Other State Guns or marijuana? Some patients will have to make the choice

[PiratePast40]

I think people are getting too tied up in the details and are missing the bigger picture. If you don't like guns because some people use them irresponsibly, don't get one, but don't tell me I shouldn't have one because of a few criminals. Same with pot and alcohol. If you don't think you can use them responsibly, don't use them, and leave the rest of us alone. Freedom carries responsibility - it really is that simple.

 

[Bealzybub]

Details? Like being dishonorably discharged from the military without any details as to why maybe?

 

[RailwayMan]

Search didn't turn up any scientific study which concluded smoking pot causes a change in brain chemistry, or results in brain damage. Citation please? Thanks.

 

[Crohnos01]

Search didn't turn up any scientific study which concluded smoking pot causes a change in brain chemistry, or results in brain damage. Citation please? Thanks.

Really? Man I get a bunch of Google hits....I would think that a brain chemistry link would be self evident as getting "high" is the effects of a substance (alcohol, pot, opioids, etc.) on the brain dopamine levels. But yeah here your go:

A Brain on Cannabinoids: The Role of Dopamine Release in Reward Seeking

Google Scholar

Google Scholar

There are more, but those should be enough to verify I am not on a canibus dream myself.

 

[4Freedom]

You must have some different guns than I do. None of mine alter my brain chemistry, whereas I believe it is pretty well established that pot does alter brain chemistry. How much and if the alterations are positive or negative is another discussion. Without that link of brain chemistry alteration, I don't see a logical leap from banning pot to banning guns.

Seriously, alcohol screws your brain up so much more than marijuana.. Should we bring back alcohol prohibition? How did that work out? How many more Al Capones, Meyer Lanskys, Lucky Lucianos, Pabla Escobars and El Chapos do you want to bring to power in this world? Al Capone became so powerful that his influence started to be seen in the highest parts of our American government and if he continued on his path he would have become more powerful than most politicians and already was pretty much in the pockets of a good number of them.


So, marijuana may manipulate some of your brain chemistry? Well, guess what?? The high frequency EMFs and RFs from cell phones can manipulate your brain chemistry. Speaking of cell phones, many more people have been killed from people texting while driving then from gun related deaths and even more than marijuana related deaths. So, should we now ban cell phones since they both can be abused and can alter yoru brain chemistry? At least marijuana is only legal for people over 21, but we have 12 year old kids with developing brains chatting on cell phones for hours and soaking in high amounts of EMF and RF radiation. They have done studies that have been suppressed by huge cell phone corporations that have proven a correlation with reduced brain density and neurological problems, including impaired neurological development for children using cell phones for extended periods of time. Something tells me you are not going to start pushing for an Assault Cell Phone ban anytime soon.

Tobacco and Nicotine.. Ahh,, Nicotine and Tobacco!! There is very loose documentation and unproved statements that marijuana can alter your brain. These have been subjective and are more correlating to the effects of young children or teens using excessive amounts of marijuana and are still up for debate. However, the very legal and FDA approved drug of nicotine and tobacco have had multiple studies proving they alter brain chemistry and these drugs are very legal and may be consumed by many members on this forum. So, since we have proven that nicotine and tobacco do actually alter brain chemistry, unlike your unproved claims about marijuana, should we ban cigarettes and tobacco?

How Your Brain Reacts to Nicotine Is Why You Are Addicted

In fact, alcohol and tobacco have been proven to be much more physically addictive than cannabis, THC or CBD, which are considered to be habit forming , but do not produce chemicals in the body associated with physical addiction unlike alcohol and nicotine.

On this subject , since you are so terrified by the brain altering effects of marijuana, can you show some studies proving the dangers of marijuana users, especially compared to alcohol drinkers? Do these marijuana users commit acts of violence and threaten the well-being of our society?

How much more of my hard earned tax money must I spend on your drug war? How many more young 19 year olds must I pay to be put in prison, pay for their extended lodging, meals and rehabilitation, which doesn't seem to work. Will they be better people now they are felons at 19, cannot work most normal jobs and cannot live in society any more as a normal citizen? Will this help them to be better and sober citizens? How many more children must die in gang related warfare as a result of your drug war? How many more drive-by shootings, drug dealers and drug lords must I support and then support to have law enforcement arrest, bring to trial (which is very, very expensive). Many of them do not even get long-term convictions and if any of them are put away for a long time (which cost our taxpayers lots of money) there usually is another drug dealer or drug lord very quick and eager to take their place.

You are worried about drugs hurting people like marijuana? Please show me the statistics ofhow many people have died form marijuana? Now, how about I show you some statistics of how many people have died in the war on drugs. How many police officers are now dead and lef the ir children orphans. Or what about the little kid riding his bike in the hood and then getting gun down when two drug dealers or cops and dealers get into a shoot-out?


