Gun Registration

[SquatchWorks]

Ok,

I keep hearing my friend say he will not buy a gun unless it is a FTF deal, and wont buy the gun, if it must be registered...

He is afraid the "Man" will come after him and take them one day.

I know about BATFE background checks, and Local police background checks, but does the gun actually get "Registered" to your name? and If so is there a database to look up and see what guns I own? I must have 50 firearms in my name that I no longer have, (i have a bill of sale for each) but still...


So what's the truth?? Do Firearms stay in a persons name??
(Only Facts)

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[Randini]

there is a Black SUV parked across the street from you, they are watching.

 

[Grizzly_A]

There are several databases, and they register the gun in your name along with the serial #s, when you first purchase it. The state (OR in this case) keeps that information for 5 years and then they "supposably" discard it. If you report the gun stolen and then they log the serial number in another database for lookup should it turn up later.

If you sell the gun, then it's good to get a bill of sale in case the police come knocking on your door saying that your gun was used in a crime.

If they weren't registering the gun to your name upon purchase they wouldn't require the vendor give them the model and serial # of the gun along with your personal information.

I think your friend is exercising his right to purchase FTF and as long as he's legally allowed to purchase firearms, I support it. Now if only we could do the same thing across state lines. Seems like every gun I want is for sale across the river.

 

[SquatchWorks]

there is a Black SUV parked across the street from you, they are watching.

They drove off, when I went to say hi... Wierd

 

[raindog]

There are several databases, and they register the gun in your name along with the serial #s, when you first purchase it.

I've never liked the phrase "register". Compare it to registering a car. When you buy a car, you register it. If you sell it to me, I have to register it. If I move to Alaska, I have to register it there. I can't own it unless it's registered. Etc. - not true for firearms. At least in Oregon - California is quite a different story.

Your 4473 stays with the dealer, unless the dealer goes out of business or surrenders his FFL, and then it goes to the ATF archives. The OSP background check info is retained, but not forever - and i didn't think it was as long as 5 years. My understanding is that in other states it's retained for a lot less (typically only long enough to satisfy any "you can only buy 1 gun a month" laws some states have).

If the gun is used in a crime, I imagine 90% of the time it's pretty obvious who used it. If not, the police can trace it - manufacturer reports the distributor who reports the dealer who can pull the 4473. But it's not very valuable because anyone can sell FTF. There is no legal requirement to obtain a bill of sale or verify any info about the purchaser.

Honestly, if the police came to me and asked me about a gun I sold 10 years ago, I don't know that I could be much help to them.

 

[Gunner3456]

Good thread. I'm waiting for a couple of our FFL's to weigh in on this. I've always preferred the FTF because if there ever becomes a time for a gun confiscation...

The last two guns I bought FTF the sellers didn't even ask for paperwork. They just glanced at my D/L and CCW.

I will and do buy about 1/2 of my guns from dealers, but I have enough unregistered guns now that I could lose a few if the zombies come.

If the above statements are true that paperwork isn't sent to the gov't and are destroyed in 5 years, I'd be even happier to buy from dealers.

 

[PBinWA]

If people would start selling the exact guns I wanted then I would buy more FTF.

As a Canadian who has lived through the progressive gun registry-confiscation thing, I can't emphasize how important it is to not register anything you don't have to.

Unfortunately, I keep losing guns when I take them out in my boat over deep lakes. I hate it when that happens.

 

[56kninja]

Why would he be afraid?

If he is afraid of the man coming to take it, then he won't lose much when they do. Because he doesn't have one. If he's legally qualified to own one, what's the risk?

As far as I understand it.. the most the government has is a record of sale/transfer of the firearm from the FFL to you. It's not really registered. But, if they want to find out if you owned a certain gun, they can find out. There is a paper trail.

You can get around that too I believe. A CHL holder can probably comment on this better than I can. But I have heard that at least in some places, if you hold a CHL, the dealers can just sell you a gun w/o paper work.

Please correct me if I'm wrong on that.

