guns and weed

[unklekippy]

To own guns is legal and a right.


To make home made wine and spirits is legal ( in many states).
To grow tobacco is legal.

Most people do not make home made products, like wine or grow tobacco.
However the harm to the body by both is clear when abused.

My take whether popular or not is "WEED" falls right under many growing and creation guidelines.
I see no reason "weed" should be part of the drug war as like Tobacco and wine also serve other benefits
just like "weed" does.
Is Marijuana a gate way drug? It is about as gateway as playing Yahtzee is to being addicted to playing craps at the casino .
You will always find people who will abuse and misuse what they have be it guns, wine or cars. Laws should be in place for the laws broken, not the item they used to do something with thats about as stupid as it gets. It like hey lets build a fence to keep illegals out, but only built it part way then blame everyone else when they get in WHAT ????

Rant Over !

I'm with until the Yahtzee comparison. People DO NOT snort cocaine before smoking a joint. It simply does not happen. Well, I'm sure in the history of the world it has happened, but I would venture the numbers are something like 10 million people that smoke pot first, to every one person that snorted coke first. People try pot when they are in their teens(generally). They then move up to "heavy" drugs when the excitement of the pot wears off. Most kids are apprehensive about drugs, even if they want to do it and that is why something "soft" is what is started with, to work your way up. It's a very simple process. Sort of like how raging alcoholics don't start out like the movie "Leaving Las Vegas". They have to develop a taste for the intoxication before they possess the need to down 3/4 of a bottle of vodka at 6am.

People have a hard time admitting that something so harmless can lead to other things. I never would have put ANYTHING up my nose or in my arm when I was 16. By the time I was 21, the novelty of pot wore off and it was time to move on.

I am responsible for me and mine. You are responsible for you and yours. I would never arm my son with anything but the truth so that he may make truly educated decisions when it is time. Telling him that pot won't lead anywhere and waiting for bad bubblegum to happen would be doing him a disservice. I will concede that pills can take the place of pot as that gateway drug in today's world. Kids need an apparently "soft" drug that seems harmless to open the door to "hard" stuff. Think of the term "downward spiral". Everything has a starting point.

 

[jluck]

Where is the double talk from any of my posts? I have stood my ground and not wavered. No one has a right to tell me what to(or not to) smoke, drink or eat. I will deal with problems on my own(hence the "will not call police" statement made earlier) and will ask for no government interference. ESPECIALLY(I spelled it right for you) when it comes to my family.

Any time that you can point out what is confusing about my posts, or what is not clear about where I stand, I will gladly listen. If you realized that you are wrong and changed your mind about "having trouble finding the point of (or what side of the debate people are on) of many posts.", please then stop quoting my posts in your confusion.

My stance is very clear, no matter how many people try to distort it, get called out on their BS and then simply stop responding when the idiocy has been pointed out. You're barking up the wrong tree over here. Are there any other crystal clear statements that I can clear up for those that can't follow a simple conversation?

Well it looks like myself along with the others who were smart enough to stop engaging your posts are just not on you intelligence level. I will sit in the corner with the daily dunce cap on.

I was not pointing out your posts specifically of a would said so. Yes when it comes to regulation and government interference there is a vast majority that has split points of view.

And yes the way I read some of your posts, it appears to my inferior brain you will kill ("done it before...we know, we know). To protect freedom and not ever encroach others except in certain areas.

This is rather rhetorical (wow look at that big word from me) post. I don't expect you to understand.

 

[unklekippy]

Well it looks like myself along with the others who were smart enough to stop engaging your posts are just not on you intelligence level. I will sit in the corner with the daily dunce cap on.

I was not pointing out your posts specifically of a would said so. Yes when it comes to regulation and government interference there is a vast majority that has split points of view.

And yes the way I read some of your posts, it appears to my inferior brain you will kill ("done it before...we know, we know). To protect freedom and not ever encroach others except in certain areas.

