Guns and work policy

[The Heretic]

I believe this was covered by a law suit brought by an employee of wherehouser several years ago.

Yeah - as I recall (although not sure who was involved), unless it is something like a government installation, they really cannot tell you what you can and cannot have inside your personal vehicle, even if you are in/on a private parking lot. They can't search it either.

Not going to say to the OP that he shouldn't have said anything, but given the fact that he keeps the firearm in his vehicle, why even bother? Why make such a big deal out of it if it has no impact on the employer or workplace. Now, if he ever admits to anybody that he has a firearm in his vehicle on company property he may be subject to disciplinary action and even though it is legal then he has the choice of taking them to court or not.

This could have all been avoided by just not sharing that he had a firearm in his vehicle.

I never mention the fact that I even own or shoot firearms at any workplace. I try real hard to avoid any discussion about firearms, politics, religion or sex at work.

There is always someone at almost any workplace that is anti-gun, and most anti-gun people view gun owners with suspicion, fear and sometimes even hatred. I have seen gun ownership be a factor in whether people got laid off - although it was never admitted and I am sure the employer would deny it.

When you carry concealed you don't go around announcing to the world that you are carrying a firearm - do you? Why, in this day and age, would you, of all places, announce to an employer, that you have a firearm in your vehicle and then get into a further discussion about not carrying it in the workplace??

 

[The Heretic]

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=can+my+employer+search+my+personal+vehicle

I am not a lawyer, much less an employer specializing in workplace issues or gun rights, but basically I believe you are pretty safe legally if you:

1) keep your firearm in your vehicle out of sight and do not let anybody see you handling it in the vehicle.

2) never say anything to anybody at work about the firearm in the vehicle.

3) do not carry the firearm while on company business - such as visiting a client or on a service call or something like that. the employer does have the right to enforce this rule.

Naturally an employer can still do illegal things - like asking to search your vehicle, but unless it is a company vehicle, you do not have to comply, even though the vehicle is on company property. They may fire or discipline you for that, but then you have the right to sue them for wrongful termination.

 

[Certaindeaf]

You might as well ask permission/inform every single store/establishment that you are packing before entering.. "Hey, I'm packing a pistol! is that OK?". lol

 

[Koda]

You might as well ask permission/inform every single store/establishment that you are packing before entering.. "Hey, I'm packing a pistol! is that OK?". lol

this pretty much sums up the whole "being honest" debate on this topic. Non-disclosure is not the same as lying. As for actual lying Ill never judge a man as being dishonest for lying to protect a lawful right in fact I will consider him a patriot.

 

[The Heretic]

OTOH, I could be wrong about the law.

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=weyerhaeuser lawsuit personal vehicle guns

But I don't believe I am wrong about whether a person should say anything about guns at work. The simple fact is that if the OP had kept this info to himself he would not have this problem now.

http://www.ehs-support.com/wp-conte...-on-bringing-weapons-on-employer-premises.pdf

http://www.mrcolionnoir.com/law/guns-in-the-parking-lot-bringing-them-to-the-workplace/

 

[jluck]

this pretty much sums up the whole "being honest" debate on this topic. Non-disclosure is not the same as lying. As for actual lying Ill never judge a man as being dishonest for lying to protect a lawful right in fact I will consider him a patriot.

Non disclosure is the same as lying when there WAS no " law", rule or policy? With no rule there's nothing to disclose or hide.

 

[RicInOR]

My inner a-hole says - ship yourself some stupid package that needs a knife to be opened.
Get someone to produces said box cutter etc
Say loud enough for the entire office to hear - That's a Weapon - they brought 9-11 with those !


I know, I wouldn't really do that. But over broad policies are bad too.

 

[The Heretic]

Non disclosure is the same as lying when there WAS no " law", rule or policy? With no rule there's nothing to disclose or hide.

Even if there is a rule, how many people here would walk into a posted public property ("no guns") while nonetheless carrying concealed? Quite a few. How many of those people would feel compelled by "honesty" or "integrity" to then announce they are carrying concealed?

How many people daily break traffic laws? Do they all then go and turn themselves in to the nearest traffic cop?

I strongly value honesty and integrity, but I still ignore some rules and even laws, and I don't feel compelled to bring the attention of authority to that fact.

Fortunately for me, my employer of record does have a policy prohibiting "weapons" (including firearms) on the company premises, but the offices where I work are not owned by them - it is a public office building with a parking area shared by other corporations in the same building, so I am not in danger of them trying to enforce that rule with regards to searching vehicles for anything. Indeed, I have never heard of them searching vehicles, even at their headquarters where they *do* own the parking lot. I've never worked for an employer (except for the military) where that was the case.

YMMV

 

[Koda]

Non disclosure is the same as lying when there WAS no " law", rule or policy? With no rule there's nothing to disclose or hide.

