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Gun owners have vested interest in opposing U.S. Syrian intervention

Discussion in 'Legal & Political Archive' started by U201491, Sep 8, 2013.

  1. U201491

    U201491 Well-Known Member

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    Gun owners have vested interest in opposing U.S. Syrian intervention - National gun rights | Examiner.com

    Gun owners have vested interest in opposing U.S. Syrian intervention


    David CodreaGun Rights Examiner
    September 8, 2013
    As the administration beats the war drums and works on a plan to share the blame by growing domestic and international support for the initiation of military force against Syria, the focus of those reporting on developments, and thus, those they are reporting it to, has been on everything but the likelihood of retaliation on American soil. Ditto for the government’s likely domestic response should that happen.

    Noting how two pressure cooker bombs at the Boston Marathon put large swaths of the city under what was effectively martial law, with innocent citizens being rousted from their homes by the equivalent of an occupation army, it’s not hard to envision a similar reaction an order of magnitude larger.

    Obama would have us believe that strikes can be limited, not to decapitate the Syrian regime, but to degrade its capabilities. The corollary to that is, he would have us believe any reaction to that will be limited and contained. The thing is, if you start throwing punches, you don’t get to define how the other side will respond. It stops being your call to determine how limited the push-back will be. Especially if the guy starting the fight is picking it with more than one adversary and his true target is no pushover.

    So what we see in preliminary responses to all the president’s face-saving noise is Iran threatening to rain down death on Israel and to attack regional U.S. interests. We see anti-Assad factions, who presumably should welcome U.S. intervention, envisioning their fighters invading and burning Washington, D.C. We see evidence of plans for jihadists to exploit the "soft belly" Mexican border and spread out to wherever they wish to strike for maximum effect, including psychological. And we see Russia allying its resources with the regime Obama wants to attack.

    We see, aside from Code Pink, whose bizarre behavior keeps respectable people from standing by their side, a reaction from the “progressives” akin to whistling with their hands in their pockets and looking everywhere but at the inconvenient truth. They don’t want the war, but it’s their guys leading the charge, so instead they resort to the old, familiar standby of changing the subject to George Bush and Iraq. The “real reporters/legitimate media” are in a quandary, because, useful adoring idiots that they are, they know they’re being badly abused but they still desperately love their man. Even Hollywood, which can never contain its loony leftist zealotry, just can’t seem to find its voice. When grouchy old Ed Asner and indignant old Mike Farrell stand down because they’re afraid of being perceived as “anti-black” (I kid you not), a celebrity revolt attracting bigger “stars” just ain’t about to happen.

    So what will happen if Obama, along with a wretchedly compromised Republican “leadership” -- lining up like fools to share in the blame if things blow up -- manages to work up the nerve to order the serious business of killing on his behalf to start?

    No one has a crystal ball. No doubt a narcissist in the White House would fantasize about Assad folding like a cheap suit, the Ayatollah raging in primitive impotence, Putin proving to be as gutless as he is occasionally shirtless, and garlands for the conquering hero at home and abroad. But reality has shown that we never can tell what the catalyst will be for (unintended?) consequences, even to the point of plunging the world into war. Who could have foreseen that a relatively obscure Austrian archduke getting offed by a Bosnian Serb nationalist would plunge the great powers into a conflict that would claim over 16 million dead, resulting in a treaty, that made an even larger conflict a few decades later, with 60 million dead, inevitable?

    That sounds way like overreaction, right? Hey, it’s not me talking the potential for first the region and then the “Homeland” to get nuked, it’s Lindsey Graham, who sits on the Senate Armed Services Committee, albeit he’s using that as his justification for giving Iranians fanatics awaiting the 12th Imam no choice but to capitulate to a culture they view as satanic.

    But that could never happen here, though, right? After all, we’re 21st Century America. Aside from a few flukes now and then, that happen to other people in other cities and that the rest of us only see on TV, we’re immune to the forces of history, aren’t we? We’re the land where the livin’s so easy that the snack-fed masses can afford to have trivial interests and short attention spans, and to focus those on the current freak-tongued celebrity slattern du jour, with just a bit of room left over to accommodate Simon Cowell’s “love child”.

