Gun Ownership + Medical Marijuana Use: Is it legal?

[Trlsmn]

Archaic: of, relating to, or characteristic of an earlier or more primitive time

Yes, we are entitled to our own views. My decisions are based in real life. I have seen lives ruined from what some do not call a gateway drug. Nobody can tell me that it's not. I've seen it. I'm glad though that my views are considered classic, possibly even conservative. Fine with me.

The debate goes on and on about why overlook a natural plant that eases minor pain. I cannot though in any way say that marijuana can and ever will have the pain relieving abilities of vicodin or oxy.

If we throw the 'same abilities' clause out the window we are left with what? A plant that you smoke which produces euphoria.

Let's look at Heroin. Heroin is an opiate. It's also similar to percoset, morphine, and if your allergic to the natural ones you can try darvocet (simulated opiate). Why don't we allow medical heroin as well? Try to get that one passed... You won't see fields of poppy flowers grown in back yards.

Common sense would say: "Well it alters ones mind and impairs their ability to function properly in society." Anything that alters the mind can be a hazard to another person.

I do believe that this has remained on topic.

For one to effectively judge within themselves if they believe that MM should be allowed they must look at benefits and costs (monetarily, psychologically, and physically).

In today's time: 2010 there are too many "gray" areas where there is no absolute right and wrong. Everything is based upon interpretation. We are turning into a relativist society where soon "everything will be permissible" because we are going further and further way from the absolute view of right and wrong.

In my opinion if these "everything will be permissible" things don't have any effect on anyone but myself, no one but I has the right to take them away from me! I want to be the one that makes the choice, not a nanny government or religious dogma.

I will get off my soap box now.

And do you feel the same way about alcohol?

 

[Member 5605]

Yes: In one getting drunk

No: in relaxation (1-2 drinks?)
I think that one beer or equivalent can help to relax somebody after a stressful day.

I don't think that prohibition should have existed. Now keep in mind that I am one of a minute few in my generation who believe this way.

 

[The B]

better or worse than one hit off the bong?

i think you're a little clueless on this subject, dyj.

 

[ZachS]

Yep.... there are definitely some drugs out there that are or can be dangerous to use recreationally. A few obvious examples include heroin, amphetamines, and alcohol.


Cannabis isn't.

 

[willseeker]

Yes: In one getting drunk

No: in relaxation (1-2 drinks?)
I think that one beer or equivalent can help to relax somebody after a stressful day.

I don't think that prohibition should have existed. Now keep in mind that I am one of a minute few in my generation who believe this way.

I have no idea how old you are...I'm in my 50s'. And one thing I've learned, after 1 or 2 drinks of alcohol, my switch to full rage is in reach. Put a gun in my hand and all bets are off...well maybe not...it would be a sure bet that I'm in prison.

I don't drink anymore, it's too dangerous. I'll bet though if I smoked some ganga, you couldn't piss me off with a stick.

Me thinks again though we are working on the wrong end of the problem...it ain't the marijuana that's the issue (although it is in this thread). There's hundreds of substances that need attention more than pot.

However, weed and guns...alcohol and guns...it's none of governments business...ain't no business but your own!

Regards,
Will

 

[willseeker]

Oh Heck! I might as well spill the beans...our founding fathers grew hemp!

...and they sure as heck had guns!



Will

 

[ZachS]

Oh Heck! I might as well spill the beans...our founding fathers grew hemp!

...and they sure as heck had guns!



Will

Lest we forget, they also made booze!

 

[Member 5605]

i think you're a little clueless on this subject, dyj.

That's a great attitude to have. Call somebody clueless because they diametrically oppose you on a subject.

I have no idea how old you are..

I am 28 years of age. I've done more things in my life than a lot of people. I've been through meth, coke, crank, and alcohol addictions, and yes.. the green stuff.
============================

What can really piss me off more than anything is being called clueless due to my age and views. That's bullbubblegum.

IMO: this all stays relevant to the topic at hand.
Should one who uses legally/illegally mind/body altering substances be allowed to legally purchase firearms? (from the Federal viewpoint)

 

[The B]

That's a great attitude to have. Call somebody clueless because they diametrically oppose you on a subject.



I am 28 years of age. I've done more things in my life than a lot of people. I've been through meth, coke, crank, and alcohol addictions, and yes.. the green stuff.
============================

What can really piss me off more than anything is being called clueless due to my age and views. That's bullbubblegum.

