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gun test lol

Discussion in 'General Firearm Discussion' started by Just Jim, Jan 15, 2011.

  1. Just Jim

    Just Jim Well-Known Member

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    At another site I have an argument going with people who say the congresswomen and people shot couldn't have been protected if the police had been there. So to open up points of view I offer this test so you can tell me if you think an officer would have been able to return fire and protect some of the victims in Tuscon.

    Shooter is 22 and has no known skill at arms, is a doper and has a new gun. He gets close enough to open fire and hits 20 targets that are moving in panic or diving to the ground or sitting behind the table. He fires 30 rnds

    After timing yourself figure out if a cop had been standing next to the Congresswoman as he should have been would lives have been saved? Point is I am angry that two Oregonians were shot in the massacre. Cops should have been there. Could they have stopped some of the killing?

    jj
     
  2. mjbskwim

    mjbskwim Salmon,Idaho Well-Known Member

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    I'm afraid to say it,but I think there may have been some friendly fire,kind of a melee going on if there wasn't a cop right next to the guy.

    I read an article about a bank robber who went into a bank and killed three people with one shot each.
    They asked him if he had training.He said no.He just pointed and shot.
    That can happen ,I guess,since the drugged gunman is fairly relaxed.

    I can't believe there wasn't some type of official security.That just seems stupid.
     
  3. The Cheese

    The Cheese somewhere special Member

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    Even a plain clothes officer or 2. Wouldn't have taken much. Would have looked like business as usual, little security. At the very least a couple lives could have possibly been saved if the officers were close enough. There is a lot of if's in this kind of speculation, but I am sure have at least one or 2 security personal there, uniformed or otherwise, would have been better than none at all
     
  4. buick455

    buick455 se portland Member

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    NOT to knock the cops but most of them spend less time practicing with their guns than we do. What I wish was that a couple of citizens with CCW's would have been there then some of this tragedy could have been avoided and without cost (our tax dollers) for armed security, either we want to pay for cops and security to follow all our reps all the time or we don't. Bet this wouldn't have happened like this at a Ron Paul Ralley.
     
  5. Just Jim

    Just Jim Well-Known Member

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    It was Pima countries area yet no officers were there to protect a Congresswoman and a judge though the Sheriff says he knew there was alot of political hate going on. Would there have been less killing if an officer was on each side of her watching the crowd?

    jj
     
  6. eriknemily

    eriknemily Tillamook County (Cheese!) Member

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    Or would the cops have been the first shot? Remember the cops shot in Washington last year. I think they should just make it a crime to shoot people. That that'll stop all this ;)
     
  7. clearconscience

    clearconscience Vancouver, WA Well-Known Member

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    I tend to disagree.
    I think the presence of Officers plain clothes or uniform woul have made a difference. Officers may not have been able to old west style draw and fire ending all the tragedy, but officers to have quick reflexes and possibly could have jumped the guy, grabbed the gun, or at least one could have drawn his weapon and fired before the wacky got even a few shots off. Maybe it would have urged the shooter to shoot the cops first, if one cop goes down the other would have reacted, maybe giving him enough time to get a shot off.
    I know that the shooter could have gotten 10 shots of by the time one could draw a gun, but it's less likely with a inexperienced gunner. IF, I do say If the cops were on their toes. Which might not have been the case in a lot of instances.
    Either way the chances of the shooter killing 6 people or harming 13 would have been lowered.
    It still boggles my mind why a congress person would be in public without armed security. Especially in a state with such high controversy over the last couple years.
     
  8. andreys21

    andreys21 Milwaukie, OR Active Member

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    I believe there should be some kind of security force present at any gathering where a politician or a high profile person present or speaking. I always understood that there was always some security present but I guess I was wrong.
     
  9. mjbskwim

    mjbskwim Salmon,Idaho Well-Known Member

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    Are you using your Dad's account?
    Seriously
    It is a crime to shoot people,but that does not deter murderers at the least.
     
  10. pokerace

    pokerace Newberg Well-Known Member

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    I don't think police would have helped. If any thing there would have been more dead.(friendly fire)
     
  11. mattg521

    mattg521 portland.,or Member

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    And here I was thinking he was being facetious.
     
  12. Swedish K

    Swedish K SW Washington Moderator Staff Member

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    are you contradicting one of my favorite t-shirts? "Some people are alive simply because its illegal to kill them"

    While I believe that more armed citizens or a security detail may have reduced the death/injury count, I cant help but wonder if there would be a higher body count because of mistaken identity shootings. Say a dozen or more of the citizens in the crowd were packing, the bad guy starts shooting and one or two respond quickly shooting the bad guy, others in the crowd are slower to react and by the time they decide to pull their gun to defend others they engage the first person with a gun in the area the shooting started mistakenly thinking that they were part of the assault. Not saying it would happen that way but mistakes like that could happen.
     
  13. mjbskwim

    mjbskwim Salmon,Idaho Well-Known Member

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    Well I can't spell that word and my mom doesn't like me saying it
     
  14. Mark W.

    Mark W. Silverton, OR Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    but his gun shot hundreds of rounds a min how could they defend against that?






    and for those of you in the Bud tonight that was sarcasm
     
  15. salmonriverjohn

    salmonriverjohn N.W Oregon coast, Gods country Well-Known Member

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    :thumbup:

    Exactly what I was thinking, there are no signs saying "I'm a good guy" on their shirts. Initial reports stated there were two shooters. It would be a very hard decision to make. Then suppose you draw and dispatch the bad guy,,, and become the next target yourself, it could turn into a far worse situation real quick. One may be able to ascertain the original shooter, but once that's accomplished and other weapons are drawn?? I'm just saying.
     
  16. The Quiet Man

    The Quiet Man rural Washington County, Oregon Active Member

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    Why? Is a politician's or high profile person's life worth more than yours? Is security automatically provided when you go someplace?
     
  17. Just Jim

    Just Jim Well-Known Member

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    I believe if the police had been there they may have saved some civilian lives. The sheriffs department wasn't there and blamed talk radio and Sarah Palin for the shooting. Guess they needed to point fingers to hide their own responsibility.

    jj
     
  18. ak56

    ak56 Carnation, Wa Active Member

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    +1
     
  19. Just Jim

    Just Jim Well-Known Member

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    Good point, then why carry a gun at all?

    jj
     
  20. The Quiet Man

    The Quiet Man rural Washington County, Oregon Active Member

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    If the police where everywhere, there would be very little crime. But they haven't ever been, aren't, and never will be everywhere. The police (or any government "authority") are NOT responsible for the safety of individuals. You are responsible for your own safety just as everyone else is. The same goes for politicians and "high profile persons" with very few exceptions.