    But if something does happen, say if those jihadists do manage to make their way across the well-traveled, well-known and curiously still-open cartel drug routes, and if they then fan out to join up with comrades in arms already inexplicably “legally” admitted into the country (and sustained here courtesy of plunder wrested from the private sector), what then? If their activities interrupt delivery of goods and services -- both market and government-provided -- for any length of time, it’s not hard to imagine consequential looting, riots and mayhem. Throw longstanding, suddenly unchecked demographic-based resentments and hatred into the mix, and a frenzied plea for government to do whatever it takes will be happily answered. It’s not like most will realize where the ginned-up divisiveness and enabling public policies that made destruction, misery and chaos inevitable originated.

    And what will those establishing “order” do then?

    Again, no one has a crystal ball. The best we can do is look to large civil disruptions of the recent past and extrapolate what would happen on a larger scale involving cities and locales all over the country. It is safe to assume though, that personally invested government officials who feel their power -- or more -- will have powerful incentives to regain control by any means necessary. Then factor in a properly terrified public largely willing to trade any and all freedoms for the perception of security. After all, many of our countrymen can’t even walk across a damn bridge anymore without surrendering the Fourth Amendment, and they do so thoughtlessly, casually, and what’s really scary, often gratefully.

    Does anyone believe in such a scenario, bearing in mind the heavy hand we saw in Watertown, that a broadly-imposed martial law situation would leave gun owners unmolested? Especially after being painted as domestic terror threats, as the fusion center/police militarization movement has done in its regional law enforcement training? It’s no accident that high profile training exercises tar the armed citizenry with a brush that conflates and demonizes them as domestic terrorists, rendering Americans who do not embrace a “monopoly of violence” as “insurrectionist” targets to be “neutralized”?

    Funny, how it would be politically incorrect and elicit howls of protest, were such “exercises” conducted with a culturally different domestic threat in mind. Bearing the potentials in mind, can you imagine how easy the public mood will be to manipulate if some of those jihadist border-crossers reenact Beslan at one of our “gun free zone” schools? With “assault weapons”?

    Does anyone think that the supposed “protections” enacted after Hurricane Katrina gun confiscation will hold up once the MRAP APCs roll into town and things take an extra-Constitutional turn, with extraordinary measures enacted under emergency powers and FISA courts headed by judges who reject an individual rights interpretation of the Second Amendment? Does anyone doubt there will be powerful incentives to treat civil liberties as luxuries for less desperate times?

    What is this, gun nut paranoia? Hey, I said I have no crystal ball. But you tell me how many Americans on a Sunday morning in June of 1914 would have scoffed and ridiculed as lunatic anyone suggesting that a shooting in Sarajevo would bring tragedy and disaster to their doorsteps half a world away, along with unprecedented death and destruction to “civilized” Europe and beyond. And now look at what our “leaders” are trying to get us into. On behalf of these guys. Who’s nuts here?

    There are things that not just gun owners, but all Americans can do to pull things back from the brink -- if they want to.

    Making sure your representative has signed Rep. Scott Rigell’s letter urging Obama to consult with Congress as per the War Powers Act is a start, but only a minimal one. Me, I’ll settle for nothing less than a case made, with irrefutable evidence proving a direct threat to the Republic that justifies a declaration of war. My litmus test is if I would be willing to risk sacrificing my own life. If the answer is “no,” I can’t morally support risking anyone else’s, and I’ve yet to hear the case for why I should die for this, or even what constitutes victory if we do start a war.

    Meanwhile, not satisfied with the “50 major sites” they originally identified for targeting, the White House is now expanding their ambitions -- funny how that works, and how they would have us believe they can just keep adding to the aggression with impunity and mortal enemies will just grin and bear it. With the Saudis urging us to do their dirty work, and with the European Union coming around to a bellicose point of view -- with due deference to United Nations permissions, of course -- it’s beginning to look more and more like this is something the powers behind the thrones want done, whether the rabble, who will fund and bleed for their expedition like it or not.

    Ironically, there is one person who is uniquely positioned to put the brakes on all that, almost effortlessly, and who has multiple political and economic incentives to do so. That man is Vladimir Putin, who warned the G20 summit that he’s serious about Syria.

    Putin has a chance to show how serous he is, assuming he’s not just making self-serving noises, and he knows it. He could assign select Russian foreign services personnel to be embedded as observers with likely targets -- those not under direct threat from rebel forces, naturally -- effectively acting as diplomatic shields. If he does that and refuses to remove them, Obama would be effectively checked from ordering missile launches. It is difficult under those conditions to see the president or anyone but that crazy McCain coot daring to initiate aggression.

