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Guns targeted. Need legal help.

Discussion in 'Legal & Political Archive' started by twoclones, Nov 21, 2014.

  1. twoclones

    twoclones Tri-Cities, WA Well-Known Member

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    Last night I was served with a "Temporary Protection Order and Notice of Hearing - Harassment". This was filed by the mother of my daughter's rapist, seemingly in retaliation for the restraining order my daughter had filed 4 days earlier.

    I have made no threats. Made no attempt to contact them. Didn't even know the name of the mother or her minor son before reading the temp order. The entire thing would be laughable if she hadn't asked for my weapons to be surrendered. Surrender was not granted in the temp order. I have to appear in court Wednesday morning!

    Anyway, I looked at the Second Amendment Foundation (life member) website but didn't find an attorney in my area (Tri-Cities, WA). After a couple of calls to criminal lawyers, it became obvious I cannot afford a lawyer ($2,500) due to long term under employment. I do have some money saved but no credit card. Similarly, I'm not doing well at finding so much as a referral on the NRA (life member) website.

    I need some help even if it's just advice from a lawyer.
     
  2. 223to45

    223to45 Whatcom Active Member

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    Well first thing, delete this post. Second give your guns to a good friend. Then you can say you have none.
     
  3. Joe13

    Joe13 NW of Vancouver Opinionated & Blunt Bronze Supporter 2015 Volunteer 2016 Volunteer

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    +1
     
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  4. notazombie

    notazombie Hillsboro Well-Known Member

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    You mean the guns you lost in the river last time you went to the boat races?
     
  5. NoFlinch

    NoFlinch In a van down by the river Owner of Cocaine addicted dog.

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    I think there is more to this than the OP is disclosing.

    Having said that, I'd ask for a P. Defender at the trial, so you can figger' this out.

    Why are you depending upon Free services, and "help" from a gun board?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

    This is serious ship dude!
     
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  6. forefathersrback

    forefathersrback Central Oregon Well-Known Member

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    twoclones,
    Sorry to read about your situation. If you have any firearms, and which I'm sure you DO NOT! Be prepared to have a liberal judge slap you with a protection order. Had a friend in a same situation, was slapped with a restraining order that lasted a year. Which by all rights, he should have given the SOB a beat down of epic proportion. As usual the bubblegum BAGS are protected, and victims are not!!!!!
     
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  7. AMProducts

    AMProducts Maple Valley, WA Jerk, Ammo Manufacturer Silver Supporter

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    Since I've been on the other side of restraining orders in the past... first, gut your post

    Second, since you were served with a TRO, you are technically not allowed to possess firearms, so as others have said, remove them before LE does.

    Next, even if you can't afford a lawyer, SHOW UP AT THE HEARING TO ENSURE A PERMANENT RO IS NOT ISSUED!

    When I went to my hearing you get an opportunity to plead your case before a judge, if you have had no contact with the person who put you under this, bring your phone bills, next you need to consider filing a claim of "abuse of process" against them.

    When it comes to going to court, the more paperwork you bring the better. I don't know about WA paperwork, but there should be a form that formally states the complaint against you. This should outline exactly what her complaints are against you. It's pretty easy to get a TRO, and it can be pretty easy to get a permanent RO if you don't show up in court. Do whatever you have to to show up in court and sound like a calm and rational human being, I realize you're probably sweating blood right now you're so pissed, but judges are going to rule based on your behavior. You may want to consider getting a TRO against her as well with the specific line "abuse of process" as your reason.

    http://restrainingorderabuse.com/tag/abuse-of-process/
     
  8. AMProducts

    AMProducts Maple Valley, WA Jerk, Ammo Manufacturer Silver Supporter

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    Also, after doing a bit more reading, you should probably also bring copies of the police reports on your daughter's rape and attempt to make the case that this is strictly a matter of payback. I realize this is a sensitive subject, but do whatever you have to do because this is serious.

    You need to bury the process in paperwork. The more you have, the better you are. Also file a restraining order against them for this harassment... File that on tuesday so she can be served when she shows up in court.

    I think this is going to be a serious mess, be prepared for it. Remember the price of freedom is eternal vigilance.
     
  9. AMProducts

    AMProducts Maple Valley, WA Jerk, Ammo Manufacturer Silver Supporter

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    Since I'm sitting here working on some stuff, I'm still thinking about this...

    I forgot earlier, go and talk to the clerk at the court, he/she may be able to give you some pointers on the judge you are going to see, and may be able to give you some advice on how to deal with this as an abuse of process case. I would also recommend dressing as nice as you can, dig out that tie and if you need to go to walmart and buy a nice shirt do it. Money spent now is cheaper than money spent after.
     
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  10. Doc In UPlace

    Doc In UPlace Tacoma-ish Well-Known Member

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    He who represents himself in court has a fool for a client.

    -Even attorneys hire an attorney when faced with charges.

    Sell something and make it happen. At the very worst, pay for an hour's time with the best criminal defense attorney you can find.

    Mine is $250 per hour, probably cost a lot less out your way.
     
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  11. Nick Burkhardt

    Nick Burkhardt NE Oregon Well-Known Member

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    If he wants to get them back after December 5th each firearm will require a background check and 10 day waiting period.
     
  12. ZA_Survivalist

    ZA_Survivalist Oregon AK's all day.

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    Give them all "away" to a very trusted family member or friend.
    F-those court bastards.

    Id rather my firearms went to strangers or felons then the god damn government, if I was in your shoes.

    That being said, no Ive never willingly sold, given or loaned a firearm to a felon nor plan to.. But I hate our judicial system and would spite them any chance I got.
     