This is rather rhetorical (wow look at that big word from me) post. I don't expect you to understand.

Now you're just another liar. If you weren't pointing to my posts, why would you have quoted my posts? Trying to wiggle out doesn't change what is there for all to see. There is a vast majority that has split views, but again YOU pointed out MY posts, not the other way around. Pretending that pointing out the errors in folks response is the same as being "smart enough to stop engaging" is ridiculous. You had no problem engaging until you were proven wrong, then you decided it wasn't worth your time. Those tactics are old and tired.

Of course I will kill someone that threatened my child's life. That doesn't make me some sort of killer that has no moral principle, just a Father. At any time, please point out where I would encroach on others freedom. All my posts have supported freedom. If you think you have the "freedom" to push dope on my 10 year old, that would be the case where I would put a stop to someone's "freedoms".

I understand all that you have typed. I have corrected you and the others that blatantly misrepresented my posts. Trying to turn it into something that is simply "beyond my grasp" shows how pathetic your argument is.

Can you actually back anything up with fact and not assumption or flagrant lies?

 

[U201491]

My name is Joey Link. I'm 26 years old and live with my girlfriend in West Linn, OR. After living in the ghetto for 25 years (N and NE Portland), I finally decided to move as far away as possible within 20 minutes of the city. I own Skyline Technology Solutions, a small computer repair and consulting company. If I had to pick one passion in life it would be politics, though I also enjoy firearms (obviously), cigars, cars, motorcycles, and bourbon. Life is getting better every day

 

[U201491]

Not sure where that post came from, but cool.

How did Joeys post come up as a quote??? The reply was to another.??? Just puzzled

 

[watchman]

Now you're just another liar. If you weren't pointing to my posts, why would you have quoted my posts? Trying to wiggle out doesn't change what is there for all to see. There is a vast majority that has split views, but again YOU pointed out MY posts, not the other way around. Pretending that pointing out the errors in folks response is the same as being "smart enough to stop engaging" is ridiculous. You had no problem engaging until you were proven wrong, then you decided it wasn't worth your time. Those tactics are old and tired.

Of course I will kill someone that threatened my child's life. That doesn't make me some sort of killer that has no moral principle, just a Father. At any time, please point out where I would encroach on others freedom. All my posts have supported freedom. If you think you have the "freedom" to push dope on my 10 year old, that would be the case where I would put a stop to someone's "freedoms".

I understand all that you have typed. I have corrected you and the others that blatantly misrepresented my posts. Trying to turn it into something that is simply "beyond my grasp" shows how pathetic your argument is.

Can you actually back anything up with fact and not assumption or flagrant lies?

Take it easy Francis!
Lots of people are wrong on the Internet....

 

[Tomas204]

Alcohol kills more people than any of the controlled substances, and it is a drug that is freely sold and consumed, but OK from our leaders/conmen

 

[Tomas204]

I'm with until the Yahtzee comparison. People DO NOT snort cocaine before smoking a joint. It simply does not happen. Well, I'm sure in the history of the world it has happened, but I would venture the numbers are something like 10 million people that smoke pot first, to every one person that snorted coke first. People try pot when they are in their teens(generally). They then move up to "heavy" drugs when the excitement of the pot wears off. Most kids are apprehensive about drugs, even if they want to do it and that is why something "soft" is what is started with, to work your way up. It's a very simple process. Sort of like how raging alcoholics don't start out like the movie "Leaving Las Vegas". They have to develop a taste for the intoxication before they possess the need to down 3/4 of a bottle of vodka at 6am.

People have a hard time admitting that something so harmless can lead to other things. I never would have put ANYTHING up my nose or in my arm when I was 16. By the time I was 21, the novelty of pot wore off and it was time to move on.

I am responsible for me and mine. You are responsible for you and yours. I would never arm my son with anything but the truth so that he may make truly educated decisions when it is time. Telling him that pot won't lead anywhere and waiting for bad bubblegum to happen would be doing him a disservice. I will concede that pills can take the place of pot as that gateway drug in today's world. Kids need an apparently "soft" drug that seems harmless to open the door to "hard" stuff. Think of the term "downward spiral". Everything has a starting point.