    But we can’t count on that, nor should we. It’s not like the guy hasn’t been a ruthless KGB operative and iron-fisted autocrat, and it’s not like the Russkis have any kind of historical human rights record or are proven moral authorities on anything. Besides, as Americans, we need to rely on ourselves. That is, if we’re truly interested in keeping the U.S. out of Syria’s internal conflict and minimizing the potentials for escalation that could precipitate unparalleled disaster, globally and locally. That is, if we’d rather not be forced to choose obeying “emergency orders” or defying them.
     
  2. Netspirit

    Netspirit Bellevue, WA Active Member

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    The problem is Obama's promise to intervene if chemical weapons are used. Now the U.S. has to "save its face" and do something or risk a huge blow to our international credibility and diplomatic power.

    toon130323.jpg
     
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  3. KalamaMark

    KalamaMark Kalama Wa Well-Known Member

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    No problem.
    He promised he wasn't going after our guns, either.
    Send ammo and bodybags to Syria and let them fight it out without poking our nose in that tinderbox.
    I'm sick and tired of sending our boys and our dollars to distant sandboxes to fight tarbaby battles that aren't ours.
     
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  4. Netspirit

    Netspirit Bellevue, WA Active Member

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    How did you decide that this battle is not ours?

    The current Syrian regime is the closest - and only - ally to Iran, the only country in the region with an active Russian military base, etc. Changing that regime to a more loyal one could expand our political, economical and cultural influence over the entire region, create additional pressures on Iran. Plus it is a noble cause - provided they really gassed civilians.

    Nobody is talking about a long and expensive military operation with our troops on the ground. It could be a scenario similar to what happened in Lybia - the dictator was defeated by its own opposition after its military units had been bombed into the ground.

    The fact that Putin is fighting so hard to keep Assad in power should give you a hint that this is not just an intra-Syrian battle.
     
  5. DMax

    DMax Yamhill Well-Known Member

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    Let Allah sort it out.
     
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  6. KalamaMark

    KalamaMark Kalama Wa Well-Known Member

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    Simple.
    I decided.
    It was easy.
    You should try it.

    Just say NO.

    I'm fed up with spending my tax dollars to kill brown people in far away lands for reasons murky, undefined, and best articulated by a military industrial complex that has a vested interest in keeping us entangled.
     
  7. Netspirit

    Netspirit Bellevue, WA Active Member

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    ^ We should have said "NO" earlier - you know, before accepting free drinks at the bar, getting drunk and driven home, and undressed.

    It was probably Obama's fault, but we have given an ultimatum. We have been challenged as a nation. We must live up to our threats or be known as indecisive pussies that can be ignored.
     
  8. U201491

    U201491 Well-Known Member

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    It is all bullcrap.
    Aiding the alQuaida is about as idiotic as it can get.
    Let them do each other in. Not one of them is worth
    fighting for at this stage.
    This one is NOT a righteous fight !
    It is an Obum "gimme and help his alQuaida brotherhood" fight. Let him go there and handle it himself.
     
  9. RB87

    RB87 Oregon Active Member

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    All of your points basically show why it is a folly to get involved directly (I have no doubt we have assets in there already helping the rebels). Also, Libya is a destabilzed mess right now and its bled over into Mali. As for a noble cause, what the first 100k people killed in their civil war don't matter? Just the few poor souls who got gassed recently?
     
  10. billstaf

    billstaf Portland, Oregon Active Member

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    +1 Totally agree. We never seem to learn from our mistakes.
     
  11. AMProducts

    AMProducts Maple Valley, WA Jerk, Ammo Manufacturer Silver Supporter

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    There are a few problems here... First, Iran has plenty of allies, most of the same people who are lining up to support syria right now, that is russia and china. Also, firing off some missiles, dropping some bombs will have relatively little effect on the ground, if you want to have an effect, you put boots there. Otherwise you end up with the same mess that currently exists in libya, where NATO became a de-facto jihadist airforce. Without boots, you have no f-ing clue who you are helping. Any effect you have becomes at best ill defined.

