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Gun or die problem

Discussion in 'Ammunition & Reloading' started by IheartGUNS, Aug 27, 2012.

  1. IheartGUNS

    IheartGUNS WaCo Well-Known Member

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    Got a problem, but I figure I ask before spending any money. We're reloading 308 for the first time, so I made 5 sample rounds, checked oal, cleaned them up, and I use a dillon case gage to check if all is good, and it is... So, I chambered a round in my friends m1a, no problem, then I chambered a round in my other friends rifle(r700) and its a no go. All five rounds will chamber in the m1a, and all but 1, didn't in the r700. So, I grabbed a handful of empty cases, ran it through the die about 3-4 times, and checked to see if it'll chambers, and it all did. Is this a die problem? Btw, we're using lee dies.
     
  2. MarkAd

    MarkAd Port Orchard Well-Known Member

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    Hoe much of the loaded cartridge was not going on the 700.
    Try this:
    Expand the neck on an empty case to the point it holds the bullet snug, not as tight as making a round. Coat the bullet with a black marker seat the bullet using the press.
    Chamber the test round. Carefull extract the test round.Look for marks where the bullet touched the rifling as thed bullet was being ppushed back. Carefully measure the OAL. I bet the 700 is a bit shorter. A Bit being several thousands of an inch.
     
  3. k7grc

    k7grc Banks, Or Active Member

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    are you compressing the powder?

    or,

    when seating bullet you are swelling the case slightly.
     
  4. Nwcid

    Nwcid Yakima and N of Spokane Well-Known Member

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    Bet you are bulging the shoulder slightly when seating/crimping. Ask me how I know :paranoid:

    Try seating and then crimp in a different stage and see if that helps.

    Mark has a good point too.
     
  5. RVTECH

    RVTECH LaPine Well-Known Member

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    Are you using 'real' .308 brass or 7.62 Nato?
     
  6. mortre

    mortre Yelm, WA Active Member

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    I had that happen to me before. I needed to screw the sizing die in a hair further. I wasn't bumping the shoulder back far enough.

    Sent from my DROID3 using Tapatalk 2
     
  7. 2gr8dgs

    2gr8dgs oregon Active Member

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    Ditto
     
  8. AMProducts

    AMProducts Maple Valley, WA Jerk, Ammo Manufacturer Silver Supporter

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    As others have said, you're probably not setting the shoulder back far enough, and may need to move over to a small-base sizing die. I know small base dies have been the solution for many of my chambering issues.

    Also, the dillon case gauges are a bit optimistic in terms of the "fit" you get with them. I've seen rounds drop into dillon gauges that wouldn't chamber in any gun I've ever seen.
     
  9. Mikej

    Mikej Portland Gold Supporter Gold Supporter 2015 Volunteer 2016 Volunteer

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    I only do pistol.
    I found that one make of bullet has a longer straight portion to the shoulder than another. Some pistols have the riflings going closer to the chamber than others. As mentioned above, seat the bullet deeper, in small increments, (.002) at a time until the ammo chambers. On my pistols I remove the barrel and push the completed round into the barrel, if it falls out when tipped up I'm good to shoot.

    Be aware that SEATING THE BULLET DEEPER MAY AFFECT PRESSURES and ADJUST POWDER WEIGHT ACCORDINGLY. Or, find a different projectile with a lower shoulder that will keep you close to the stated COAL.

    Mike
     
  10. deadeye

    deadeye Albany,OR. Moderator Staff Member

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    Back off on the seating/crimp die maybe a quarter turn and adjust the seating depth portion again.
     
  11. sealine

    sealine Oregon Well-Known Member

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    I have an m1a and a rem700 and I have the same problem. Brass that is fired from my m1a won't chamber in the rem700 after reloaded. However, brass fired from the rem700 will chamber in the m1a after reloaded. Because of this, I keep the brass separate for each rifle.
     
  12. Throckmorton

    Throckmorton Florence,Ore ah gone Well-Known Member

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    is your Lee die a neck size die,or a full length sizing die.they make both as I recall.Neck szing does not bump the shoulder back and in a slightly tighter chameber the round won't slide in.
     
