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Gun Show Private Sales

Discussion in 'Legal & Political Archive' started by enjr4, Feb 24, 2011.

  1. enjr4

    enjr4 Renton, WA Active Member

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    Do all private sellers at, say, a Washington Gun Show have to be residents of Washington? :confused: I have never asked anyone at a show where they live. So I am just asking the question.

    If it is against the law, who is breaking the law? The buyer or the seller or both? According to what I KNOW about the law (I admit, not much) the buyer has no responsibility to get ID from the seller. I do know that it is against the law for me to go to another state and buy a handgun, but what about someone coming to and WA and privatly selling one

    Please, all chime in,
    Ed
     
  2. wired

    wired Yakima Well-Known Member

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    It is not legal to sell rifles or handguns privately across state border. An FFL can sell rifles across state borders but not handguns.
     
  3. nubus

    nubus Guest

    Your post refers to gun shows.
    If the show is in Washington a non-resident has no business selling guns.
    Unless they are an FFL of course, the ATF has a very strong opinion on this.
    Some state law is a bit vague in this area, but federal law is quite clear.
     
  4. Nwcid

    Nwcid Yakima and N of Spokane Well-Known Member

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    Why not?

    A private seller say from Portland could go to a Vancouver gun show to sell his gun and have it legally transfer though an FFL at the show........
     
  5. nubus

    nubus Guest

    That would be legal, but I would not be walking around a OR gun show with a gun for sale and a WA ID. Kinda pushing the envelope of what's legal. And I was referring to a vendor with a table, which if transferred through an FFL would still be legal. But I would be cautious about displaying firearms out of state for sale without being the FFL holder yourself. The ATF seems to have funny view of intent.
     
  6. Kimber Custom

    Kimber Custom Vancouver, WA Bronze Vendor Bronze Vendor

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    OR has legislation that requires a background check for all sales (including private party sales) at gun shows.

    WA has not 'closed the gun show loophole' so you arn't required to ask for ID or do a background check.

    The GCA of 1968 (federal law) section 922 under unlawful acts:
    (5) for any person (other than a licensed
    importer, licensed manufacturer,
    licensed dealer, or licensed
    8
    collector) to transfer, sell, trade, give,
    transport, or deliver any firearm to any
    person (other than a licensed importer,
    licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer,
    or licensed collector) who the transferor
    knows or has reasonable cause to believe
    does not reside in
    (or if the person
    is a corporation or other business entity,
    does not maintain a place of business
    in) the State in which the
    transferor resides;


    Knows or has reasonable cause to believe is the key phrase here.

    Your location is listed as Renton. I think it's reasonable to assume that people going to a local (to Renton) gun show are WA residents and you would be allowed to make the sale. A Vancouver show has a higher probablility of having OR residents so things get fuzzier but still there is no mandate that says I have to look at your ID.

    I do think it is prudant to ask for ID but they law does not state you have to.
     
  7. CIPuyleart

    CIPuyleart La Center, WA Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    Based on that wording, technically an OR seller could sell to an OR buyer even if they were both at a Washington show. Of course, I think it makes it pretty clear the responsibility and/or risk falls on the seller to be operating on the right side of the law (which would include being up front about their own state of residence and possibly having an appropriate FFL prepared to do the transfer if selling at a show out of their own state).
     
  8. enjr4

    enjr4 Renton, WA Active Member

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    I guess my main question was, "Do I have any responsibility to know the residence of someone (private seller) offering a gun for sale at a WA gun show?" You know when you are at a show there are always folks walking around with guns for sale. So I am at the show and a resident of the state where the show is held (in my case WA), with proper ID and all that, and this person has a gun I like, what is my responsibility in the transaction?
    Ed
     
  9. CIPuyleart

    CIPuyleart La Center, WA Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    In my mind (but ATF may see differently), as the buyer, it is not my responsibility to make that inquiry. And in a non-"border" city, I'd probably not be too concerned about the possibility.

    Of course, being the sort of person I am, if I were at a show in a "border" city like Vancouver or Portland, if the seller didn't ask me, I would probably inquire just to be sure.
     
  10. joeroket

    joeroket Everett,Wa. Active Member

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    Actually a resident of another state can purchase long guns only in Wa.

    RCW 9.41.124: Purchasing by nonresidents.
     
  11. Kimber Custom

    Kimber Custom Vancouver, WA Bronze Vendor Bronze Vendor

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    Do whatever you want to do but the law (federal) states that a non resident sale must go through an FFL.

    In the case of long guns the FFL may be in either state.

    In the case of pistols the FFL must be in the buyers state and the seller either has to bring it to the FFL or have it shipped to the FFL.

    In either case a FFL is required (again, by federal law)
     
  12. Kimber Custom

    Kimber Custom Vancouver, WA Bronze Vendor Bronze Vendor

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    No. Unless they are wearing a badge that says I'm an Oregonian or you have to go out to their car to get accessories out of the trunk and you see OR plates.
     
  13. Nwcid

    Nwcid Yakima and N of Spokane Well-Known Member

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    You MIGHT want to read up on the highlighted red section............. Kimber Custom is spot on with his info.


    RCW 9.41.124
    Purchasing by nonresidents.

    Residents of a state other than Washington may purchase rifles and shotguns in Washington: PROVIDED, That such residents conform to the applicable provisions of the federal Gun Control Act of 1968, Title IV, Pub. L. 90-351 as administered by the United States secretary of the treasury: AND PROVIDED FURTHER, That such residents are eligible to purchase or possess such weapons in Washington and in the state in which such persons reside.
     
  14. taylor

    taylor Willamette Valley Well-Known Member

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    I'm curious, you guys who shop at Washington Gun Shows, When you decide to buy a gun what has the experience been? have sellers just taken your money, said thanks and thats it? or did they ask for ID and do the background check?
     
  15. enjr4

    enjr4 Renton, WA Active Member

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    At the gun shows I have attended, if the seller is a private party (not a dealer) they will ask for ID, a CPL and your money. You don't actually need the CPL, but they usually ask for it to give them a warm fuzzy that you are a WA resident and eligable to own a handgun. If they are an FFL dealer you go through the whole instant check process.

    At Washington Arms Collectors shows you have to be a WAC member to buy at the show, to be a member you have to pass a FBI background check.
    Ed
     
  16. nubus

    nubus Guest

    In Washington there is no requirement for a BG check.
    I always verify ID and have declined sales to OR residents.
    I ask if they are a felon and if it is legal to own the firearm.
    That meets the due course needed for personal sales.
    Some shows (WAC) require you to be a member to buy a gun.
    Membership requires a current CPL or a BG check.
     
  17. taylor

    taylor Willamette Valley Well-Known Member

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    Is a CPL like a Concealed Handgun Permit here in Oregon?
     
  18. CIPuyleart

    CIPuyleart La Center, WA Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    Yes - CPL is WA (Concealed Pistol License), CHL is OR (Concealed Handgun License).
    At least that what is says on mine.
     
  19. 009

    009 Jellystone road sw Member

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    here in wa. they used to be called a concealed weapons permit. (yrs. ago)
     
  20. Blitzkrieg

    Blitzkrieg WA Well-Known Member

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    That was when we could pack long guns as well. Just another squeeze on our liberties by those who actually do hate our freedoms