Gun Lost By Dealer

[bolus]

SO everyone keeps saying to report it stolen, was it really stolen. OP gave it to the FFL who sub'ed it out to the GS. GS got it back to the FFL who kept it, lost it, sold it, traded it away?? OP and the FFL were in a business relationship and this sounds like its a complete matter for the court. Now i'm not a lawyer or AFT agent but I don't see it as stolen.

OP how long has he had this gun? Any paperwork trail? How long have you been trying to get it back? Is he avoiding you/your contact?

If I brought my car to a dealer to get some rock chips fixed and then found out they sold it with a "whoops sorry" response, I'd be calling the police for a stolen vehicle.

I dont know what this dealer offered to make it right but so far I've heard nothing. So I'd consider that gun stolen.

 

[cigars]

SO everyone keeps saying to report it stolen, was it really stolen. OP gave it to the FFL who sub'ed it out to the GS. GS got it back to the FFL who kept it, lost it, sold it, traded it away?? OP and the FFL were in a business relationship and this sounds like its a complete matter for the court. Now i'm not a lawyer or AFT agent but I don't see it as stolen.

OP how long has he had this gun? Any paperwork trail? How long have you been trying to get it back? Is he avoiding you/your contact?

We are saying to report it as stolen because he seems to have no other recourse at the moment. He can wait all day for the situation to get resolved with some magical fairy fart dust (which is always nice) but this isn't Portlandia. The guy is getting the run around. A police report will get the ball rolling for him and will hopefully either have the weapon produced or fair compensation provided.

 

[coop44]

Report it to batf

 

[U8395279]

OP how long has he had this gun? Any paperwork trail? How long have you been trying to get it back? Is he avoiding you/your contact?

The OP never shared information about any sort of timeline or time frame regarding when all of this happened. About the only thing that is clear is that the FFL went out of business while he still had the shotgun.

That gives me the impression that the FFL very quickly went out of business.

That happened to a FFL local to me some years ago, that I had previously used many times for doing transfers. They gave me no explanation at all as to why they had suddenly got out of the gun business, but I later found out that the ATF had revoked their license due to violations.

 

[PBinWA]

Small claims court. Win judgement. File a lien.

 

[fredball]

If It's not in his bound book as to disposition and there is no 4473 then this guy is just a thief

 

[clearconscience]

SO everyone keeps saying to report it stolen, was it really stolen. OP gave it to the FFL who sub'ed it out to the GS. GS got it back to the FFL who kept it, lost it, sold it, traded it away?? OP and the FFL were in a business relationship and this sounds like its a complete matter for the court. Now i'm not a lawyer or AFT agent but I don't see it as stolen.

OP how long has he had this gun? Any paperwork trail? How long have you been trying to get it back? Is he avoiding you/your contact?

So if you let me borrow a lawn mower and I sell it for profit, it's not at that point stolen?

 

[wayoutwest]

If I brought my car to a dealer to get some rock chips fixed and then found out they sold it with a "whoops sorry" response, I'd be calling the police for a stolen vehicle.

I dont know what this dealer offered to make it right but so far I've heard nothing. So I'd consider that gun stolen.

So if you let me borrow a lawn mower and I sell it for profit, it's not at that point stolen?

No in these cases, you both agreed to the deal, car repairs or lawnmower, you both knowingly entered into a verbal contract with the other party. If they did something else with that property I think it comes back to being a civil matter between you and them and the courts. Now being a firearm the ATF may view it differently but I think its going to have to go to court.

 

[Norm0931]

If It's not in his bound book as to disposition and there is no 4473 then this guy is just a thief

If he went out of business he is required to send his logbooks and 4473s to the ATF for storage. He might not have them anymore.

 

[Martini_Up]

I just don't understand why the OP hasn't said who the dealer is.

 

[wired]

He probably wants to work with the guy to get his stuff back before he trashes the guy in public.

 

[U8395279]

Small claims court. Win judgement. File a lien.

That will not get his gun back, and collecting money would be most difficult.

I would not give up on getting the gun back, if I was in his shoes.

.

 

[Flopsweat]

That will not get his gun back, and collecting money would be most difficult.

I would not give up on getting the gun back, if I was in his shoes.

.

Seconded. It's about the extreme sentimental value of the gun, not about some dollar amount.

 

[U8395279]

No in these cases, you both agreed to the deal, car repairs or lawnmower, you both knowingly entered into a verbal contract with the other party. If they did something else with that property I think it comes back to being a civil matter between you and them and the courts. Now being a firearm the ATF may view it differently but I think its going to have to go to court.

I don't agree. Since when does a person bring their car into their dealer for repairs, and the dealer then sells it to someone else? I guess that many people do not know this, but theft of a firearm worth over $1,000 is First Degree Theft in Oregon: a Class C Felony.

Take a look:

ORS 164.055 - Theft in the first degree - 2015 Oregon Revised Statutes (http://www.oregonlaws.org/ors/164.055)

The OP really screwed himself by not getting any receipt. And how can he prove that a verbal contract existed? There probably are no witnesses to their conversation.

If the OP has the gun's serial number recorded, and has some detailed photos of the gun, he could prove that it is his. But what if he did not record the serial number? What if he has no pictures of the gun? How could he then prove that he is the rightful owner? There is no way that ATF can track ownership of a gun purchased 104 years ago. The ATF did not even exist back then.

.

 

[wired]

Verbal contracts are worth the paper they are written on.

 

[Norm0931]

There is no way that ATF can track ownership of a gun purchased 104 years ago. The ATF did not even exist back then.

Back in the good ole days...

 

[cdmontgo]

@David Edwards, what did you end up doing?