Northwest Gun Stolen from Vehicle - is Owner Responsible for a Shooting?

[RX-79G]

we covered this circular argument already but who said anything about leaving an unlocked gun in a car?

Not gun in locked car, but locked gun in locked car.

Which is all the OR law calls for - a trigger lock or locked case.

 

[RX-79G]

I have an annoying lefty cousin & you're starting to sound like her-- just an observation, not critiquing your work

And you sound like every gun forum guy who can't put together a cogent argument and settles for ad hominem. Just saying.

You could have saved a lot of typing by just callling me a troll.

Back to the groupthink.

 

[billdeserthills]

And you sound like every gun forum guy who can't put together a cogent argument and settles for ad hominem. Just saying.

You could have saved a lot of typing by just callling me a troll.

Back to the groupthink.

OK, smell ya later

 

[RX-79G]

Are you aware the ATF considers safe handgun storage in a gun store to be inside a glass case?

The glass in my car is at least as good as that of a federally required storage method--seems like that should be good enough

Your gun store has glass cases full of guns parallel parked on the street overnight?!

Great point.

 

[billdeserthills]

Your gun store has glass cases full of guns parallel parked on the street overnight?!

Great point.

Never read about a gun shop a car was driven into?Those cases get cleared out in minutes

I knew a fellow dealer & he got hit 3 times before he moved to a 2nd floor shop

'Later' came around sooner than I had expected

 

[RX-79G]

@RX-79G rather than continue your circular arguments I have a fair question for you. Rather than spending the energy and resources enforcing new laws that make the victim liable we spend the same energy doubling the consequences for the criminal?

I already addressed that. What is douvle the sentence for a 10 year old? What sentence does a schizophrenic fear? If prison is so bad, why is recidivism so high?

No, heavier sentences are completely ineffective on much of the population we're talking about. Young, stupid or crazy - not able to understand consequences. Like animals.

 

[Koda]

billdeserthills point is exactly why blaming the victim is an anti-gun position. Any level of security can be defeated.

 

[billdeserthills]

billdeserthills point is exactly why blaming the victim is an anti-gun position. Any level of security can be defeated.

In my field I have seen a lot of theft, hell I used to be a thief

 

[RX-79G]

Never read about a gun shop a car was driven into?Those cases get cleared out in minutes

I knew a fellow dealer & he got hit 3 times before he moved to a 2nd floor shop

'Later' came around sooner than I had expected

What does this have to do with car prowls? Who is driving into a building break a car window?

Does this really seem to apply to you?

 

[billdeserthills]

What does this have to do with car prowls? Who is driving into a building break a car window?

Does this really seem to apply to you?

Koda already pointed out what I meant above--you sound overstimulated, isn't it time for you to start breathing into your bag now?

 

[RX-79G]

billdeserthills point is exactly why blaming the victim is an anti-gun position. Any level of security can be defeated.

Then don't lock your car, leave the windows down and gun on the dash. It's all the same, right?

 

[RX-79G]

Koda already pointed out what I meant above--you sound overstimulated, isn't it time for you to start breathing into your bag now?

Nice personal attack. But this kind of exchange takes very little thought for me. I'm watching tv and having dinner

 

[Koda]

I already addressed that. What is douvle the sentence for a 10 year old? What sentence does a schizophrenic fear? If prison is so bad, why is recidivism so high?

No, heavier sentences are completely ineffective on much of the population we're talking about. Young, stupid or crazy - not able to understand consequences. Like animals.

Were talking about crimnal intent, victim liability for crimes committed with guns here, not accidental or negligent discharges such as a 10yr old. "young , stupid or crazy" does not make up the criminal element. Longer sentences are effective, its an established fact that if someone is behind bars they cannot commit "gun violence". More circular arguments, sorry but in 6 pages of debate youve presented no valid reason to put the blame on the crime victim and present a lot of fallacies and anti-gun positions.

 

[Flopsweat]

As far as guns not logging millions of hours I disagree. By design, just owning one and having it available is using it for its intended purpose. Its not really a true analogy to compare usage by hours of activity.

...

If we equate wearing a gun with driving a car, I think an awful lot of hours get logged on a carry gun. A lot of us spend 18 hours a day strapped. Not a lot of us spend 18 hours a day in a motor vehicle. 126 hours a week packing vs maybe 4 driving. I know there are still more drivers than carriers but it's the proper way to compare.

 

[Koda]

Then don't lock your car, leave the windows down and gun on the dash. It's all the same, right?

except nobody's suggesting that. The consequence of irresponsibility is the loss of the item, its also worth noting that there are already gross negligence laws that can be enforced in these situations, so at the end of the day Im still not gonna blame the victim for the criminal action of the thief.

@billdeserthills its true that ad homenems dont win debates. This has otherwise been a pretty civil debate.

 

[RX-79G]

Were talking about crimnal intent, victim liability for crimes committed with guns here, not accidental or negligent discharges such as a 10yr old. "young , stupid or crazy" does not make up the criminal element. Longer sentences are effective, its an established fact that if someone is behind bars they cannot commit "gun violence". More circular arguments, sorry but in 6 pages of debate youve presented no valid reason to put the blame on the crime victim and present a lot of fallacies and anti-gun positions.

Long sentences keep criminals off the street longer, but they have to victimize someone AND be caught for that to happen. How many arrests will it take to empty the streets with a homicide clearance rate of just 58%?

That's so miserable I just assumed you were talking about deterance sentencing, which also has poor stats.

Either way, the OR law addresses both juveniles and adults who are able to get guns easily due to poor storage. It doeant matter what their intent is if you care more about preventing people becime victims or assinging blame after their dead.

What's with blame being the only thing that matters?

 

[RX-79G]

except nobody's suggesting that

it has repeatedly been suggested that the level of security is immaterial because someone else is at fault.

 

[billdeserthills]

Long sentences keep criminals off the street longer, but they have to victimize someone AND be caught for that to happen. How many arrests will it take to empty the streets with a homicide clearance rate of just 58%?

That's so miserable I just assumed you were talking about deterance sentencing, which also has poor stats.

Either way, the OR law addresses both juveniles and adults who are able to get guns easily due to poor storage. It doeant matter what their intent is if you care more about preventing people becime victims or assinging blame after their dead.

What's with blame being the only thing that matters?

Weren't you blaming the homeowner earlier for getting their gun stolen?

 

[billdeserthills]

except nobody's suggesting that. The consequence of irresponsibility is the loss of the item, its also worth noting that there are already gross negligence laws that can be enforced in these situations, so at the end of the day Im still not gonna blame the victim for the criminal action of the thief.

@billdeserthills its true that ad homenems dont win debates. This has otherwise been a pretty civil debate.

I wasn't aware we were debating, besides I find it tends to 'fire up' the other guy, often helping him look even dumber than normal-- not that troll-guy needs any help, of course

 

[RX-79G]

A lot of us spend 18 hours a day strapped.

I wear a tritium watch 18 hours a day. Am I a highly experience nuclear materials expert?

You get credit for handling the gun, not passively having it on you.