Gun ownership hits new low

[Grunwald]

Why do you assume that I don't feel the same about them, and have not read the Constitution? Your reply confuses me.

At any rate, I mainly joined to see what people were selling, get opinions on guns that I know nothing about (which is most of them thus far), and find places to shoot that won't ask me to pay a lot, because I don't have a lot to pay. So far I've been satisfied with all three, and I'm learning a lot about the subject that I came here for. So yes, I'm grateful this resource is here, regardless of what its users think of me!

Don't worry, we don't get into none firearms politics that heavily here and it is pretty civil for the most part. When it comes to firearms and political parties, it is not always the democrats who are passing restrictive laws. As I recall Bush Sr. signed some stuff that was not exactly 2nd amendment friendly.
Careful with your new found hobby, it can be awfully addictive.

 

[Misterbill]

Interesting to note that according to the Brady Bunch gun ownership is down when every single class I hold I turn away 2-7 people due to overcrowding and fill classes within days of posting them.

I just finished a Comprehensive Armed Defense Course with 6 women in it and turned away seven people from the filled 12-person class this month.

I also notice that everyone else doing training is filled to capacity.

Clearly we are outliers and everyone else in the country realizes that guns go BOOM all by themselves and randomly go on killing sprees without any human intervention.

 

[jvbutter]

Interesting to note that according to the Brady Bunch gun ownership is down when every single class I hold I turn away 2-7 people due to overcrowding and fill classes within days of posting them.

I just finished a Comprehensive Armed Defense Course with 6 women in it and turned away seven people from the filled 12-person class this month.

I also notice that everyone else doing training is filled to capacity...

now this can be in certain geographical locations of the US.... but I take this data as real numbers.

 

[Generator]

Why do you assume that I don't feel the same about them, and have not read the Constitution? Your reply confuses me.

At any rate, I mainly joined to see what people were selling, get opinions on guns that I know nothing about (which is most of them thus far), and find places to shoot that won't ask me to pay a lot, because I don't have a lot to pay. So far I've been satisfied with all three, and I'm learning a lot about the subject that I came here for. So yes, I'm grateful this resource is here, regardless of what its users think of me!

You just came out of the gate pretty defensive, not wanting to open a can of worms about stuff seems like you know it's not a popular opinion. AWB is something that most of us find very wrong.... Hey, maybe I'm wrong, that would be a good thing here. But it does sound like you won't mind compromising on your rights, personally I'm not a fan of that. But welcome aboard, you like guns and thats the only qualification to be here

 

[Stomper]

Why do you assume that I don't feel the same about them, and have not read the Constitution? Your reply confuses me.

At any rate, I mainly joined to see what people were selling, get opinions on guns that I know nothing about (which is most of them thus far), and find places to shoot that won't ask me to pay a lot, because I don't have a lot to pay. So far I've been satisfied with all three, and I'm learning a lot about the subject that I came here for. So yes, I'm grateful this resource is here, regardless of what its users think of me!

Atomkinder,

Welcome to the world of firearms (and the forums)! I share your interest/love in the appreciation of the mechanical engineering of firearms. They range from the simplest to "space shuttle" sophistication in design and materials used, all of them being ingenious IMHO.

At this point in your life while things around you are still "relatively good and safe" compared to places like Juarez, Cairo, Gaza, or Damascus (for instance), I can understand why you would have the outlook you have, but I suspect that would change if you found yourself in an "imminent danger" situation.

In a perfect world (which will NEVER happen) I wish we could ALL have the same "upbeat" outlook that you have, and view firearms simply as an entertaining hobby, but there are governments out there (including our own) that are full of people possessed with a "lust for power" and are bent on total control, and firearms ownership and a willingness to use them keeps them at bay for the time being.

I have no desire to attempt to "convert" your point of view, that may change in due time and in due course when you connect the all dots that these wonderful (great equalizing) machines are the "common person's" tool for entertainment (sporting use), putting food on the table, maintaining your personal safety, and maintaining your freedoms (if it came down to it).

I have found your posts to be pleasant and somewhat refreshing, as they're civil and enthusiastic. I would however encourage you to consider your thoughts about people you perceive as "paranoid". Yes there are some full-blown dopes around here, but there are plenty of us around that have used firearms in the course of military and LE duties, as well as in self-defense situations (and KNOW what these things are capable of) so we tend to "cling to our guns" and will "gnash our teeth" and the very prospect of someone coming along and deciding that, "we don't need them"... I would (and will) STRONGLY "beg" to differ.