  13. deadshot2

    deadshot2 NW Quadrant WA State Well-Known Member

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    I'd start with MarkAd's suggestion first before doing much more. Take a loaded round that chambers well in the M1-A and rather than just mark up the bullet, mark the whole case with a sharpie. Then attempt to chamber it in the 700. Don't force it too much, just enough to mark up the black coating. Extract the round and look for bright spots all along the cartridge. Those at the ogive area will indicate too long an OAL for the throat in that rifle. Marking at the shoulder will indicate a headspace issue and you need to screw the sizing die a little more. Any shiny "ring" near the base of the cartridge will mean that the case will need to be Full Length Sized with a small based die. Most .308 dies don't size the case all the way to the entrance of the die, they have a slight taper that allows for the case to enter the die easier. Unfortunately some military weapons, and M1-A's, allow the case to expand in this area and it becomes a problem later on when then using it in a tighter chambered bolt action. Also can cause feed issues with the auto loaders.

    Try the markup of the case first. Will reveal the area of your problem which will then tell you what steps to take. Otherwise you can end up chasing your tail so much you'll disappear up your own "you know what".
     
  14. Darkker

    Darkker Mesa, Wa Active Member

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    Throck has a good question.
    Are you doing collet, or F/L dies?
    But you haven't given NEARLY ENOUGH INFORMATION.

    Ignore the NATO/SAAMI brass question, there is NO DIFFERENCE!!!

    WHO'S rifle are you loading for? IF you are using the collet dies, they ONLY work for THAT rifle.
    IF you are using the F/L dies, then it is not adjusted properly; OR the bullet is not seated deep enough for the OTHER chamber.

    M1a's are a military rifle, that typically have a "looser" chamber than many bolt guns.
     
  15. IheartGUNS

    IheartGUNS WaCo Well-Known Member

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    Tried this, and there is no evidence of the bullet touching the rifling. Also maybe I got it wrong, I can push the bolt fully forward, but I can't lock the bolt down.

    No, not compressing. And no swelling.

    Nope. I backed off the die 1 turn so that wouldn't happen.

    308 brass

    Sizing die is bottomed out.

    I may need to look into that small-base sizing die. Who makes them?

    Its backed off probably almost a full turn.



    Something we might have to consider...

    FL sizing die.

     
  16. noylj

    noylj high desert Active Member

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    Assuming the case gage is doing its job, and you can't chamber in a Rem 700, then the bullet is seated too long or the Rem 700 has a chamber that is out of spec slightly. The case gage is supposed to be tight, at chamber minimums. If not, it isn't worth the cost of using it as a boat anchor.
    Smoke or Magic-Marker the case and bullet, try to chamber, and when you pull the round, it will have scrapes where it and the chamber interfered. This will tell you exactly where the problem is.
     
  17. AMProducts

    AMProducts Maple Valley, WA Jerk, Ammo Manufacturer Silver Supporter

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    Most of the major die manufacturers make small base die sets. RCBS is still my favorite mfg for reloading dies, I wouldn't recommend the X-Die however.
     
  18. IheartGUNS

    IheartGUNS WaCo Well-Known Member

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    I did the marker thingy, and no scrapes on the case?!? Whats weird is that I mic'd a good case vs a case that won't chamber, and its pretty identical:huh: I measured case length the mouth, base pretty much top to bottom is identical...WHat gives?

    Whats wrong with the rcbs x die? I was thinking of getting one.
     
  19. motoman98

    motoman98 Gresham, OR Active Member

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    I load for an AR 10, HK 91 and Rem 700. I tend to load for the bolt guns as a separate reloading set up, with ammo more to fit the chamber/throat and for the semi autos as minimun spec rounds, for functionality.
     
  20. AMProducts

    AMProducts Maple Valley, WA Jerk, Ammo Manufacturer Silver Supporter

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    The X-die is very much a specialty tool... if you are cutting your cases to length and trying to maintain that length over the life of the cases it's a great feature, if you're shooting a semi-auto that's going to go out the door pretty quick.

    I have X-dies, I like them, but I also have 5 different sizing dies for .308 (FL, SB, Neck, X, and Bushing), it's a boutique tool and has it's uses, but I would not recommend it unless you're really "pushing it" on your reloads. The main reason: inserting a case that has not been trimmed to length will destroy the case and may damage the die.

    The normal "flow" of brass through my bench that involves the X-Die: small base size, trim, load, shoot, X-die small base, load, repeat. I also usually keep brass in lots, so I know what the trim-to length was (it's on the box) and will anneal the cases after 4 uses.