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Gun trade gone sour. What would you do?

Discussion in 'General Firearm Discussion' started by bt97006, Jun 19, 2010.

  1. bt97006

    bt97006 Aloha Member

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    I'm not sure this has come up before on this forum but I thought I would ask for opinions on this matter. I don't wish stir up any ill feelings, make accusations or put blame on anyone. I'm just looking for advice. Well here is the skinny and I guess its more of a moral question...

    So I listed a revolver for sale or trade. It was an older revolver. It was in working order and finish was decent. I had owned it for about 10 months and shot it maybe 2-300 rounds through it. At one point the mainspring did break and I replaced it with an aftermarket wolf mainspring which I fully disclosed in my classifieds ad. I gave all the details I knew about it and its condition, providing pictures at many angles and answering anyone's questions to the best of my knowledge. Firing the gun before and after the spring replacement showed no signs of timing or indexing problems that I have the knowledge to diagnose. It functioned fine for me but was just not my favorite and I wanted a 357 instead so I put it up on the forum to see if there was any market for it. I had a someone offer to do a trade for my gun if I threw in some ammunition on my end. We sent each other some messages back and forth discussing the details and answering each others questions and everything looked good. Well I accepted his offer we both drove an hour each way to meet each other in the middle, met and inspected each others guns, shook hands and made the trade. I was happy and I assumed he was as well as we both were being honest and getting what we wanted. Well I get a call from the guy now and he said he took it out and shot the gun and it was giving him problems. He said it was not indexing properly and skipping chambers when he fired it. Problems that I had never experienced with it nor have the knowledge to know what would cause them or what he had done to it. I try to be an honest person and make fair deals and I wish every one to be happy on both sides. I think my trade ratings on the forum reflect that. I'm trying not burn anyone but now he wants to do trade backs. I understand his side of it as well if it did indeed start acting up the first time shooting it then there would be some concerns. I'm not too thrilled at the idea of getting back a broken gun when it was working when it left my hands. I think we were both aware that it is an older gun and not to be expected to be perfect but it functioned fine for me and I answered his questions about it honestly beforehand so he knew exactly what he was getting. I guess my questions are should I just buck up and take it back and try to fix it myself to avoid any bad karma? Try to find a fix for him so he can get it working? Or tell him a deals a deal and sorry I can't help ya? If it were your shoes, what would you do? Also what are some of your ideas as to what might cause a revolver to skip chambers?
  2. Outrider

    Outrider Oregon Active Member

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    Regarding the skipping of chambers- He could be short stroking the trigger. If the shooter didn't let the trigger go all the way forward before pulling the trigger again, he can get the cylinder to rotate but the trigger won't reset and break properly. In essence, the shooter can make the revolver cycle past the next chamber by improper trigger technique.

    I'm not saying that is what is happening. The revolver and shooter are not in front of me. However, I have seen some shooters induce the problem and it looks like it's the revolver when it's really the shooter.
  3. toobigtofail

    toobigtofail PDX Member

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    If you think that this person is being honest when they say that the gun didn't perform as you described when you made the deal I'd say that you probably should take it back.
  4. motoman98

    motoman98 Gresham, OR Active Member

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    My 2c: If you are certain that it was functioning properly when you gave it to him, I would consider it a done deal.
    But, to be fair, you might suggest he have it analyzed by a 'smith to see if he knows what he is talking about. Then see what you both think. (Could be buyers' remorse)
  5. dragonsden73

    dragonsden73 Salem, Oregun Active Member

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    I've made MANY trades in which I kick myself for...never once have I thrown a fit over my poor judgment and ask to trade back, yadda yadda yadda. (At least not so serious as I was having a REAL issue with the other party involved.) I've "lost" a lot of money by trading something I have $900 into for a gun worth $600-$700. The way I look at it, if I agree and shake hands it's a done deal.


    If both parties are well-known with a lot of positive feedback, and there is a problem with a firearm, there may be some "play" and understanding, and an agreement can be made.

    Guess you gotta ask yourself.....is there really a serious problem with the gun you traded? Or did the other person make a not-so-sensible trade on their part and they are trying to recover from their "loss"?

  6. rvmichael

    rvmichael Eugene, Oregon Member

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    BT, I've sold 20 million in product through the internet in large ticket items and over 250K in small consumer items, only had one ask for a refund...and only gave him an exchange, as I know he was trying to scam me. It's business.

    You have 25 transactions....you....have no choice but to trade back, if you do, the benefits are all in your favor. The loss to you would be....$...? Good luck BT!
  7. MountainBear

    MountainBear Sweet Home, OR Well-Known Member

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    I would negotiate with him to perhaps give him some money to help him get it checked out by a competent gunsmith. I had an issue with this a while ago on a different forum where a gun had been blown out to an improved version of an already obsolete cartridge. I negotiated with him and ended up giving him about 1/6 of the value back to help him get some dies. Both parties ended up happy.

    There are some people who will always find a reason to be unhappy. There are also jerks on this forum as well as others who act without a properly calibrated moral compass. That's the risk we take...
  8. Kimber Custom

    Kimber Custom Vancouver, WA Bronze Vendor Bronze Vendor

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    I tend to agree that he should take it to a gunsmith to have inspected. If there's no problem then it's all on him. If there is something wrong personally I would cover the whole repair. At the very least be willing to go half way.

    One way or the other it should be inspected by a third party.