    Further, at present Syria is reaping the whirlwind they sewed in Iraq, where syrians were crossing the border to blow up our boys who were there to try to restore some stability after saddam. Instead the syrians wanted to be weekend jihadists, came to iraq, planted bombs, shot at americans. Funny thing happened, they decided they liked shooting at people, so once there were no more americans to shoot at, they started shooting at Assad's government.

    Gas or no gas, if it was Assad's people pulling the trigger, I have no problems with a bunch of jihadists and the civilians they mingle with getting killed, it's not a tragedy, it's a statistic in my mind. However, what I think is more likely is a weapons depot got overrun, and the rebels found some chemical weapons, didn't know what they were and then used them on someone. I know for a fact this happened repeatedly in iraq, where the insurgents would take a chemical warhead and stuff the fuse hole full of semtex. However, since the chemical weapons in iraq were binary, you wouldn't get a chemical agent out, you would just get a lackluster explosion, and a messy toxic spill.

    Have you looked at a map recently? Syria is a lot closer to russia than it is here, and allowing it to become a chaosocracy/caliphate that close to russia (and that close to europe for that matter) is no good for anyone. Really what syria is currently is a jihad magnet, I'm ambivalent as to whether they get killed by chemical weapons or american hellfire missles the only good jihadi is a dead one.

    Further, the longer the syrian conflict goes on the better... that means Iran's chief ally in the middle east will be too busy to attack Israel, Hamas is busy fighting the jihadists (oh the irony!). This whole episode is a classic way that we can do nothing and win. The only people who are excited about doing anything about it are the idiots who have put their pride before good sense. If you open up your mouth and put your foot in it you don't save face by sticking the other foot in.

    The iranians will know we mean business once we have someone credible sitting in the oval office. Obama is a paper tiger on foreign affairs.
     
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  12. biggie24420

    biggie24420 Beaverton Oregon Well-Known Member

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    Taku and (deleted member) like this.
  13. Diamondback

    Diamondback A cold, wet green Hell Well-Known Member

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    Much as I don't like the idea of going to war, Assad-symp hackers have done gone and pissed me off, vandalizing not one but TWO sites I frequent--breaking in and deleting the entire server on one of my plane-modeler boards, and leaving a graffito all over GunRightsMedia. So, GRM members, it might be a good idea to run antimalware scans just in case...

    Let Assad and AQI kill each other, I say... but that doesn't mean we can't or shouldn't put BOTH their IT departments Out Of Business.
     
  14. Netspirit

    Netspirit Bellevue, WA Active Member

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    1246883354_evil_john_mccain.gif
     
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  15. U201491

    U201491 Well-Known Member

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    THAT PICTURE WOULD GIVE FRANKENSTEIN NIGHTMARES !
     
  16. Stomper

    Stomper Oceania Rising White Is The New Brown Silver Supporter

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    FYI- There is no "WE" in Obama.

    The Poser in Chief laid out this ultimatum, Obama is the one who has been challenged, OBAMA must live up to his threats, and BTW... Obama IS an indecisive puzzy (except for tearing down the USA) and SHOULD BE ignored.

    This has NEVER been about "we", it has ALWAYS been about "him"... He is NOT my President.
     
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  17. DMax

    DMax Yamhill Well-Known Member

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    That puszy thing comes from the top down lead by the puszy in chief.
     
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  18. Burt Gummer

    Burt Gummer Portland Completely Out of Ammo

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    Do we want to be the enforcers/stooges for the international banksters and power mongers while our nation goes down the tubes? The .0001% that benefit from war while everyone else suffers. If the answer is no, then no more bombing countries to install Rothschild central banks and protect the Petro dollar.

    If you support our tyranny 'over there' don't complain when it is 'over here' and they take your guns and put you in a box.
     
  19. Stomper

    Stomper Oceania Rising White Is The New Brown Silver Supporter

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    Box-schmox... At the point of a gun they'll put your azz to work "in the fields" day in and day out.

    They'll take your women and make them sex-slaves (the cute ones anyway) and make you watch as they have their way with them.

    Don't you dare complain when it happens because you voted for it with your eyes wide-shut, and I'll not lift a finger to help you. :)
     
  20. Caveman Jim

    Caveman Jim West of Oly Springer Slayer 2016 Volunteer

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    This will show the world that owebamma is a pussy community organizer and he has ZERO CREDIBILITY!!!! Just like we in America already know!!!