Had a Double With My Revolver

[kmk1012]

I let a friend shoot my new (to me) S&W 500 magnum today and he pulled the trigger once and it doubled, fired twice! Pretty scary.

Read More

 

[kmk1012]

Upon researching, the recoil causes the hammer to bounce back, rotating the cylinder enough to advance, then because the trigger is still depressed it falls again on a live round.

 

[TTSX]

Hope does that happen with a revolver???

 

[kmk1012]

It happens so fast the trigger is never released.

 

[Greenbug]

My guess is that your friend fired the first shot in single action with the hammer cocked then quickly fired a double action shot while trying to control the recoil.

Not the first time I have seen or heard of this...

 

[kmk1012]

My guess is that your friend fired the first shot in single action with the hammer cocked then quickly fired a double action shot while trying to control the recoil.

Not the first time I have seen or heard of this...

It's appearantly an issue with these because of the recoil. The hammer bounce back is the cause, it advances the cylinder and falls on the next chamber before the recoil impulse is even over.

 

[mrblond]

yeah, 1st time you shoot that thing, only load 1 round. there are alot of vids out showing people touching off 2 rounds like that. There even was a woman killed when a 460 round caught her in the forehead

 

[Velzey]

Isn't it amazing a revolver can cycle that fast?

 

[asbtg]

My local range rents one with the caveat of a single round in the chamber at a time. Their stated reason is the recoil impulse is so intense it causes an involuntary grip, firing the revolver double-action a second time, usually into the ceiling.

 

[Stomper]

It's a hand held Ma Deuce.... pass.

 

[Greenbug]

Nothing to do with "hammer bounce", just human reflex.

 

[RVTECH]

Probably why so many of these show up for sale with 'less than X amounts of rounds fired'
If it ain't an 'all day shooter' then it ain't worth owning!

 

[Certaindeaf]

Was this a used gun with perhaps aftermarket springs installed?

 

[ConcernedCitizen]

It's appearantly an issue with these because of the recoil. The hammer bounce back is the cause, it advances the cylinder and falls on the next chamber before the recoil impulse is even over.

I don't believe hammer bounce back has anything to do with it. In fact, I've never even heard of hammer bounce back.

I have however seen some slow motion videos where they dissected this phenomenon. The second shot is basically nothing more than a double action trigger pull. In fact, it's rather similar to the action of a bumpstock. The weapon recoils rearward, and is then pulled forward into the trigger again.

I personally think it's a matter of improper trigger follow through.

When the gun recoils it pushes directly back into the hand as well as begins to rotate up. If the shooter's grip isn't tight enough and they don't have a very solid follow through on the trigger, the gun recoils back far enough to let the trigger reset even though their finger is still on the trigger.

Considering the massive amount of recoil that is currently trying to rip the gun from their hand, they do they only thing they could in that situation, they do what comes naturally. They clamp their hands down and squeeze harder, attempting to hold on to the bucking pistol. I'm sure you can guess what happens next...

The video that really shows how dangerous the issue can be is the one where the woman almost shoots herself in the head. The pistol rotated upward, she tightened her grip to hold onto it, and the second shot went off almost straight up. I believe it actually rotated more than 90 degrees and almost pointed at her head by the time the second shot went off.

She didn't have enough strength to control the rotational recoil, but she did have enough strength to clamp down on it to keep it from flying out of her hands, inadvertently pulling the trigger a second time in the process.

Honestly, "hammer bounce back" sounds like a lame excuse first used by someone too embarrassed to admit the pistol almost got away from him...

No offense to you or your friend, OP. I just believe this phenomenon is based entirely on recoil and reflex. If you have found any footage in your search that clearly shows hammer bounce back in action, I will gladly retract my entire statement.

 

[SUPER X]

Probably why so many of these show up for sale with 'less than X amounts of rounds fired'
If it ain't an 'all day shooter' then it ain't worth owning!

I know a guy that has one and loads his own ammo to soften it up a bit

 

[ConcernedCitizen]

My guess is that your friend fired the first shot in single action with the hammer cocked then quickly fired a double action shot while trying to control the recoil.

Not the first time I have seen or heard of this...

Nothing to do with "hammer bounce", just human reflex.

Exactly this. The gun recoils back into the hand far enough to reset the trigger while the shooter's finger is still on it, and that's when reflexes kick in and the shooter holds on for dear life.

 

[titsonritz]

Be advised...

"Negligent Suicide" with a .500 Smith & Wesson revolver - Bearing Arms - Missouri, Negligent Discharge

 

[ConcernedCitizen]

I know a guy that has one and loads his own ammo to soften it up a bit

That's funny, because we have a crazy guy here that likes to load 600 & 700 grain projectiles in his!

@FordPrefect, do you happen to have any good videos you can share with us?

 

[kmk1012]

I don't believe hammer bounce back has anything to do with it. In fact, I've never even heard of hammer bounce back.

I have however seen some slow motion videos where they dissected this phenomenon. The second shot is basically nothing more than a double action trigger pull. In fact, it's rather similar to the action of a bumpstock. The weapon recoils rearward, and is then pulled forward into the trigger again.

I personally think it's a matter of improper trigger follow through.

When the gun recoils it pushes directly back into the hand as well as begins to rotate up. If the shooter's grip isn't tight enough and they don't have a very solid follow through on the trigger, the gun recoils back far enough to let the trigger reset even though their finger is still on the trigger.

Considering the massive amount of recoil that is currently trying to rip the gun from their hand, they do they only thing they could in that situation, they do what comes naturally. They clamp their hands down and squeeze harder, attempting to hold on to the bucking pistol. I'm sure you can guess what happens next...

The video that really shows how dangerous the issue can be is the one where the woman almost shoots herself in the head. The pistol rotated upward, she tightened her grip to hold onto it, and the second shot went off almost straight up. I believe it actually rotated more than 90 degrees and almost pointed at her head by the time the second shot went off.

She didn't have enough strength to control the rotational recoil, but she did have enenou strength to clamp down on it to keep it from flying out of her hands, inadvertently pulling the trigger a second time in the process.

Honestly, "hammer bounce back" sounds like a lame excuse first used by someone to embarrassed to admit the pistol almost got away from him...

No offense to you or your friend, OP. I just believe this phenomenon is based entirely on recoil and reflex. If you have found any footage in your search that clearly shows hammer bounce back in action, I will gladly retract my entire statement.

That was the theory that was in an article I read. Your point is well taken but it could be a series of several factors. I watched a slow mo video of one showing the hammer bounce back a good bit. It made sense at the time but after seeing several other videos it's more likely that the second shot was a double action fire. It was almost halfway between horizontal and vertical from where he stood.

 

[kmk1012]

That's funny, because we have a crazy guy here that likes to load 600 & 700 grain projectiles in his!

@FordPrefect, do you happen to have any good videos you can share with us?

My 700 grainers should be here tomorrow or Friday. I guess that I'll load them single shot if I let anyone shoot it again. Seems like a liability.