 

[SheepDog223]

I've never liked the phrase "register". Compare it to registering a car. When you buy a car, you register it. If you sell it to me, I have to register it. If I move to Alaska, I have to register it there. I can't own it unless it's registered. Etc. - not true for firearms. At least in Oregon - California is quite a different story.

Your 4473 stays with the dealer, unless the dealer goes out of business or surrenders his FFL, and then it goes to the ATF archives. The OSP background check info is retained, but not forever - and i didn't think it was as long as 5 years. My understanding is that in other states it's retained for a lot less (typically only long enough to satisfy any "you can only buy 1 gun a month" laws some states have).

If the gun is used in a crime, I imagine 90% of the time it's pretty obvious who used it. If not, the police can trace it - manufacturer reports the distributor who reports the dealer who can pull the 4473. But it's not very valuable because anyone can sell FTF. There is no legal requirement to obtain a bill of sale or verify any info about the purchaser.

Honestly, if the police came to me and asked me about a gun I sold 10 years ago, I don't know that I could be much help to them.

This has my vote for best answer.

 

[wayoutwest]

Why would he be afraid?

If he is afraid of the man coming to take it, then he won't lose much when they do. Because he doesn't have one. If he's legally qualified to own one, what's the risk?

As far as I understand it.. the most the government has is a record of sale/transfer of the firearm from the FFL to you. It's not really registered. But, if they want to find out if you owned a certain gun, they can find out. There is a paper trail.

You can get around that too I believe. A CHL holder can probably comment on this better than I can. But I have heard that at least in some places, if you hold a CHL, the dealers can just sell you a gun w/o paper work.

Please correct me if I'm wrong on that.

Never heard this before....highly doubt it, because the FFL is still required to account for his inventory

 

[raindog]

Never heard this before....highly doubt it, because the FFL is still required to account for his inventory

Some relevant info:

http://forums.gunbroker.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=274067


Having a CHL gives you some benefits in some states, but in no state does it bypass a 4473. State law vs. Federal.

 

[beararms5000]

I think the primary CPL benefit when buying from a dealer is that most states with waiting limits wave them for people who already have a CPL. This is the case in WA at least and has allowed me to go from the decision to purchase to walking out the door within about 10 minutes instead of however many days it's supposed to be. Regardless, all the paperwork still gets filled out.

 

[22many]

I thought guns didnt have to be registered. You just payed for your background check and the reason they get the serial number was for the FFL to hold. It doesnt actually get sent to the goverment. This is what I heard, correct me if Im wrong?

 

[tionico]

Buying a gun from a FFL dealer, the BATF form (yellow one) gets filled out by the dealer, Washington dealers call FBI directly get the proceed/deny code. If proceed, and a long gun, deal is closed, FFL Dealer files HIS copy of yellow form, must keep 20 years, surrender to BATF when closing business. BATF keeps them somewhere..... FBI destroys their record within 24-48 hours. In Oregon, the State Police call the FBI for you, THEY keep their records for some time (someone said 5 years, likely correct), FBI still destroys their copy 24-48 hours. As far as I've been able to learn so far, Oregon does keep their record, but (at this point..... subject to change) they do not maintain a searchable database. In other words, can't look YOUR name up to see what you own, nor can look up serial number to see who owns it.

Handguns, yellow FFL form, same story. In Washington, the white form also gets filled out, three copies. One to FFL dealer's file, with the federal form. Two, to the county sheriff/police chief, they do SOMETHING with it. Three, to the State Department of LIcensing, again, they keep it (indefinitely, I believe) but, and again, so far, subject to change, it does not comprise a searchable database.

If one has a CPL, that number is recorded on the white form in lieu of the sheriff's proceed code, no waiting period or call to sheriff, buyer can walk out with the weapon once the shop is paid. Transfers from out of state through a FFL dealer work the same way. Paperwork MUST be completed, even with CPL, for handgun sales through dealers. Long guns still require FBI background check, I believe.

There is no requirement, nor any prohibition, in Washington in regards FtF sales. Money goes one way, hardware goes the other. Only the deal MUST take place between residents of the same state ONLY.