Alcohol is the #1 gate way drug ............................................

 

[Tomas204]

A gate way drug truly does not exist but is societys way of justifying spending billions on prevention to be accurate in this post, the person has to have an addicted compulsion to begin with. It is not true that Alcoholism is heriditary, but prone to addiction is in the form of compulsion.
The Sate of Oregon in its wisdom pays out millions to recovery each years, while there is free services already out there.
The addiction is in the mind not the wallet

I am going to disagree with you on the alcoholic/addict is not hereditary it is proven, and because many people grow up in that environment it is hereditary ie: heritage family influence I know quit a few alcoholics in and out of recovery and 99% have some sort of family history in this JMHEO

 

[unklekippy]

I would like to be clear that this thread stared on "illicit" narcotics, not stuff you can buy at 7-11. Alcohol is so much worse than pot and the only thing crazier than the denial of natural progression(that theory there possesses all the "gateway" principles. Think about it.), is to state that pot is worse than alcohol. I wasn't using alcohol as an example because it is, while restricted, legal.

Anyway, unlike some on this thread, when proven wrong I will not lie until my lies don't work and then disappear. Please, someone point out an area in this country, or even just one or two people that used heroin or cocaine BEFORE they smoked pot. I have been waiting for that answer since this debate got blown out of hand and am still waiting. Not wanting it to be true doesn't make it so.

Compare it to training wheels. That bike is scary. Once you get rolling with the trainers, it's smooth sailing. After a while, the trainers don't do it any more and they slow you down. You want something that makes you FAST. So you take off your training wheels to make that "natural progression". It's a very simple process and an obvious path. I don't know what more there is to say. Remember, I'm not an anti. I want it all available for any idiot that wants to throw his life away. I believe you have the right to do that as long as it does not tread on me and mine. That doesn't change human nature or the natural order of things. We start small and work up to bigger and better things in all aspects of our lives.

 

[One-Eyed Ross]

The tendency towards alcoholism IS hereditary, there are enzymatic reactions that (don't) take place that help influence a person's tendency towards alcoholism. Added to that is the learned behavior - and some people have problems.

(Not all alcoholics have alcohol and aldehyde dehyrogenase deficiencies, and not all people with enzyme deficiencies become alcoholics).NIAAA Publications

ADH and ALDH genotypes in relation to ... [Alcohol Alcohol Suppl. 1994] - PubMed - NCBI
NIAAA Publications

 

[Kevinkris]

I would like to be clear that this thread stared on "illicit" narcotics, not stuff you can buy at 7-11. Alcohol is so much worse than pot and the only thing crazier than the denial of natural progression(that theory there possesses all the "gateway" principles. Think about it.), is to state that pot is worse than alcohol. I wasn't using alcohol as an example because it is, while restricted, legal.

Anyway, unlike some on this thread, when proven wrong I will not lie until my lies don't work and then disappear. Please, someone point out an area in this country, or even just one or two people that used heroin or cocaine BEFORE they smoked pot. I have been waiting for that answer since this debate got blown out of hand and am still waiting. Not wanting it to be true doesn't make it so.

Compare it to training wheels. That bike is scary. Once you get rolling with the trainers, it's smooth sailing. After a while, the trainers don't do it any more and they slow you down. You want something that makes you FAST. So you take off your training wheels to make that "natural progression". It's a very simple process and an obvious path. I don't know what more there is to say. Remember, I'm not an anti. I want it all available for any idiot that wants to throw his life away. I believe you have the right to do that as long as it does not tread on me and mine. That doesn't change human nature or the natural order of things. We start small and work up to bigger and better things in all aspects of our lives.

i have met one person who told me she hated pot but was addicted to heroin for years in the 70's. i grew up with her daughter and i dont know her to be someone who inflames her stories. i didnt know she was a former drug addict either though.