IMO: this all stays relevant to the topic at hand.
Should one who uses legally/illegally mind/body altering substances be allowed to legally purchase firearms? (from the Federal viewpoint)

why should we be the least bit interested in any kind of "federal viewpoint?" we're not federal- we're private citizens, supposedly free in peaceful actions in the pursuit of life, liberty and happiness. to answer the question- i don't give a flying F how people exercise their rights, so long as they don't harm others. someone stoned off his *** shouldn't handle firearms- but i'd rather have someone stoned handling them than someone who's drunk. anybody with a brain would.

i didn't call you "clueless," i said "i think you're a little clueless on this subject," because you somehow think a little alcohol is less harmful than a little marijuana. if you had a clue, on this topic, you'd know that marijuana (and remember you're talking to someone who doesn't use, nor condones the use of, marijuana), in any form or level of ingestion, is vastly safer for the individual and has less social impact than alcohol. i'd rather people sit around and smoke bags and bags of weed than drink "a couple beers."

 

[Member 5605]

I guess we disagree.

 

[tionico]

Yup.. end the war on drugs altogether, decriminalise them all, set up a taxation structure similar to that of alcohol (as in California, not Oregon/Washington, where the stupid state gobbermunt has gone into the retail trade selling alcohol).... end of back alley deals, high markups due to the "risk factor", and the entire underworld pushing the junk.
Continue to make it illegal to drive, operate machinery, etc, under the influence.... and give employers the option of continuing testing and firing users. Certain drugs definitely limit the productivity and reliability of workers... and in some jobs that would be critical.

But to debar the use of arms to an occasional user? Nonsense. But then, not enough states have passed weed nullification/interposition laws. Each state should do so, then reserve the right to overlook drug use as seems fitting when considering a CWP.

 

[MountainBear]

I don't know about the moral or ethical circumstances surrounding using recreational or medical marijuana and the use of guns. But I do know that if I were so inclined to indulge in any act that I could get in trouble for operating a motor vehicle while using (you can get a DUI for alcohol, illegal drugs, as well as prescription paid meds), I would certainly think twice about having any of my guns anywhere near me. Regardless of what you think marijuana does to you, its never a good idea to mix guns and ANY mental or physical ability diminishing substance. Legal, probably enough of a gray area to get away with it. Advisable? Not unless you really want to pay for the lawyers to prove your point...

 

[tionico]

The problem is by state standards MM users are lawful users, by Federal standards MM user are unlawful users. That form and the laws are Federal laws.


Now lets throw in a curve ball, the CHL program is a state law.

it changes nothing. Federal laws concerning drugs, alcohol, even firearms, are NOT within the clearly enumerated powers granted the Federal government by the COnstitution. It has been said, and proven often, that any unconstitutional law enacted by the Federal Government is null and void. The powers to regulate such things are reserved to the states, or to the people (10th Ammendment).

Thus, since the federal laws are unconstitutional, thus null and void, ticking the box NO in regards ILLEGAL use of drugs is legitimate. Thus one can accurately, honestly, and safely, avoid the entire issue.

 

[tionico]

I don't know about the moral or ethical circumstances surrounding using recreational or medical marijuana and the use of guns. But I do know that if I were so inclined to indulge in any act that I could get in trouble for operating a motor vehicle while using (you can get a DUI for alcohol, illegal drugs, as well as prescription paid meds), I would certainly think twice about having any of my guns anywhere near me. Regardless of what you think marijuana does to you, its never a good idea to mix guns and ANY mental or physical ability diminishing substance. Legal, probably enough of a gray area to get away with it. Advisable? Not unless you really want to pay for the lawyers to prove your point...

I would agree... with stipulations and exceptions. We all know we can drink ourselves blind staggering drunk, say, Saturday night, but my Monday Morning are sufficiently recovered to handle arms safely. I'd be the first to say "pick the bottle up, put the firearms away first", just like the car keys. I can also have one beer or a glass of wine with my tucker, and three hours later am fully capable (and legal) to handle the largest deadly weapon most of us own... the car. I can, at that point, also handle my smaller deadly weapon, my carry piece.

Change to weed, what changes? The mere fact that I have used the stuff within the past YEAR can debar me the use of arms, legally. THIS is a huge disparity, and nonsense. Sure, the habitual user, always bouncing about on another planet, oughtn't handle weapons. Of ANY size. But the occasional user, say a weekend chimney sort of user, should not be debarred his right to arms the rest of the week, once the main influence of the stuff is out of his system. THAT is the point.

 

[phathom]

"To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian Tribes"

now how the **** does a private citizen's desire to sit down a smoke a joint have any effect on interstate commerce, friend?

Because it is so widely available to grow by private citizens that the government has no control over the crops, such as with tobacco or over stills and breweries through regulation for alcohol. Basically they can't tax it because it grows so wildly and is easily cultivated just about anywhere they can't regulate it effectively and make money off of it.
Therefor it costs the government potential income. That is the basis of the Marijuana bans.
The government hasn't figured out how to get it's cut.