How Oregon handles handgun sales, I am not certain, as, being handguns, I am not allowed to buy them south of the river as long as I live north of it. A clear violation of the Constitution, on at least two ammendments.... but that's present law. And the Federal Government do not seem to care one whit they are in violation of it.

 

[PBinWA]

There is no requirement, nor any prohibition, in Washington in regards FtF sales. Money goes one way, hardware goes the other. Only the deal MUST take place between residents of the same state ONLY.

Good point. It always annoys me when I see people in WA wanting to see a concealed permit before doing a FTF. This is just one of those things that shows how progressive gun control works. Over time people drop their guard and before you know it there is a law on the books and no one is complaining.

Be vigilant - gun control is not that far away from gun confiscation.

 

[TonsOfOregonBrass]

I just got my FFL, so i don't have a lot of experience. OSP keeps a record for a while, but according to the ATF agent it isn't used for tracking. When a firearm is used in a crime they go to the manufacturer, then to the distributor, then to the FFL who sold it. the FFL log book is what is used to track down where a gun went. After you bought it there is no tracking if you don't want there to be. You could easily have sold it to Johnathon Miller, or Mike Jones. There isn't a mechanism in place to track it from the original purchaser. If you were a suspect in a crime and it was tracked that you bought the gun from a dealer then you are in trouble. If it was for confiscation there is no tracking. like it was said, "i lost it in a bird hunting accident in a lake." Current laws and systems do not lend themselves to confiscation. there are too many guns that have been sold without record.

 

[coctailer]

Buying a gun from a FFL dealer, the BATF form (yellow one) gets filled out by the dealer, Washington dealers call FBI directly get the proceed/deny code. If proceed, and a long gun, deal is closed, FFL Dealer files HIS copy of yellow form, must keep 20 years, surrender to BATF when closing business. BATF keeps them somewhere..... FBI destroys their record within 24-48 hours. In Oregon, the State Police call the FBI for you, THEY keep their records for some time (someone said 5 years, likely correct), FBI still destroys their copy 24-48 hours. As far as I've been able to learn so far, Oregon does keep their record, but (at this point..... subject to change) they do not maintain a searchable database. In other words, can't look YOUR name up to see what you own, nor can look up serial number to see who owns it.

When the ATF did my compliance inspection last October, they showed me a list of my customers that had bought from me over the years.

I can't remember if the firearm info was on there...........

This was on my Oregon FFL. I don't think they had any info on the WA FFL.

 

[PBinWA]

Current laws and systems do not lend themselves to confiscation. there are too many guns that have been sold without record.

We all need to keep it that way!

 

[tionico]

Federal gun laws prohibit a seller to sell to someone unless there is no "reasonable grounds" to believe that buyer is in the prohibited class of citizens... non-resident of same state, convicted felon, under warrant, etc. Asking to see a CPL confirms that the buyer was not, at the time of getting that permit, in any of those classes.

There is no requirement to prove I am NOT in those classes.. my word is sufficient. IF the seller has some reason to believe (he's your brother in law and remembers that trip downtown on the Domestic Violence rap four years ago.... saw your picture on the WANTED sheet at the Post Office, etc) you are in that class, and sells anyway, HE is in deep brown stuff, as is the buyer.

In case of later trouble on the sale of THAT weapon, and the coppers come round asking pointed questions, being able to say "he showed me a CPL and driving license for Washington State" will put an end to further questioning.

While not necessary in any way, even to show state issued ID, some insist... and, as you stated, we are thereby following along with the "guns are evil and suspect and no one should easily own them" line of stinkin thinkin oozing down from the government.

The simple statement that the buyer is not in a prohibited class, and can lawfully possess that weapon, is all the law requires. anything further is playing into the hands of the Brady mob.

 

[sinco54]

My thing is really who cares? If its that big of an issue that you think the man is gonna come take yo stuff and NEED a weapon you see at an dealer when ya get home, write a bill of sale to John Somebody.. If youre willing to Lie to the gubment to hide your weapons in the first place writing a bogus BOS should be no biggie for you.. DeeeeDUHdeeeee