buy too strongly into the "our way is the best" or "our way is the only way" nonsense. The guy who ran the BJJ class I was in thought traditional stand up arts like TKD, Karate, etc were useless. He didn't think kicking or striking could be effective and thought BJJ ground game was the end all be-all. He left himself open a LOT to strikes. This guy was a BJJ blackbelt - a respectable accomplishment, and his ground game was top notch, but he bought hard into the kool aid. If he couldn't get someone on the ground, he would likely be hurt real quick. I knew too many TKD instructors who likewise thought that fighting in traditional sparring style was where it was at. Likely, they'd ever had any conflict outside the class. My personal TKD instructor had more experience, and once you attained a high enough skill level, would begin to teach other stuff - he incorporated judo into our teachings at that point. He was also a boxer before taking up TKD. He was very, very good and well rounded as a fighter.

Don't rely on one system, or one instructor to show you everything if you really want to become a well rounded, effective unarmed combatant. Krav would be a great starting point.

Try a school out - most will let you take a class or three for free as a trial. Make sure you mesh with the instructor - guy could be a great guy and really skilled, but if his teaching style doesn't suit your learning style, you're wasting time and money. Go into the class with an open mind, then use your reasoning skills to sort out the useful nuggets from the fluff.

Also - set reasonable goals for yourself - don't expect to become an expert fighter in a year. But you can expect to master the basics in that time - and build from there. The fancy crap we did as black belts was all basically the same stuff the white belts did - only faster, more fluidly, with some flourish. It's like learning to shoot - you don't start off with a high skill course doing head shots on moving targets while moving - you start off on a square range with a good solid stance doing slow, controlled fire. Martial arts are the same. And avoid McDojos. Also - be leary of schools that make you sign contracts. BTDT, never again. Not paying for 6 or 12 months if I figure out after a month that I'm not learning what I should be learning, or the instructor just doesn't work and doesn't try to make it work for me.

If you want to learn ground fighting - I'd say Impact Jiu Jitsu in Beaverton would be a good place to look. They have practical as well as game training - and a good cadre of black belt instructors. If you're looking for the traditional karate school - there is a traditional tae kwon do school in downtown Banks, which is a splinter group from the school I used to train with. I have not met the instructors there, but I've seen their videos and website and know some instructors whom they have collaberated with in the past and wouldn't be afraid to try them out. There's also the TKD school I attended here in Forest Grove, and one that holds classes a few times a week at the Elks lodge. I'm sure others on here have good suggestions for other schools, and other styles. Heck - don't overlook plain old boxing - boxing has a lot of real world applications and would be a good foundation to build upon.

Good luck!

That was an awesome post.
For a lot of people/most people, don't overlook basic parks and recreation type basic self defense classes. They come in different levels, as do their other various martial offerings.
With that said, mkwerx touched on something aligned with shooting that crosses over. Perhaps try to focus on/specialize in one "ender" with all of your soul.. and along with shooting proper, it's the simple and lowly draw and hit part that matters. everything else is just drama

 

[v0lcom13sn0w]

Military school as the youngest kid and bigger then most a few years ahead of me taught me an awful lot.

I learned a good punch to the back of the head ends things quickly as does a knee to the front of the head.

 

[Oregon Rob]

This is some really great info you guys have put together. I'm always impressed with the diversity of information I can get from simply asking a question. So much better than Google.

Right now I'm leaning toward the Krav in Beaverton. It's not going to be easy with travel and commitments but I'm liking the approach.

 

[Koda]

That's the thing about traditional Aikido. I think in actual "practice", damaging things should be done to one's attacker once he's been "thrown" or controlled.
If one trains that way and or has that mindset I think it's a dandy skillset.

Thing about Aikido is most throws or pins is going to break bones or joints if the reciever does not know Aikido. You would literally have to be fighting someone who is well trained in either Aikido or traditional Japanese Jiu Jitsu (which every move in Aikido is based upon). This is one reason why it takes longer to learn, you literally spend half your time learning to recieve the attack rather than all your time learning to only attack. You cannot learn Aikido without learning to recieve the attack as well.

 

[Certaindeaf]

Thing about Aikido is most throws or pins is going to break bones or joints if the reciever does not know Aikido. You would literally have to be fighting someone who is well trained in either Aikido or traditional Japanese Jiu Jitsu (which every move in Aikido is based upon). This is one reason why it takes longer to learn, you literally spend half your time learning to recieve the attack rather than all your time learning to only attack. You cannot learn Aikido without learning to recieve the attack as well.

I hear you. But it won't really end it. Originally, these were used to ultimately stick a blade through a chink in an opponents armor on the battlefield.

 

[Ura-Ki]

I have been doing Krav for almost 30 years, and have taken advanced classes in Judo, and Aikido. Andy and other have pointed out several very strong points to consider in the use/application of force and your abilities! I know as I have gotten older, I am not as quick or fast, or strong as I used to be and that I have to be mindful of what I think I can do Vs what I AM able to do! That said, Krav is one of the most versatile of the arts you can learn, BUT I also recommend adding other arts to your skill set as you go! One last thing, IF you find your self in a situation where you need your skills in hand to hand, you really need to be aware of all the options you have available to keep you from killing or seriously maiming some one, The legal aspects will not be fun to have to go through! Think of it like having to use a Carry Gun, same idea as having to use it, YOU become a weapon, and the legal use of that weapon needs to be justifiable or you get screwed by the legal system and held to the same standards!