    Interesting note on the shooter being able to cause skipping chambers. I have had that problem with my FIL's Dan Wesson. Skips chambers frequently when I shoot it. Flawless for him.
  9. SiegGeringer

    SiegGeringer Snohomish Co WA Member

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    Well, it was an FTF exchange....and one reason why I insist upon those. You can look at it, dry fire it, check the crane and frame and other components for visible damage etc. I don't see how it's much different than a car.....most people can't predict when a component will go bad, within reason. A starter or alternator might work fine one day, die the next. He had a chance to inspect and dryfire if not fire before trade.

    On the other hand, if the issue is real and damage, I can see his frustration certainly. I'm inclined to think it might be a situation like Outrider mentioned.
  10. Gunner3456

    Gunner3456 Salem Well-Known Member

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    Forgive me, but I searched back in your posts and it looks like it was basically a Smith double action?

    As others have said if you short stroke the trigger it will do that. Dirt under the extractor star will do that. Ask him to check those things and try it again.

    There's a remote chance that the hand spring is broken.

    Or, he could have buyer's remorse.

    It's your call. If I sell an older gun I specify no warranty but still it's whatever feels right to you. I never want to leave anyone unhappy.
  11. bt97006

    bt97006 Aloha Member

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    I am sure the gun worked before. I just took it out not too long ago and shot a box through it before cleaning it and deciding to post it up in the classifieds. If I was aware of a problem I would not have passed it off on someone else. That is not how I operate. I like the idea of getting a gunsmith involved to diagnose the problem. Offering to go in halves for a smith to check it out sounds like a fair first step. Perhaps it is an easy and inexpensive fix, maybe he or I did something unintentionally to induce it, I don't know. I do want to make it right, so I will see what the other guy thinks about sharing the expense of at least finding out the extent of the problem and we can go from there I guess.
  12. shibbershabber

    shibbershabber Vancouver Well-Known Member

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    I say its a done deal.

    I looked at the ad and it seems that you went to great length to describe it in detail as well as several photos.

    Its all personal responsibility, he had a chance to check it out, including the opportunity to dry fire it in order to test its function.
    Sucks for him, but he had every opportunity to pass on the deal.

    Ive done hundreds of private deals online, including many on this site. Some deals just arent what you thought they'd be after you get home. But thats life.
  13. Gunner3456

    Gunner3456 Salem Well-Known Member

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    I'd ask him to dry fire it and make sure he isn't short stroking it, and check that there's not dirt such as powder residue under the star extractor before I suggested a gunsmith.

  14. glockguy

    glockguy Albany Oregon Well-Known Member

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    I bought a 99 Jeep grand Cherokee a few years back.. drove it for 3 months and POW what do ya know as im leaving work one fine afternoon I blow the #7 Rod, so in short....I blew the engine, why i have no clue, up until then it ran great fluids were right on and everything.. SOOOOO What do I do with a car im still paying on? take it in the A** and get ANOTHER $3000 loan to put a new engine in it. It pissed me off but I made the deal so I had to deal with it.

    SOO in other words.. you traded you made a deal... Tell him to drive out to your place and you two take it shooting, if YOU see the problem happen infront of you.. Then do what you wish, but i wouldnt waist your time unless hes willing to come to you.
  15. Kanewpadle

    Kanewpadle Washington Member

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    As the other poster said, the buyer should have checked the gun over before buying. The symptoms would have shown up then. If the buyer doesn't know how to check out a revolver then it's his gun. He should learn to do so.

    Let him take it to a reputable gunsmith. If the gunsmith confirms the problem then try to work something out with the buyer. If the gunsmith finds nothing wrong then the buyer should pay the gunsmith himself.

    If the gunsmith found that those exact problems were true, I would trade back but let the buyer pay the gunsmith. No different than having to pay a mechanic to inspect a used car before you buy it.

    Involving a gunsmith may help in determining if it is buyers remorse.
  16. 22many

    22many PNW Well-Known Member

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    Sounds like a done deal too me. As stated in earlier posts, He had every chance to inspect it when the deal was made.

    Ive sold many things online and in the classifieds. Everything from houses to handguns. I usually try to take care of the other person but most times I dont want the product back just because I dont know what the other person has done to it. Who knows, he could have tried to modify it and now it doesnt work like it was suppose too.
  17. sprice37

    sprice37 Albany Oregon Active Member

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    The deal is done. If you believe you sold him good product, and/or gave full disclosure on any known problems there is no reason to renig on the deal.
  18. BillM

    BillM Amity OR Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    An hours drive? I would probably trade back.

    Another possibility is to have him take it to a mutually agreeable
    gunsmith on his end, and offer to split the cost with him up to a
    agreed upon limit.

    DA revolver skipping chambers. I'm going to bet it shoots fine single
    action and slow fire double action, but skips on fast double action
    firing? If so, it's gum/crud/dirt/or thick oil/grease on the cylinder stop,
    or a weak cylinder stop spring. Cylinder is blowing by the notch before
    the cylinder stop snaps back into place. Could also be a timing problem
    with the cylinder stop releasing late, but I'm betting on the biggest
    problem with old revolver malfunctions--dirt in one of it's many forms.
  19. HalfNutz

    HalfNutz Kirkland (Juanita) Member

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    For me and my conscience, I'd do as others have suggested and meet w/the guy at a range and shoot it... see if you can induce the same problems. If a problem exists, I'd then be willing to pay all or part of the repair costs.
  20. tattoo

    tattoo NorthWest Active Member

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    My transactions include an AS IS statement in the receipt.
    You never know how things are going to be handled after it leaves your hands.
    You have to live with your own continence with things like this.
    Good luck.