Not certain I understand what your asking but no. If there is no law or rule prohibiting the action then there is no need to disclose your carrying to keep honesty.

 

[jluck]

Even if there is a rule, how many people here would walk into a posted public property ("no guns") while nonetheless carrying concealed? Quite a few. How many of those people would feel compelled by "honesty" or "integrity" to then announce they are carrying concealed?

How many people daily break traffic laws? Do they all then go and turn themselves in to the nearest traffic cop?

I strongly value honesty and integrity, but I still ignore some rules and even laws, and I don't feel compelled to bring the attention of authority to that fact.

Fortunately for me, my employer of record does have a policy prohibiting "weapons" (including firearms) on the company premises, but the offices where I work are not owned by them - it is a public office building with a parking area shared by other corporations in the same building, so I am not in danger of them trying to enforce that rule with regards to searching vehicles for anything. Indeed, I have never heard of them searching vehicles, even at their headquarters where they *do* own the parking lot. I've never worked for an employer (except for the military) where that was the case.

YMMV

I absolutely agree. Alas that is NOT what this thread is about from what I can tell

 

[jluck]

Not certain I understand what your asking but no. If there is no law or rule prohibiting the action then there is no need to disclose your carrying to keep honesty.

Bingo! I think we're on the same page.

 

[RicInOR]

Stuff happens.

I work on a campus of a large employer - so I am subject to their rules even though I am not employed by them. And even though I don't get a copy of the rule book.
(They had a no weapons policy, which got clarified to include partially, blades over 3". Of course they have scissors in the supply cabinet with longer blades. )

At a local range, another person who does work for this large employer, did something stupid, went outside for a smoke and left his pistols on the range. To compound the issue, he got into words with the manager. The person wasn't just some random dude, he was known and had a bad day, but due to circumstances the police were notified. The cops called the security of the large employer - you would expect that, right - guy with gun is having a bad day ...

Years ago, in the 90s at the campus I am currently working, some less than bright individual was stealing from the large employer. But being smart, he kept the loot in his car. One day he has words with another and the police get called. While people are talking out the issue the cop notices the loot. Says to the local security guy - this yours? I can't find it - as it is in a locked car and all. The security guy looks says, yep and breaks the window, and the security officer finds the stolen loot.

If you are going to have a weapon in your car, keep it secure and out of sight. If you are having a bad day, and you are entitled to do so, go some place private - like your own home - to work it out.

 

[John H]

I am looking for legal positions that may be there since this is my "personal" vehicle and do drive to and from work in it. There will be times I have to visit customers in my "personal" vehicle so where is the line drawn about how far a company can go to restrict my rights?

Well here is another mistake, coming to the internet for legal advise. Go see a Lawyer.

 

[The Heretic]

Workplace idiots are not hypothetical. As in one of the articles, one of the arguments for the employer searching vehicles is that people get emotional at work. I have noticed this, many people get stressed at the workplace - their job is on the line, as is their income.

I knew one guy who had to have a restraining order against him because he kept showing up at the workplace after being fired for incompetence. He wouldn't let it go and kept trying to contact people there. He demonstrated other cluelessness about the fact that he wasn't wanted there, including trying to apply for a job which he was totally unqualified for, after he was fired.

I have seen people angry and/or crying after being laid off.

While I try my best at work, it is just a job - some are better than others, but when the day ends I go home and try to not think about work. If I get let go, I let it go and move on - but many people can not.

Personally, in most jobs, I see no reason for a person to be carrying in any fashion on the job. I can see being able to carry between the office and the car - but employers who facilitate that are as rare as hens teeth.

 

[keithte]

First I would like to apologize to anyone that may have been offended by my responses. In my defense was not expecting so many initially saying I should have "shut my mouth" and went into fight or flight mode! The responses were nothing I had thought of and probably responded the wrong way and again apologize for this.

Secondly, I truly appreciate and respect others thoughts/opinions on what happened and will take away that I screwed up but hopefully someone else in my position will see this thread and not make the same mistake.

I wish the clock could be turned back and would have come here first for thoughts on how to proceed with the situation. I do not regret what I did in anyway and believe my thoughts/actions were appropriate given the circumstances. I NEVER let anyone I know that I carry, none of my co-workers don't have a clue and when carrying in public my weapon is totally concealed. I was recently talking to cops at an outdoor festival and they never had a clue I was carrying so am extremely discrete.

Thanks again for the feedback and will live with the current circumstances and sleeping at night will not be a problem

 

[etrain16]

Yes, you did get some rough responses. I wasn't intending myself to make you feel bad, just to express my thoughts on it. I think some folks may have benefited from the content of this thread in the event they find themselves in a similar situation, so perhaps some folks have learned something important.

You make a good point, you have the opportunity to come here before you make a decision like that in the future and get a feel for how others here would handle the same situation. Believe it or not, many folks are here to help