The debate goes on and on about why overlook a natural plant that eases minor pain. I cannot though in any way say that marijuana can and ever will have the pain relieving abilities of vicodin or oxy.

Let's look at Heroin. Heroin is an opiate. It's also similar to percoset, morphine, and if your allergic to the natural ones you can try darvocet (simulated opiate). Why don't we allow medical heroin as well? Try to get that one passed... You won't see fields of poppy flowers grown in back yards.

Common sense would say: "Well it alters ones mind and impairs their ability to function properly in society." Anything that alters the mind can be a hazard to another person.

The pain relieving qualities of Marijuana has been proven, also it does not tear up your liver like the legal narcotics as well as it is not addictive. It is even printed on the bottles of hydrocodone and the like that is addictive and to not stop taking it all at once. Many people are addicted to it who just has it for an operation once in their life.

They do have legal heroin, ever hear of methodone? They use it to treat heroin addictions and it is legal.

I agree about the last part there completely. Really anything could. **** with enough hot sauce or even hot enough peppers your body puts off natural morphine in your body making you have a drunken high feeling for a while, outlaw peppers now? Anything really can cause that, even water. It's just a matter of what they feel like outlawing and what ones they feel like taxing.

 

[safooma]

The pain relieving qualities of Marijuana has been proven, also it does not tear up your liver like the legal narcotics as well as it is not addictive. It is even printed on the bottles of hydrocodone and the like that is addictive and to not stop taking it all at once. Many people are addicted to it who just has it for an operation once in their life.

They do have legal heroin, ever hear of methodone? They use it to treat heroin addictions and it is legal.

I agree about the last part there completely. Really anything could. **** with enough hot sauce or even hot enough peppers your body puts off natural morphine in your body making you have a drunken high feeling for a while, outlaw peppers now? Anything really can cause that, even water. It's just a matter of what they feel like outlawing and what ones they feel like taxing.

Well said phathom. For me, marijuana lets me take LESS narcotics. And believe me narcotics are bad. In the last 10 months I stopped taking them 4 times--each time was horrible--physically sick, hot flashes, cold sweats, insomnia, depression--really fun stuff. And then there's the fact that heavy opiates(hydro morphones, morphine) give me nausea as well. Marijuana doesn't have any of these side effects/withdrawal symptoms. Granted I can't/don't use marijauna at work, but it is a god send at home. It's also true that marijuana doesn't work as well for serious pain relief as narcotics, but with chronic pain it's always a matter of the degree of pain...it's never really absent.

Marijauna is just another tool for dealing with the physical and mental realities that come with chronic pain. I am not a stoner or pot head, I go to work every day, pay taxes and have a family, but i realize that some do abuse the system, just like there are some that abuse the welfare system or any other.

 

[Trlsmn]

it changes nothing. Federal laws concerning drugs, alcohol, even firearms, are NOT within the clearly enumerated powers granted the Federal government by the COnstitution. It has been said, and proven often, that any unconstitutional law enacted by the Federal Government is null and void. The powers to regulate such things are reserved to the states, or to the people (10th Ammendment).

Thus, since the federal laws are unconstitutional, thus null and void, ticking the box NO in regards ILLEGAL use of drugs is legitimate. Thus one can accurately, honestly, and safely, avoid the entire issue.

Idealistically you are correct, in the real world you are incorrect as proven by the subject of this thread. Sorry I live in the real world where this guy ticked the "NO" box and still was turned down for an approved gun purchase.

 

[Blitzkrieg]

Form 4474 asks this question:

e. Are you an unlawful user of, or addicted to, marijuana, or any depressant, stimulant, or narcotic drug, or any other controlled substance?

If you answer yes, no sale. Under federal law you cannot even possess firearms if the answer is yes

Is it Constitutional? No, but that won't keep you out of Club Fed

 

[Konad]

It seems the key there is the world unlawful.

To which I answer no.

 

[Partsproduction]

We sure live in a liberal state during liberal times. I can't believe so many of you are sticking up for pot smokers.

I have a friend, we grew up together, three friends actually. We all did drugs, pot acid heroin. I quit all of it 30 plus years ago. One friend finally just quit drugs and alcohol a few years ago and is getting his life back to normal, at age 60. The third guy has never had a wife, only a few girl friends, he has had a good deal of trouble keeping a job because the *&^%%#@! shop owners have some weird idea about people being to work on time. His rented house was hard to get through because of all the crap laying all over, but I think he lives under bridges now.
Pot was his drug of choice. Year after year he just never rose to the levels his high IQ should have taken him.

You all can fool each other, but you can't fool me!