Gun vs Knife vs Karate in real world self defense ( especially for women )

[David Bowman]

This was a gun problem. She made an unwise choice in how she wanted defend herself. Even Rhonda Rousey isn't going to be able to fight off a determined man who has decided he is going to take what he wants.

Testosterone makes men stronger, makes their bones heavier and combined with adrenalin, puts men head and shoulders above women when it comes to physical combat. Many people (both men and women) have no idea the amount of sheer physical energy and power it takes to beat someone into submission (or death). So kicking boards and punching the bag, while a good workout, only develops mindset. Time better spent SHOOTING them.

The only thing that puts women on equal footing with men is having a gun AND the will to defend themselves to the death. One without the other is useless.

The ultimate fight stopper is a series of smoking holes in the torso and face of the bad guy who didn't do a proper victim assessment.

 

[DuneHopper]

The bottom line is use what you can use to the best of your ability.
Chances are if you are a blackbelt yet never really used a gun, you will in all probability get shot with your own gun that you think will save you. Likewise if you like to watch Walker Texas Ranger, and never took self defense and think you can round house a knife outta someone hand instead of using the firearm you could also end up hurt or dead. The type of martial I took was Kenpo which is basically street fighting from its core. Its not a pretty fancy art, its a oh crap i'm gonna die what do I do now kinda art. But people need to be comfortable with what they can do, if you cant fight or shoot but can run like cheeta maybe that will save you. How many when walking to their cars think about that large key they have with them, I do as I may not have time to get to my CC, you have to use what you have available and are confident you can use to help eliminate the threat. Its a good topic but very few answers will fit everyone. Find what you can do best and then make sure you can use it in varied situations. I highly recommend everyone CC, and learn how to use a firearm, you may never need it. But if you do.............well.

 

[amassoc]

I mentioned (more or less) in another thread just this evening: when (most) girls (or women) execute martial arts on a guy (like me: strong with an exceptional pain threshold) it's mildly annoying, but mostly it just tickles.... sorry ladies, but it's mostly true.

As for her not owning a firearm, and assuming she had the prevailing "Eugene attitude", I suppose she died "morally superior".

I mentioned (more or less) in another thread just this evening: when (most) girls (or women) execute martial arts on a guy (like me: strong with an exceptional pain threshold) it's mildly annoying, but mostly it just tickles.... sorry ladies, but it's mostly true.

As for her not owning a firearm, and assuming she had the prevailing "Eugene attitude", I suppose she died "morally superior".

- This seems a little harsh. I do not care what attitude athe deceased may have had, it seems a little flippant and dismissive to say that she died feeling morally superior. She was more than likely terrorized - end of story. I'd hate to have her poor family read your insensitive post.

 

[etrain16]

Since we don't have the whole story on what happened, it's pretty hard to say if anything could have been done to save her life (apart from people knowing this guy was a threat, getting him locked up, but I digress) without knowing more of the circumstances.

Could she have improved her chance of survival with a gun? Yes. Is that a guarantee? No. I believe that most people, when suddenly confronted with a violent aggressor, even with some training, will shut down or at the very least be too confused to know what to do next. The attacker has already thought this through, even if just a little, so he has the upper hand.

Anyone can be caught off guard. Armed police sitting in their car. Security guards. Military. Anyone, regardless of training, can have momentary lapses in awareness that can cost them their lives. My guess is that she had a false sense of security due to her karate training and the burglar alarm. And that's a big problem with a lot of people - they are under the very mistaken impression that someone else will keep them safe. And they are largely wrong.

In the end, the best we can do is give ourselves as many advantages as possible, in the hope that our advantages will supersede the advantage of surprise and violent force the bad guy brings. No one wants to walk around, especially at home, on 'alert', but we need to be aware that violence can find us anywhere and any time. In her case, she already knew she was under a potential threat, and, at least in my opinion, didn't take that threat nearly seriously enough. That cost her her life, and that is sad. But even more sad is that few people will learn a lesson from this story and will make the exact same mistake

 

[Stomper]

- This seems a little harsh. I do not care what attitude athe deceased may have had, it seems a little flippant and dismissive to say that she died feeling morally superior. She was more than likely terrorized - end of story. I'd hate to have her poor family read your insensitive post.

Is this a tragedy? You bet it is. Does it anger me that this happened? Of course it does. Do I feel for her son and her family? HELL YES!

But... If you'd read what I said in the context of the thread discussion (hint- general 2A attitude in Eugene) youd've seen that the comment wasn't directed at her, but rather a condemnation of the well known prevailing anti-2A attitude and delusional view on how the world really works that arguably contributed to her violent death.


I stand by my comment.

 

[Hybrid Slave]

I mentioned (more or less) in another thread just this evening: when (most) girls (or women) execute martial arts on a guy (like me: strong with an exceptional pain threshold) it's mildly annoying, but mostly it just tickles.... sorry ladies, but it's mostly true.