Again, welcome to the forums, and please by all means enjoy yourself here!

 

[BroncoFan]

Why do you assume that I don't feel the same about them, and have not read the Constitution? Your reply confuses me.

At any rate, I mainly joined to see what people were selling, get opinions on guns that I know nothing about (which is most of them thus far), and find places to shoot that won't ask me to pay a lot, because I don't have a lot to pay. So far I've been satisfied with all three, and I'm learning a lot about the subject that I came here for. So yes, I'm grateful this resource is here, regardless of what its users think of me!

Atomkinder -
Not picking a fight but I've never had this opportunity to ask anyone that has held your pov. - Is there a line that can be crossed for you (ie., repeal of the second amendment)? What I'm saying is that the founder's foundational actions allow you to own guns for recreation, as a collector, etc. (which is great!), but I think it's safe to say that those purposes were pretty low on their "reasons for" list and would probably never stand the test of a challenge as a reason to keep a right (ie., gee, its nice to have but I don't "need" this "right"). I don't go out every time I buy a gun based on "this will protect me from xxxx, but by the same token a right cannot be given by the gov't and therefore cannot be taken away by the gov't.

Neither one of us should have to even justify a purchase (protection, collection, protection, etc. (except maybe with my wife) but I do believe I do have the responsibility to acknowledge, support and protect the foundational principals that ensure my rights (try buying your guns for recreation if you were a British subject-might not be so easy).

Of course in the same way if I abuse that right I have to expect an individual restriction or prohibition but does that justify restrictions or prohibitions for all? For me it all comes down to individual accountability - much is expected from those who have been given much. Love to have a reasoned response to this.
Welcome, btw.

 

[Atomkinder]

Apparently I have opened can of worms!

That said, I agree that no, we should never have to justify buying a firearm for its legality. The justification is that we are individuals and it is our preference to own or not own them. That is as far as it should ever go, in my opinion. I do support background checks and not allowing certain people to have them based on a verifiable history that suggests their propensity to use them in any way other than self-defense, feeding themselves (and/or families) or for "fun." Those restrictions are, of course, debatable. Unfortunately, I have no "party" that I support, and have never found anyone to be an adequate representation of what I want to see, so I usually find myself voting for (what I see as) the lesser of two evils. I would prefer a government that leaves me alone, but regulates business and external trade for the betterment of our environment, and provides education and health care (and I'm perfectly fine paying taxes for those things). I believe that an educated and healthy society is the only way to maintain anything akin to a real democracy. Other than that, they can go screw (no marriage restrictions, no drug war, etc.).

Generator: you're right, I did come out defensive. That was my fault for acting in a reactionary manner, and posting a six pack and a few whiskeys into the evening. Something I usually do my best to avoid.

Stomper: you're most likely correct about a mindset shift if I were in far worse circumstances, and I certainly don't begrudge those who ARE there their need for protection. As far as lust for power, I believe that generally comes with the financial backing to support it, and I find that most everyone in politics (certainly national politics) is guilty of that, on either side of the aisle. None of them are trustworthy, IMO (well maybe Bernie Sanders, then again I do have an affinity for Vermont's style of government). I also wish to make it clear that I was not calling anyone here paranoid, but it is a mindset I have encountered before, and one that usually makes itself known in rather loud ways from time to time (although I believe the most paranoid among us would never show it).

BroncoFan: I also agree that recreational use was a nonexistent purpose to the writers of the Constitution. Unfortunately, the line that could be crossed, hasn't even been reached yet. The "government" is already set on restricting much that I would like to do (or at least would see unrestricted), and has yet to do what I wish it WOULD, as well as doing things that I am vehemently opposed to with my tax dollars. I agree wholeheartedly with your support of individual accountability. As far as prohibitions, I am still undecided on that front. I do not know if fully automatic weapons are something should be legal or not, and I'm fairly certain that the general populous shouldn't have access to frag grenades and mortars.

I hope I've helped all three of you (and anyone reading) understand my position a little better, or at least understand ME a little better. I don't believe I fit in a box very well. I do believe in civilized discourse, because without it, we might find ourselves in need of our firearms far more frequently, and that's not something I wish for on any day.

 

[Trlsmn]

Hey Atomkinder thanks for taking the time to explain your position. I read all the posts after mine and felt a bit sorry that I may have inadvertently set off a bit of an avalanche. I hope my question didn't seem accusatory I just wanted to get a feel for what your position is. Thank you for the lengthy rebuttal to mine and everyone else's post.