 

[MrNiceGuy]

Everyone knows the REAL gateway drug is juice....
That sugar rush leads to the harder stuff, like sugared cereals... Eventually you're onto the coke or pepsi train. Once that caffeine kicks in you're hooked! Coffee, mountain dew, 5 hour energy drinks... Those are the things that get a kid through middle school. From there it's only a few steps before you're onto meth and super crank.

Face it, have you ever had a long and meaningful conversation with one crank-head who didn't drink juice BEFORE he/she started with the crank?

That coffee you drink in the morning, that's just one slip up away from full blown speed addiction. Compare it to training wheels. That bike is scary. Once you get rolling with the trainers, it's smooth sailing. After a while, the trainers don't do it any more and they slow you down. You want something that makes you FAST. So you take off your training wheels to make that "natural progression". It's a very simple process and an obvious path. I don't know what more there is to say.




The gateway argument is the KING of strawman arguments.

 

[Kevinkris]

too bad logic isnt used in everyday debates like that.

 

[One-Eyed Ross]

I once read a study done on heroin addicts that was done in the late 40's, early 50's. 85% of all the addicts were breast fed, ergo, mother's milk was the gateway...

 

[U201491]

What Is really making me scratch my head, is why is there a "Weed" topic surviving on
a pro second Amendment forum. That has to be winding up the libs to the point of spasms.....
These threads and comments go out all over the net on the searches

 

[One-Eyed Ross]

Because many of us believe in the whole Constitution, not just some of the parts.

 

[U201491]

Because many of us believe in the whole Constitution, not just some of the parts.

As do I...... but it is still humorous.

 

[Kevinkris]

What Is really making me scratch my head, is why is there a "Weed" topic surviving on
a pro second Amendment forum. That has to be winding up the libs to the point of spasms.....
These threads and comments go out all over the net on the searches

actually its because the discussion started as a comparison of gun rights and consumption rights in the documentary posted in the beginning. i am surprised to see so many conservative people humoring the idea of legalization though.

 

[unklekippy]

Everyone knows the REAL gateway drug is juice....
That sugar rush leads to the harder stuff, like sugared cereals... Eventually you're onto the coke or pepsi train. Once that caffeine kicks in you're hooked! Coffee, mountain dew, 5 hour energy drinks... Those are the things that get a kid through middle school. From there it's only a few steps before you're onto meth and super crank.

Face it, have you ever had a long and meaningful conversation with one crank-head who didn't drink juice BEFORE he/she started with the crank?

That coffee you drink in the morning, that's just one slip up away from full blown speed addiction. Compare it to training wheels. That bike is scary. Once you get rolling with the trainers, it's smooth sailing. After a while, the trainers don't do it any more and they slow you down. You want something that makes you FAST. So you take off your training wheels to make that "natural progression". It's a very simple process and an obvious path. I don't know what more there is to say.




The gateway argument is the KING of strawman arguments.

So, oxygen is the ultimate gateway drug. I win. Comparing juice to narcotics isn't quite the same, is it? Is water "addictive", or just necessary for survival? Your argument isn't even an argument and is completely ridiculous. Your comparison is like saying smoking starts with inhaling car exhaust.

The juice to crank jump is the stupidest thing in this thread yet. Well done. Some drugs actually do lead to others, unlike fruit juices and I would suppose, by the same principle, baby food. More nonsense that gives folks denying the truth an "out".

It's gotten to the point where we are just repeating ourselves over and over. Bottom line, my son hopefully won't go down that path because he will be armed with the truth and knowledge about drugs. I will allow him to make his decisions when it is time, but I know that if he doesn't smoke pot, he will be about 99.9999% sure of never putting a needle in his arm or recycling someone's hubcaps for a bag of meth. If he does smoke pot, that door is in fact open and I won't ever pretend that somehow that isn't the case. That's that. I'm not opening this ridiculous circle of denial again.