As for her not owning a firearm, and assuming she had the prevailing "Eugene attitude", I suppose she died "morally superior".

My mother used to tell me that the only "right" accomplished by a person who dies as a result of adherence to flawed principles (such as a person who confidently walks into a cross walk because they know that the "pedestrian always has the right of way") is being "dead right".

Better to be illegally alive than "dead right", I say.

 

[U8395279]

Is this a tragedy? You bet it is. Does it anger me that this happened? Of course it does. Do I feel for her son and her family? HELL YES!

But... If you'd read what I said in the context of the thread discussion (hint- general 2A attitude in Eugene) .

Anti-gun feelings in Eugene are indeed very strong. Every mother's day, the Million Moms and Ceasefire Oregon organize a large match to demand tougher gun laws in Oregon. Eugene's Mayor Piercy has often spoken in favor of new gun legislation at these and other political rallies. Local newspapers here gave the Umpqua shootings massive, non-stop attention.

Although, strangely, all news coverage of the Umpqua shootings stopped after Obama's visit. Both nationally and locally. We still don't know what nation the shooter's mother was born in, or whether she is a Muslim or not. Or what connections her son may have had to reactionary Islam. Or even why this family was allowed to immigrate to the USA in the first place.

No one has even investigated to see if immigration fraud had been committed. After all, the couple had been married only a short time, and separated just a few months after coming to America. Yet, they waited many years before finally filing for divorce. Even the wikipedia article about the shooting makes no mention at all that his parents were foreigners. It even mistakenly states that the shooter was born in Los Angeles, when in truth, he was born in England. It almost seems like the media does not want facts about this family to be known.

So if we still don't know many basic facts about such a major case as the Umpqua tragedy, I honestly don't hold out very much hope that we will ever learn the full details of this sad incident either.

.

 

[Hybrid Slave]

I'm not the most experienced at it but I'm a big believer in martial arts. I agree its not the end all solution, but neither is the gun if that's your only tactic. It makes no sense to me to walk around with a gun if you don't have the skills to physically retain it. Guns are not up close contact weapons and we live in an up close world where criminals often use furtive movements to close the gap. In my opinion I put more value in martial arts than the gun because there are more situations where physical defense is more likely than armed defense. Guns are just tools and don't forget that if your gun doesn't solve the problem your still in a fight.

I agree to a point, depending upon the school/instructor. Even many martial arts schools can do the pathetic dance with political correctness, using phrases like self confidence, physical fitness, self discipline in the office rather than telling a parent or other potential customer that they will learn to crack knee and elbow joints, shatter cranial bones, crush wind pipes, and cave in sternums.

As a youngster, in the late 70s, my mother put me in a martial art school that advertised itself as a Tae Kwon Do school. But once in the office, the stout ex South Korean military officer in his 40s who retired and moved to the states to become a hard working, leather palmed construction man during the day, made absolutely no play on words when he told my mother exactly what he would be teaching me, and that it was more than just "tournament style" Tae Kwon Do (really just a marketing thing for him), but rather, what he referred to as practical street survival.

He warned that lessons would be painful (but controlled) and that we were required to work out (weights and calisthenics) there and on our own because what he taught REQUIRED A MINIMUM AMOUNT OF PHYSICAL STRENGTH in order to execute effectively. To this day, he is one of the most realistic and practical instructors I have ever known.

Sure, we learned all the fancy, pretty kicks and forms, but those were mostly just long warm ups. After that, things got ugly; I mean from biting and head butting to fish hooking eye sockets, using fingers to rip off noses to shoving a hand completely down a throat and grabbing both top and bottom of the mouth and literally ripping the jaw apart, and even as far as literally jumping up and down and stomping on a mans rib cage (mostly for the ladies) in order to completely obliterate a larger opponent.

This fire plug of a man taught savage brutality that was meant to keep the soldiers under his command alive on the battlefield when things got up close and personal. He didn't teach "fair play", but rather, anything goes when it comes to surviving an attack from some wife beating or rapist POS.

He always stressed, more than anything else, THE STATE OF MIND. I could never hope to be anywhere near the instructor that he was, and I am still searching for a comparable school/instructor which to send my kids.

Believe it or not, outside of the school, he was the most jovial man you'd ever meet, and extremely loving and tender to his wife and kids, and a consummate gentleman.

Unfortunately as years went by, and political correctness and the "kinder gentler" stupidity started to grow, his enrollment began to wane. Upon visiting him after my graduation from basic training, he explained to me (in his still very thick Korean accent) that in order to keep the school going, he began to water down his approach due to the candy *** attitude of parents who inquired of the school.

Unfortunately, such seems to be the state of so many attitudes these days.

 

[amassoc]

Is this a tragedy? You bet it is. Does it anger me that this happened? Of course it does. Do I feel for her son and her family? HELL YES!