And yes I am a Giger fan, this one is known as "The Birth Machine".

 

[Stomper]

Hey Atomkinder thanks for taking the time to explain your position. I read all the posts after mine and felt a bit sorry that I may have inadvertently set off a bit of an avalanche. I hope my question didn't seem accusatory I just wanted to get a feel for what your position is. Thank you for the lengthy rebuttal to mine and everyone else's post.

And yes I am a Giger fan, this one is known as "The Birth Machine".

I like Atomkinder, he's got more going for him than slogans and punditry!

Trlsmn... the birth machine? Is that (beautiful) piece representing the male/female "plumbing" combined you think?

BTW- That baby in the chamber holding up his middle finger about to be "launched"... that's me!

 

[ORHunter79]

I think you might have "miss-wrote" the title.

Are you sure you didn't mean to say, "Gun ownership hits new high"?

;-)

 

[jvbutter]

The latest I got acorss the email about the decline... so who do you believe....

Gun Ownership Skyrockets, While Violent Crime Drops...Again

Friday, May 27, 2011


This week, the FBI estimated that the number of violent crimes decreased 5.5 percent from 2009 to 2010, including a 4.4 percent decrease in the number of murders. Because the U.S. population increased during the period, the figures imply that the total violent crime per capita rate and the murder rate decreased more than six percent and five percent, respectively. Based upon the preliminary data, it appears that violent crime fell to a 37-year low and murder fell to a 47-year low. The FBI will report final figures for 2010 later this year.

We're repeating ourselves, but, as has been the case for quite a while, the decrease in crime coincided with an increase in the number of privately owned guns—particularly handguns and detachable magazine semi-automatic rifles. For example, Americans bought over 400,000 AR-15s in 2009, and trends in AR-15 sales over the last few years suggest a similar number for 2010.

 

[Misterbill]

now this can be in certain geographical locations of the US.... but I take this data as real numbers.

You need to assume that anything the VPC says is false until proven otherwise. Their track record on this stuff is very consistent. They lie like dogs.

Now, as to the report itself, in fact, it's a VPC report, which takes data from the GSS. The article, which is written by a board member of VPC (and if you don't think that's not biased I can't help you) states: Gun Ownership is down. In fact, when I checked the GSS site, gun ownership is around 44% of households. In the article, the author claims gun ownership is down. In fact, pistol ownership may or may not be down because the data from GSS is both self reported and we know that many people won't admit they have pistols. In places like NYC and Chicago, it's illegal. In other places people just don't want to admit it. Their refusal rate is .8% which seems very small to me.

From what I saw there is no statistical margin of error, and indeed VPC doesn't claim one. It looks very suspect to me, especially since gun stores all over the country have hardly been able to keep guns in stock since Obama was elected. We have ammo factories running 24/7/365 and there is STILL a shortage of ammo out there in many places.

Add to that that I came here from Massachusetts in October and have training contacts in about 8 states ranging from Mass. to Ohio as well as Washington State and they are all booked solid.

I don't trust anything VPC says unless it is THOROUGHLY sourced through a reputable third party. A compilation report from data gathered by GSS, with no links or specific referral to the specific data, compiled and written by the foremost gun-banning group in the country is, on it's face, highly suspect, and that's being generous. When it's VPC, which has a long history of being caught red-handed lying through it's teeth, distorting statistics etc, and yes, I call Bovine Scatology.

 

[The B]

my sample size is inconsequently low... but this is not what i'm seeing on the streetz. i know a lot of gun owners... i don't know ANY former gun owners, and i also know a dozen or two NEW gun owners. tactical/practical shooting it becoming more and more popular and main stream, mostly due to movies, video games and airsoft, and being anti-gun isn't necessarily cool anymore, so young people are picking it up.

i call BS and raise you $1.

 

[Grunwald]

my sample size is inconsequently low... but this is not what i'm seeing on the streetz. i know a lot of gun owners... i don't know ANY former gun owners, and i also know a dozen or two NEW gun owners. tactical/practical shooting it becoming more and more popular and main stream, mostly due to movies, video games and airsoft, and being anti-gun isn't necessarily cool anymore, so young people are picking it up.

i call BS and raise you $1.

What does Barbra Streisand have to do with anything? . And I seriously doubt that anyone here thinks she is worth a dollar.

 

[Stomper]

I'd buy that for a dollar!! The scarp weight from her schnoz alone would yeild 2,000% returns.... LMAO!!