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2014
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  13. scrandall01215

    scrandall01215 Washougal,WA Well-Known Member

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    This exactly what I was going to say.

    You stated you had little in savings. Find the best criminal defense attorney in town and pay for one hr. Of service $150-350 is all it should cost. ( you can't afford not to do this at the very minimum )Bring a pad, pen, and a list of questions because when you get there you"lol forget 1/2 of the ones you thought of.
    Also start writing down any question you think of the second you think of it. ( carry a sm. note pad with you at all times and have it next to you bed at night. Remember YOU WILL forget them )
    All the advise others have written is all very good advise.
    Now gut this thread and if you do every one that posted here should gut theirs as well.
    I have been in a similar situation as this not fun and if you loss you will have life long concquences with your gun rights
     
  14. scrandall01215

    scrandall01215 Washougal,WA Well-Known Member

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    Sometimes a public defender is worse than no lawyer!!!!
    That was my experience with one. Wouldn't return phone calls did nothing to defend me, tried to get me to make a deal with ODHS ( and it was a baseless allegation that's why they eventually lost but it took 4 months ) It was total B.S.
    In fact after it was all over I called him and tolled him what a piece of s**t he was!!!!!!!! Never again!
    Stacy
     
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  15. twoclones

    twoclones Tri-Cities, WA Well-Known Member

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    I have already done a lot of what has been suggested. (thank you for the suggestions). It's pretty frustrating having so little time and half of that taken from me by Friday (lawyers don't appear to work on Friday) and the weekend.

    The complaint against me is based on my frequent sharing on Facebook of news articles about victims who have defended themselves. The Petitioner has submitted 3 screen shots from my Facebook 'wall' showing shared articles to which I made no comment. Same for the Facebook 'event' Gavin Seim planned called "I will not comply! I-594". I have not even clicked the Join button for that. Just shared the event on Facebook.

    I've posted nothing on their Facebook wall. Directed nothing at them. Did not know their names until I read the temp order. Haven't really ever thought about 'she' or her son.
     
  16. SHPD_Retired

    SHPD_Retired Saint Helens Well-Known Member

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    I do not know about Washington but in Oregon if the place for banning you from possessing firearms is not checked then you are good to go. If you contest the restraining at a hearing the court then has to send the order into the Feds and they will bar you from possessing any firearms. If you do not contest the restraining order then the court does not have to send that paperwork to the Feds, however you will still be restrained from purchasing any new firearms. Since this is a civil process you are not entitled to a court appointed attorney, that is only fro criminal matters. You could contest the order and if you win then there is no restrictions on you at all. Good luck.
     
    twoclones likes this.
  17. pdx210

    pdx210 Clackamas Active Member

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    This should be a lesson to people regarding their personal stuff on here, facebook, or any other site and even bumper stickers on your car.

    Washington allows a person to file a civil case in court, asking a judge to grant an order to protect them from another person whose behavior is abusive, threatening, exploitive or seriously alarming

    http://www.kingcounty.gov/courts/Clerk/ProtectionOrders.aspx



    Things I would do other than getting a lawyer which sounds like you are not going to do.

    -Shut your mouth no more posts that could be construed as provocative but continue to post on FB

    -Check her FB (if you are not blocked), twitter and any other social media she and her friends use. Look for anything that indicates this an abusive use of the law and copy it submit it as evidence to the judge.

    -Don't block her on FB yet but set FB preferences so only your friends can see your posts.

    -If you have posted such post as the ones in question on your FB page prior to the rise of this incident capture those and bring them in as evidence to the judge ..this would help you the most. It would establish these are just the type of things you post on your FB page.

    - Bring with you character witnesses if possible or an affidavit from people that know you preferably not a relative or close friend. Asking them for statements to the effect if you have made threatening remarks seem, mad or unstable now or in the past. A coworker or employer seems to be best but since you don't work?

    - Don't get mad or express anger anywhere and certainly not in court, be respectful.

    -IF you have a history.... with the police, violence, domestic abuse, drug crimes, civil judgments ..whatever you will have problems.

    Good luck !
     
    twoclones likes this.
  18. notazombie

    notazombie Hillsboro Well-Known Member

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    Say it -- forget it.
    Write it -- regret it.
     
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  19. deen_ad

    deen_ad Vancouver, WA Well-Known Member

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    < Why they don't have school shootings in Israel.
    Notice the long gun slung over the teachers shoulder?

    Even though 594 says it takes effect on Dec 4th it legally can't due to a clause in the Initiative process that says it can't take effect for 60 days after the legislative session that it passed during has been out of session.

    Deen
    NRA Life Member, Benefactor Level
    "Defender of Freedom" award
    NRA Golden Eagle member
    WAC member


    "Having a gun is like a parachute, if you need one and don't have it you may never need it again"
     
  20. twoclones

    twoclones Tri-Cities, WA Well-Known Member

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    I do plan to try and get a lawyer but I was served on Thursday night and law offices were all closed by Friday noon and court is Wednesday morning. The 2 lawyers I contacted before Friday noon either turned me away (knew the petitioner) or looked at my total 'wealth' then demanded triple. At the very least, I will contact Legal Aid on Monday morning. I'm willing to pay a lawyer but it seems $1,000 doesn't get their attention in this case.

    The protection order prevents me from making contact or surveillance on social media. I will not risk a violation.

    I have never been arrested or even detained. My last traffic ticket was over 20 years ago.
    If I go to the Sheriff's office on Monday, can they give me some statement showing I have no police record?

    FB privacy has been changed to Friends.
    Anger has not been a problem.

    Thinking about character witness... People I've carved custom sculptures for? They're around me for days at a time. Gun club management? Neighbors?