But... If you'd read what I said in the context of the thread discussion (hint- general 2A attitude in Eugene) youd've seen that the comment wasn't directed at her, but rather a condemnation of the well known prevailing anti-2A attitude and delusional view on how the world really works that arguably contributed to her violent death.


I stand by my comment.

Oh, I'm sorry I did not realize you were privy to her individual beliefs and state of mind. Again - sorry.

 

[Stomper]

Oh, I'm sorry I did not realize you were privy to her individual beliefs and state of mind. Again - sorry.

Again.... I never said ANYTHING about her personal beliefs, how the hell could I? Maybe she DID own a gun, but it wasn't readily accessible...

One more time... because apparently you can't read what's WRITTEN, even with an CLEAR explanation of what I was getting at. It was an indictment against the prevailing anti-2A attitude down there in hippy-dippyville because they don't really care about people getting beat to death... just so long as they don't have a bubblegumming gun in their possession, because it makes the rest of us "safer"'in their warped logic... NOT HER LOGIC, because there's no record (to date) of her stance.

Agree or disagree with my method of making a point, but what I said about their attitude (the majority of people in the city of Eugene) in GENERAL... is true.

 

[U8395279]

the prevailing anti-2A attitude down there in hippy-dippyville

Some of the hippies in Eugene are getting to be pretty old, like this couple from the city:


.

There are still young people living in communes in the city. Here is artwork inside one local commune, that condemns nationalism. We are all supposed to be brothers and sisters of the earth. Having love for a nation like America is considered to be evil.





I grew up in the '50's and 60's myself, so the mindset here is rather alien to me. I am not sure how so many people got to be this way.

 

[Stomper]

So... dude has a weed necklace, and dudette literally has a bubblegumin' goatee.... Whoa.

I bet they smell reeeaaaalll nice, too.

 

[Koda]

ask them if you can buy them a Starbucks....

 

[Stomper]

ask them if you can buy them a Starbucks....

Would they go into a 15 minute diatribe about evil corporate coffee, or something?

 

[Koda]

Would they go into a 15 minute diatribe about evil corporate coffee, or something?

if you were lucky it would only be 15 min rant. Few years ago they tried to burn down a new Starbucks put up in SE Portland with a Molotov cocktail. Didnt do much damage tho.

 

[Stomper]

They probably drank most of the contents before they got around to throwing it, and it sputtered.

 

[Koda]

they are so full of peace and love they probably didnt know how to make one and filled it with patchouli oil....

 

[No_Regerts]

At least where I work, we are not able to strike back. Unfortunately its becoming standard in law enforcement - its called PanAm
P - perceived threat
A - Attempts to descalate
N - Need for force
A - Amount of force used.
M - Medical aid / follow up offered.
Every thing you do must be clearly documented and justified. Know how police gilds / union's fight body cams? Try working in a jail with nearly 400 cams. Every contact you have with inmates is recorded.

Do you work in a juvenile or tribal facility? I got my start in prisons and we didnt have anything but keys, cuffs and radios. I definitely know the feeling of being on DVR everywhere with hug-a-thug admin. Even with that, we were allowed to use whatever means necessary once someone became physically combative. PM me if you dont feel like putting it up on the thread.

 

[amassoc]

Again.... I never said ANYTHING about her personal beliefs, how the hell could I? Maybe she DID own a gun, but it wasn't readily accessible...

One more time... because apparently you can't read what's WRITTEN, even with an CLEAR explanation of what I was getting at. It was an indictment against the prevailing anti-2A attitude down there in hippy-dippyville because they don't really care about people getting beat to death... just so long as they don't have a bubblegumming gun in their possession, because it makes the rest of us "safer"'in their warped logic... NOT HER LOGIC, because there's no record (to date) of her stance.

Agree or disagree with my method of making a point, but what I said about their attitude (the majority of people in the city of Eugene) in GENERAL... is true.

Let me truly apologize for baiting you a bit. I do agree with the your general summary of the prevailing attitude of people who choose to live in the people's republic of Eugene. My point was only this - can't we choose a different example than someone who brutally lost her life ? I have been involved in too many of these cases.

 

[Stomper]

Let me truly apologize for baiting you a bit. I do agree with the your general summary of the prevailing attitude of people who choose to live in the people's republic of Eugene. My point was only this - can't we choose a different example than someone who brutally lost her life ? I have been involved in too many of these cases.

No worries, and hopefully I showed that I wasn't being flippant, or caviler about the poor lady's death. It really is a bubblegumming shame... another young boy grows up without his mother. Why don't these "tough guys" look someone like me up when they feel the need to (attempt) to beat someone up?

Unfortunately trying to impress upon the "unwashed anti-2A masses" the REAL value of firearms is nothing more than "intellectual master-debating" that can be "what if-ed", and "why didn't", and "but, but, but-ed" away until the COLD HARD REALITY is presented in the form of physical examples.

Ideologies and philosophies tend to be dropped by the wayside when one is actually faced with mortal danger... exemplified by the saying, "there are no atheists in foxholes during combat".