As far as the preson who says I am promoting gun control ideology by comparing weed to guns, that is completely hog crap!! You say guns cannot be condemned as dangerous because they are inanimate objects. I will say that cannabis cannot be condemned because it is just a harmless plant that produces flowering buds that do nothing on their own. It is not what the object or plant does on its own, its what humans do with the object or plant. Ironically, cannabis in the hands of man has not killed anybody, guns have.

However, guns have saved lives and cannabis also has saved lives, because it has many therapeutic effects and has helped people deal with war injuries, PTSD, cancer patients with nasuea and fight many of horrible side effects of chemotherapy. Cannabis is a potent anti-inflammatory and THC, CBD and CBN cannaboid compounds help people with so many conditions ranging from anxiety, PTSD, insomina, migraines, etc without the horrible side effects and physically addictive tendencies of opoids. Guns have saved lives and protect our familes and homes. Cannabis and guns can both be abused as well...

My point is that maybe it isn't even good for you. But, we are suppose to live in a free country , where adults are free to make their own decisions. If a substance is not very addictive and not highly lethal (in fact there is no documented amount of lethal dosage, unlike alcohol, caffeine and nicotine), even if it is not so good for you, we should not have the government dictate who should use it. If that is the case then ban high fructose corn syrup , trans fat and unhealthy foods since they are wrecking more havoc on the well-being of our society and health and wellness of our people than many of these drugs.

But, this is America, a free country, not a facist dictatorship and bureaucracy where government agencis and groups of bureaucrats dictate what we are allowed to put in our bodies. I laugh at the people who shake their fists at Bloomberg for instituting a ban on large sodas (which kill more people than marijuana if you consider diabetes, sugars, etc) , yet then demand we criminalize marijuana and give more power and funding to the DEA.

I say, we legalize all non-lethal or drugs that are not highly lethal and highly addictive and decriminalize most other drugs (like opiates, meth). If we ban guns, will gun crime end? Have wee not learned anything from the past and from our own ethics about government controlling substances and objects we think could be dangerous? When you outlaw guns, only criminals will have guns.. When you outlaw drugs, only criminals will have drugs and you will turn many people into criminals and give power to drug lords, gangs who would have never had any power otherwise.

I guess being a Libertarian I am against a big powerful government regulating every part of our lives and telling us how to live and what is good and safe for us to possess or use. I am sorry that Americans abuse their freedoms and abuse drugs. Americans abuse soft drinks, cigarettes, alcohol , eat donuts, eat food fried in trans fat.. It s all horrible. But, guess what, this is America, a country that use to be free and I support peoples's freedoms! I am against a big bureaucracy regulating every aspect of our lives. I trust Americans to make the right decisions for their well-being more than the government dictating us by force of law as to what is safe for us to consume and own.

 

[RoktJSqwirl]

Checking in on this thread today, I gotta say that I'm shocked at the last few years' shortage of qualified agricultural workers in Eastern Washington.
Especially given all the world-class cherry picking I've read on here. Good Godfrey!!!

 

[RailwayMan]

Makes a lot of sense actually ...

 

[Crohnos01]

Well, looks like I woke up the 420 crowd...

@4Freedom , you are putting a lot of words in my mouth... things I never said or even insinuated and frankly I resent that. My post was in reference to the thought that banning pot would lead to banning firearms. My point was that marijuana DOES alter brain chemistry and I cited studies from the National Institute of Health that support that. Guns do NOT alter brain chemistry (if you think this is incorrect, please cite your sources). If you don't like the fact that your weed screws with your mind and there is scientific studies that support that, I can't help you. I also pointed out that Marijuana is not alone in the ability to alter brain chemistry. Opioids, alcohol, as well as other narcotics, are also able to make those same changes to brain chemistry. Again; reference my cited studies. I don't understand why you are jumping down my throat as if I was insinuating Cannibis is somehow alone in this brain chemistry alteration. Dude...If you want to consider the National Institute of Health as "loose documentation and unproven statements", then any kind of logical discussion with you is going to be impossible.

The good news for you apparently, is that the public opinion that is driving laws in this country will continue to push for marijuana to be legal and as available as readily available as candy. Actually, it's good news for me as well since I will become a valuable commodity as an employee able to pass any drug test at any time, unlike the majority of the population if things keep going in this direction. I notice you are in Denver, so you along with us here in Washington are living in a state leading this legalization move. The data is starting to trickle in however that marijuana is not as benign as you would like to believe. In Colorado, there has already been a reversal to keep new mothers from breast feeding their newborns due to THC being transmitted through breast milk and the results are even worse than fetal alcohol syndrome.

But honestly; this has little if anything to do with firearms. Let's try to stick with the topic at hand and leave the tin foil hat conspiracy discussions for other venues, ok? The EMF discussion, and other topics in your "fruit salad" arguments, while interesting are not in the interest of the participants of this forum.

 

[4Freedom]

Well, looks like I woke up the 420 crowd...

@4Freedom , you are putting a lot of words in my mouth... things I never said or even insinuated and frankly I resent that. My post was in reference to the thought that banning pot would lead to banning firearms. My point was that marijuana DOES alter brain chemistry and I cited studies from the National Institute of Health that support that. Guns do NOT alter brain chemistry (if you think this is incorrect, please cite your sources). If you don't like the fact that your weed screws with your mind and there is scientific studies that support that, I can't help you. I also pointed out that Marijuana is not alone in the ability to alter brain chemistry. Opioids, alcohol, as well as other narcotics, are also able to make those same changes to brain chemistry. Again; reference my cited studies. I don't understand why you are jumping down my throat as if I was insinuating Cannibis is somehow alone in this brain chemistry alteration. Dude...If you want to consider the National Institute of Health as "loose documentation and unproven statements", then any kind of logical discussion with you is going to be impossible.

The good news for you apparently, is that the public opinion that is driving laws in this country will continue to push for marijuana to be legal and as available as readily available as candy. Actually, it's good news for me as well since I will become a valuable commodity as an employee able to pass any drug test at any time, unlike the majority of the population if things keep going in this direction. I notice you are in Denver, so you along with us here in Washington are living in a state leading this legalization move. The data is starting to trickle in however that marijuana is not as benign as you would like to believe. In Colorado, there has already been a reversal to keep new mothers from breast feeding their newborns due to THC being transmitted through breast milk and the results are even worse than fetal alcohol syndrome.

But honestly; this has little if anything to do with firearms. Let's try to stick with the topic at hand and leave the tin foil hat conspiracy discussions for other venues, ok? The EMF discussion, and other topics in your "fruit salad" arguments, while interesting are not in the interest of the participants of this forum.

Sorry, if I offended you.. It is a heated discussion. I support legalizing cocaine as well, does that mean I enjoy doing cocaine? I'd never want to even touch it and I think its a horrible drug for the most part, but not as addictive and deadly as heroin or even prescription opioids, which are actually fueling this heroin epidemic. As I say, I support legalizing drugs that are less lethal and moderately addictive, but not extremely addictive like opioids, meth and fentanyl. I do support complete decriminalization of all drugs though, because I fear drug lords, mafia and funding regimes like the Taliban more than I do junkies.

I actually think people abuse marijuana and even though I do think it has therapeutic effects and does more good than bad, especially for medicinal purposes, I do think people sitting around smoking weed all day are not helping their bodies at all. As far as the whole brain chemistry argument, I feel its somewhat futile, as I am not supporting legalization because I feel marijuana is healthy and makes your body stronger and younger.

However, I feel alcohol is much more dangerous drug tham marijuana and if we will legalize alcohol then we should legalize marijuana, which unlike alcohol even has medicinal effects and no known lethal dosage.

Marijuana is also high estrogenic and using too much can screw up your hormones too and reduce testosterone.. I am not saying it is the perfect shangri-la drug. I am a big fan of moderation with all things that have potential to do harm. Excessive marijuana use also has been found to cause allergic reactions. I am not denying these things. But, if you consume too much of anything you will be prone to allergic reactions.

I am pretty much just supporting the Libertarian party's line of small government and limited control over the decisions that adult, law-abiding citizens make. Throwing people in prison at 18, turning them into felons for possessing some coke or marijuana, also, I feel will do nothing to help these people become better, more respectable citizens, but in fact, turns them into even worse criminals.

As I said, if we are worried about people's health, there are so many vices in our society that we can ban, regulate, etc it is overwhelming. As far as cell phone's damaging people's brains, I would think a source like WebMD, would not be considered some far-out tin-foil conspiracy website.. It is well documented that chidlren's developing brains are susceptible to the high amount of radiation these phones give off.

Children Face Highest Health Risk From Cell Phones

There has also been quite a substantial increase in brain tumors

The Coming Brain Cancer Epidemic - WeeksMD

Also, can you deny that people who own cell phones tend to have the tendency to text while driving? I hate to say even people who are friends of mine will text me while they are driving and while I am driving. It really pisses them off when I call them up and talk them on the phone using good ol fashion voice conversation. THey are like OH MY GOD , why did you call me???? I only text! I am like sorry bro, I am driving, I only do voice calls when driving and sorry I made you strain your vocal chords. I cannot risk splattering a bunch of kids at a crosswalk so we can have a text conversation.

Since people have the capacity to drive under the influence of Texting, should cell phones be banned? Obviously not.. We are responsible adults who should use our objects, fermented beverages and herbs responsibly.

Can guns alter brain chemistry? I guess if you get a good head shot Just a joke

Anyway, I didn't mean to ruffle the feathers here.. Haha, I guess with all the endless demands for people to increase the power of the bureaucracy and government, I tend to find I have an uphill battle fighting for the exact opposite. It is this mentality that is driving our nation to want to ban guns. If we seek to ban one personal freedom , banning another becomes much simpler task.

In Nazi Germany, the politicians convinced the people that the government had to control every aspect of their life and people were convinced that if the government didn't control and regulate every aspect of their life, their nation would have devolved into anarchy and chaos.

If anyone cherishes the 2nd Amendment, they will cherish not empowering the government to control and regulate every aspect of our personal lives.